Another REALLY OLD Topper

[Garrett]

I seem to be on a lucky streak with acquiring these ancient beauties. This one is in the best condition I've seen for its type and age

Any help in dating this one is greatly appreciated

 

[Tiller]

All I can tell you is you have a real thing of beauty there :eusa_clap. One of these days I'm going to get off my butt and actually try to get a topper. It's a shame that there is practically no events where toppers are actually used here in the States, besides a wedding (and I'm not getting married... yet lol), or if I wanted to drive a buggy for tourist in NYC.

 

[Garrett]

I'm guessing this one is 1860's or earlier

 

[rlk]

1859 Manet Absinthe Drinker

Seems to have your shape,proportions and narrow ribbon.

By 1878:

Shorter, less flare at the top and wider ribbon

 

[dhermann1]

Could have belonged to Isembard Kingdom Brunel, designer of the Great Eastern, the 25,000 ton ship that laid the Atlantic cable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IKBrunelChains.jpg

 

[rlk]

Juste Pinaud trademark hat store

pre Stephen Stetson case:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Kr...kQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=richelieu pinaud&f=false

1805 Juste Pinaud at 87 Richelieu hat
http://www.antiquefirearms.com/pages/503.htm

At the 97 adress by 1848
http://books.google.com/books?id=FI...&cd=5#v=onepage&q=pinaud 97 richelieu&f=false

At 89 Richelieu by 1867
http://books.google.com/books?id=eS...&cd=7#v=onepage&q=pinaud 97 richelieu&f=false

97 Rue Richelieu Paris building looks intact check out Google Maps street view.

 

[Garrett]

For Comparison

Here are some shots of the other Topper I purchased last month which seems to be similiar in age if not older. We were able to confirm that this one was made prior to 1866 but it may be considerably older than that.

Unfortunately, it is not in the same decent condition as the topper just acquired

 

[Garrett]

Liner Insert

 

[Garrett]

pre Stephen Stetson case:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Kr...kQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=richelieu pinaud&f=false

1805 Juste Pinaud at 87 Richelieu hat
http://www.antiquefirearms.com/pages/503.htm

At the 97 adress by 1848
http://books.google.com/books?id=FI...&cd=5#v=onepage&q=pinaud 97 richelieu&f=false

At 89 Richelieu by 1867
http://books.google.com/books?id=eS...&cd=7#v=onepage&q=pinaud 97 richelieu&f=false

97 Rue Richelieu Paris building looks intact check out Google Maps street view.

Thanks to rlk we have determined the french topper was made between 1848-1867 as its liner is indicative of the firm working at the 97 address

Thanks Robert!

 

[filfoster]

Size is everything. sometimes...

Garrett: Good lord, how tall are those? My 7 1/2 inch tall one looks huge but these look towering!

 

[Garrett]

Garrett: Good lord, how tall are those? My 7 1/2 inch tall one looks huge but these look towering!

The french topper is 7 1/4" and the C.H. Garden Company topper is 7 1/2"

 

[rlk]

That sure is in fantastic condition. You have the most contenders for "oldest hat on the lounge". Are you raising funds for the new annex of your Hat Museum?

 

[Garrett]

That sure is in fantastic condition. You have the most contenders for "oldest hat on the lounge". Are you raising funds for the new annex of your Hat Museum?

I'm accepting donations

 

[Kaonashi]

Pardon my ignorance, but, actually, is there a place where you´re expected to wear a top hat??, I can only think of magicians and a wedding maybe, do people still wear these.. idk... at the opera or something like that?, don´t get me wrong, I´d really like to get one like these!! =D

 

[thecardigankid]

This type of topper probably dates no earlier than the 1860s. Alot of top hats that are pre 1860s dont have that little bit of flare at the top. That flare came into play in the 1860s when a new block came into play for making top hats.

Tim Bender would probably be able to tell you a more exact date on said hat.

 

[Garrett]

Not true, Cardigankid - There is plenty of evidence in paintings like the ones above as well as early daguerreotype photos to the contrary of your "No earlier than 1860's" claim.

You must also keep in mind that the two toppers depicted above have been damaged and bent in different spots that throw off the otherwise straight sided crown.

 

[rlk]

Not true, Cardigankid - There is plenty of evidence in paintings like the ones above as well as early daguerreotype photos to the contrary of your "No earlier than 1860's" claim.

You must also keep in mind that the two toppers depicted above have been damaged and bent in different spots that throw off the otherwise straight sided crown.

They both broaden gradually towards the top rather than a more severe curve(flare) just near the top edge. More a cone rather than a bell.

1855 Daguereotype

 

[filfoster]

Top hats

This type of topper probably dates no earlier than the 1860s. Alot of top hats that are pre 1860s dont have that little bit of flare at the top. That flare came into play in the 1860s when a new block came into play for making top hats.

Tim Bender would probably be able to tell you a more exact date on said hat.

I agree with Garrett on this one. I think these could be very early 1800's. See this book cited in another top hat thread on crown height here in the Lounge:
Top Hat: An Illustrated History of Its Styling and Manufacture

Nice to see Tim Bender ( www.benderhats.com) get a mention. He makes wonderful, fairly priced hats and has a great eye for detail. He copied the Seth Bullock hat from Deadwood and Clint Eastwood's 'Preacher' hat from Pale Rider perfectly for me a couple of years ago. What a nice guy.

 

[filfoster]

Size, etc

The french topper is 7 1/4" and the C.H. Garden Company topper is 7 1/2"

Garrett: Not to pester you, but what hat size (circumference) are these? I am just trying to account for how they look so much taller than other toppers. They are beautiful.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I am just trying to account for how they look so much taller than other toppers.

They look so much taller because they are so much taller.


Think Lincoln vs. Astaire.


.