All You Need to Know About Hat Etiquette

[Hurricane Jack]

one could wear that naked and still be dressed for the part.

If I should encounter a woman expressing an opinion similar to Karl's I would feel obligated to defer to her etiquette & wear my hat.

 

[FedOregon]

Sometimes there is no place to put your hat. A ball cap will sit flatly on your lap, but a fedora falls on the floor every time you lean forward to take a bite.

Would I eat in a 4 Star restaurant with my Homburg sitting atop my pate? Hell no. But MacDonalds, the local brew pub? Hell yes.

I told my wife I wanted to take a fedora to Ecuador. She advised against it. You don't want to stand out and someone would run up and steal it and be gone before you knew what happened. Good points. I follow the cues posted above by @KarlCrow. Do what others are doing in the joint.

Generally, I take my hat off in church, in the house or the homes of others, in businesses, etc, but otherwise it's usually only taken off if my coat is taken off.

If casual restaurants wanted men to remove their hats they would supply hat racks (or hat checks) along with the coat racks.

 

[hatsRme]

I do have one disagreement with something Steve has to say,


I personally cannot stand it to see somebody doing something like eating with a hat on. It just looks trashy. Doesn't matter if it's a ripped up old ballcap or a silk top hat. I think it looks trashy, and yes, I will silently judge you for it.

It seems to me that Steve's perspectives have allowed for the potential of some evolutionary changes, maybe not in actual hat wearing practices, but in societal reactions to, and acceptance of our behavior. Again, I think he's right.

He did say wearing a hat inside "might still be perceived by some as uncouth behavior," and, see, he was right! You "cannot stand" it... And, I don't disagree with you, Bushman! But, reading the "fine print" of his wording as quoted, he says "We may no longer ostracize people for their lack of etiquette, and perhaps that’s a good thing" Steve gives enough "wiggle room" in his writing by use of those non-committal words to allow for some of us to still cling to what we feel is still appropriate behavior. That's my interpretation, FWIW...

 

[moontheloon]

I find it odd to feel so strongly about something so completely benign ... especially when it is none of ones concern.
I believe in holding values and standards on yourself and letting others do whatever is comfortable for them.
Judging someone for something that is of no concern of yours is in my opinion a personal issue that isn't unlike some of the more ugly social issues that exist in this world.

 

[Bob Roberts]

LIVE AND LET LIVE. Endless discussion.
On and on and on...

 

[hatsRme]

I find it odd to feel so strongly about something so completely benign ... especially when it is none of ones concern.
I believe in holding values and standards on yourself and letting others do whatever is comfortable for them.
Judging someone for something that is of no concern of yours is in my opinion a personal issue that isn't unlike some of the more ugly social issues that exist in this world.

But, Moon... are you making a judgement about those who feel this way? We could be hitting a slippery slop! Yes, slop.

 

[moontheloon]

But, Moon... are you making a judgement about those who feel this way? We could be hitting a slippery slop! Yes, slop.

I'm not judging anyone ... just saying I find it odd to feel so strongly about something that is no concern of yours and has no bearing whatsoever on your particular personal situation.

if you let someone wearing a hat in a restaurant affect how much you enjoy your own dinner ... I find that extremely odd

 

[Bob Roberts]

"Celebrate Diversity."

 

[jlee562]

I'm really looking forward to any reactions or responses from our other younger members, too. I seem to recall @jlee562 had some positively interesting thoughts and interpretations of today's society where hat etiquette is concerned. And you weren't wrong, Jared!

This well-presented position could certainly do much to help us understand and possibly preserve some of the old ways, though.

Again, THANK YOU, STEVE TEMKIN!

Mr. Temkin sure has put a lot of thought into his take.

And I wouldn't say that I disagree with most of the general thrust, but I would differ on specifics.

The other caveat is that I happen to live in a city where different peoples' norms and mores are clashing all the time in some way or another, and that our idea of "normal" plays out on a larger spectrum than other places. In other words, if your indoors-hat is the part of your outfit that is offending someone in SF, you're probably the least controversial person in the room.

There definitely are parts of "courtesy and etiquette" that I personally find to be "old fashioned" to the point of absurdity.

Traditionally, this didn’t apply to women because a woman’s hat was regarded as ornamental fashion. Removing it might damage her coiffure—indeed, the hat may be integral to her hairstyle. Obviously, today, such attitudes appear outmoded, even ridiculous, and smack of sexism. That may be, but if you’re a man, I suspect leaving your hat on indoors is probably not an effective way to demonstrate your solidarity with feminist values.

If a hat for "ornamental fashion" is acceptable indoors for women, the gender-neutral rendering of this piece of "etiquette" is simply, 'if your hat is an integral part of your outfit, it's ok to leave it on indoors.'

I think most of us here fall into this category, otherwise the "what hat are you wearing today" thread would be really boring. Back in the day when most men had one main hat, and maybe a dress hat, the hat was far more utilitarian. I think of my hats as a part of my outfit and deliberately pick them.

But we may believe that at our peril. The so-called “old-fashioned rules” of courtesy and etiquette were not arbitrarily snatched out of nowhere, but spawn from innate aspects of social interaction and serve, in part, to make those interactions feel safe and predictable. (One could argue that etiquette evolved from biological imperatives inherent in our instincts for survival.) It also ensures that no one “privatizes” our shared spaces with purely self-serving behaviour at everyone else’s expense.

(bold added for emphasis)

As a former academic of the social sciences, I find this a remarkable claim (not in a good way) which is immediately suspect. At a minimum I would need to see some sort of evidence which backs this assertion. But "etiquette" is a human, social construction, and is not at all monolithic. It may be true that certain rules of etiquette are ultimately derived from "innate aspects of social interaction," but as a blanket statement, it doesn't pass the smell test.

The analogy I used in a past thread was slurping noodles. In the U.S., it's widely regarded to be rude or otherwise just somewhat uncouth to slurp a long noodle into your mouth. In Asia, that's just how you eat noodles. If you go to Japan and start chastising people for slurping, they'll think you're the crazy one. Is this a sign of Japanese not having etiquette? Of course not. It just means the rules are different. Likewise, I'm not trying to portray any outward disrespect if I keep my hat on in your home. It was just never a 'rule' for me that keeping it on was a signal that I was ready to bolt out the door and therefore rude.

We may no longer ostracize people for their lack of etiquette, and perhaps that’s a good thing. However, such behaviour still shapes our opinion of them, and them of us, perhaps in ways we don’t even consciously discern.

Besides, where’s the harm? Showing a small gesture of respect for others, even if some find it archaic or arbitrary, is probably something the world could use in greater quantities than what currently seems evident."

The main point I've made in discussions past is that I just don't find the idea that there is no etiquette anymore to be true. I think there's a different understanding of what comprises modern etiquette which doesn't always align with what we past generations may have thought was correct.

Specifically as it relates to hat etiquette? I just don't think that a majority of it holds true anymore. I've seen adult men in ball caps at white tablecloth restaurants. The difference between myself and Mr. Temkin, apparently, is that I don't believe that secretly deep down inside most people are thinking "Oh geeze, look at the guy in the ball cap over there, how rude!"

Sure, that might happen on individual level, and Mr. Temkin might be quietly judging me if we ever sit in the same cafe, but on the whole I don't think we, as a society, uphold the norms of hat etiquette. And being that we don't, I don't particularly find any reason to follow that code to the letter,

All of that having been (somewhat poorly) said, I'd like to think that I have some sense about when it's appropriate to wear a hat or not in a modern context. I'm not going to sit in a church with a hat on. In most 'white tablecloth' restaurants I'd take my hat off. Going over to somebody's house? I'd probably just keep it on. Of course you take it off for the national anthem, etc.

 

[Bob Roberts]

THANK YOU JARED. ^ ^ ^ ^

 

[moontheloon]

Mr. Temkin sure has put a lot of thought into his take.

And I wouldn't say that I disagree with most of the general thrust, but I would differ on specifics.

The other caveat is that I happen to live in a city where different peoples' norms and mores are clashing all the time in some way or another, and that our idea of "normal" plays out on a larger spectrum than other places. In other words, if your indoors-hat is the part of your outfit that is offending someone in SF, you're probably the least controversial person in the room.

There definitely are parts of "courtesy and etiquette" that I personally find to be "old fashioned" to the point of absurdity.



If a hat for "ornamental fashion" is acceptable indoors for women, the gender-neutral rendering of this piece of "etiquette" is simply, 'if your hat is an integral part of your outfit, it's ok to leave it on indoors.'

I think most of us here fall into this category, otherwise the "what hat are you wearing today" thread would be really boring. Back in the day when most men had one main hat, and maybe a dress hat, the hat was far more utilitarian. I think of my hats as a part of my outfit and deliberately pick them.


(bold added for emphasis)

As a former academic of the social sciences, I find this a remarkable claim (not in a good way) which is immediately suspect. At a minimum I would need to see some sort of evidence which backs this assertion. But "etiquette" is a human, social construction, and is not at all monolithic. It may be true that certain rules of etiquette are ultimately derived from "innate aspects of social interaction," but as a blanket statement, it doesn't pass the smell test.

The analogy I used in a past thread was slurping noodles. In the U.S., it's widely regarded to be rude or otherwise just somewhat uncouth to slurp a long noodle into your mouth. In Asia, that's just how you eat noodles. If you go to Japan and start chastising people for slurping, they'll think you're the crazy one. Is this a sign of Japanese not having etiquette? Of course not. It just means the rules are different. Likewise, I'm not trying to portray any outward disrespect if I keep my hat on in your home. It was just never a 'rule' for me that keeping it on was a signal that I was ready to bolt out the door and therefore rude.



The main point I've made in discussions past is that I just don't find the idea that there is no etiquette anymore to be true. I think there's a different understanding of what comprises modern etiquette which doesn't always align with what we past generations may have thought was correct.

Specifically as it relates to hat etiquette? I just don't think that a majority of it holds true anymore. I've seen adult men in ball caps at white tablecloth restaurants. The difference between myself and Mr. Temkin, apparently, is that I don't believe that secretly deep down inside most people are thinking "Oh geeze, look at the guy in the ball cap over there, how rude!"

Sure, that might happen on individual level, and Mr. Temkin might be quietly judging me if we ever sit in the same cafe, but on the whole I don't think we, as a society, uphold the norms of hat etiquette. And being that we don't, I don't particularly find any reason to follow that code to the letter,

All of that having been (somewhat poorly) said, I'd like to think that I have some sense about when it's appropriate to wear a hat or not in a modern context. I'm not going to sit in a church with a hat on. In most 'white tablecloth' restaurants I'd take my hat off. Going over to somebody's house? I'd probably just keep it on. Of course you take it off for the national anthem, etc.

good read right there

 

[blueAZNmonkey]

I have a couple responses for Mr. Wexl-temk, followed by my own summation below...

When its intention ceases to appear at least modestly functional, it risks devolving into a conspicuous fashion doodad or identity costume.

Well... the general scarceness of 360° brim-type hats makes wearing them at all a sort of identity costume - whether indoors or outdoors. In my area of the states, whether you're on the street or in a pub, this particular "costume" immediately evokes the hipster "identity" from someone my age. But on a more macro scale, I think there are few enough fedora-enthusiasts (let alone antique fedora enthusiasts) out there that anyone who chooses to wear one, either indoors or outdoors, is already partaking in a conspicuously eccentric sub-cultural identity -- that of fedora-wearer.

That’s why when you settle somewhere indoors such as a restaurant, the theatre or someone’s home, it’s not only a traditional courtesy but also a good idea to remove your hat. Not doing so risks making you look buffoonish because the hat becomes non-functional and more easily regarded as a vain ornament.

I don't argue axioms with the theater example here, but I do argue conclusions. I think it's courteous to take your hat off in the theater because blocking the view of the other guy who got conned into a $13.00 matinee is just rude -- not because the non-functional piece of clothing is vain. I can't see the time on my watch when I'm in a dark movie theater, but that doesn't mean I take it off my wrist. On a rainy day, I just keep my raincoat on when I take a seat at the theater -- I'm sure there's more examples...

Like it or not, failing to remove your hat when socially indoors will be perceived by some as uncouth behaviour. Imagine having someone over for dinner and they kept their overcoat on the whole evening as if they intended to leave at any moment. It would likely make others feel uncomfortable and you none too pleased. It’s the same thing: when indoors socially, we remove our hats as a sign of commonality, respect and social cooperation.

The coat reference here is a subjective example. It's not universally applicable to every community or situation. In California, we flip our lids when the temp goes down to the freezing 60's. I've both hosted and attended tons of parties where guests stay indoors, or free-float between indoor and outdoor, and if it's cold, it's certainly common to see people wearing their outerwear whilst inside - even whilst sitting at the dinner table. In my network, it's safe to say that the only reason a group of friends would suspect a person at the table is about to dine and dash would be because he or she wasn't partaking in conversation or was behaving in an isolated way -- not because of the jacket or hat he or she was wearing.

So all that to be said, the rules I have outlined for myself are as follows:

• Fedora or cap can always be worn outside
• Fedora must always be off whilst indoors at work (to look more traditionally businesslike) or church (to not distract from the rituals) unless I am just entering or just leaving the building.
• Cap must always be off at church (to not distract from the rituals) unless I am just entering or just leaving the building. Cap may be worn at work if temp is cold (since baseball caps are commonplace, I say why not).
• Fedora or cap may be worn at a casual restaurant if there is no place to stow the hat.
• If going to a dressed-up dinner or event, leave any accompanying hat in the car.
• If a host offers to stow hat, allow him or her to do so.
• Don't block anyone's view.
• Follow the rules of the establishment.

Those are just the guides I've set for myself. If any of you fine ladies and gents were to show up at my house and leave your hat on, I wouldn't think twice about it.

 

[andrew_AU]

Mr. Temkin sure has put a lot of thought into his take.

And I wouldn't say that I disagree with most of the general thrust, but I would differ on specifics.

The other caveat is that I happen to live in a city where different peoples' norms and mores are clashing all the time in some way or another, and that our idea of "normal" plays out on a larger spectrum than other places. In other words, if your indoors-hat is the part of your outfit that is offending someone in SF, you're probably the least controversial person in the room.

There definitely are parts of "courtesy and etiquette" that I personally find to be "old fashioned" to the point of absurdity.



If a hat for "ornamental fashion" is acceptable indoors for women, the gender-neutral rendering of this piece of "etiquette" is simply, 'if your hat is an integral part of your outfit, it's ok to leave it on indoors.'

I think most of us here fall into this category, otherwise the "what hat are you wearing today" thread would be really boring. Back in the day when most men had one main hat, and maybe a dress hat, the hat was far more utilitarian. I think of my hats as a part of my outfit and deliberately pick them.


(bold added for emphasis)

As a former academic of the social sciences, I find this a remarkable claim (not in a good way) which is immediately suspect. At a minimum I would need to see some sort of evidence which backs this assertion. But "etiquette" is a human, social construction, and is not at all monolithic. It may be true that certain rules of etiquette are ultimately derived from "innate aspects of social interaction," but as a blanket statement, it doesn't pass the smell test.

The analogy I used in a past thread was slurping noodles. In the U.S., it's widely regarded to be rude or otherwise just somewhat uncouth to slurp a long noodle into your mouth. In Asia, that's just how you eat noodles. If you go to Japan and start chastising people for slurping, they'll think you're the crazy one. Is this a sign of Japanese not having etiquette? Of course not. It just means the rules are different. Likewise, I'm not trying to portray any outward disrespect if I keep my hat on in your home. It was just never a 'rule' for me that keeping it on was a signal that I was ready to bolt out the door and therefore rude.



The main point I've made in discussions past is that I just don't find the idea that there is no etiquette anymore to be true. I think there's a different understanding of what comprises modern etiquette which doesn't always align with what we past generations may have thought was correct.

Specifically as it relates to hat etiquette? I just don't think that a majority of it holds true anymore. I've seen adult men in ball caps at white tablecloth restaurants. The difference between myself and Mr. Temkin, apparently, is that I don't believe that secretly deep down inside most people are thinking "Oh geeze, look at the guy in the ball cap over there, how rude!"

Sure, that might happen on individual level, and Mr. Temkin might be quietly judging me if we ever sit in the same cafe, but on the whole I don't think we, as a society, uphold the norms of hat etiquette. And being that we don't, I don't particularly find any reason to follow that code to the letter,

All of that having been (somewhat poorly) said, I'd like to think that I have some sense about when it's appropriate to wear a hat or not in a modern context. I'm not going to sit in a church with a hat on. In most 'white tablecloth' restaurants I'd take my hat off. Going over to somebody's house? I'd probably just keep it on. Of course you take it off for the national anthem, etc.

I like your take on this.

I feel very similarly. That is, I like to think that I have a reasonable sense of when it is appropriate to wear a hat and when to take it off.

Also, as someone said earlier in this thread, I find it odd that someone may be offended or irritated just because I feel that it is appropriate to wear a hat in a situation where they may feel it is inappropriate. Obvious (to me) exceptions are inside a place of worship (other than a faith where one is expected to cover ones head), when any national anthem is being played/sung etc where it is not appropriate (for me) to wear a hat.

 

[andrew_AU]

• Don't block anyone's view.

Yes, don't block anyones view. While I would not naturally take my hat off inside a theatre merely because I am inside a theatre I would certainly remove my hat if I felt that I was obstructing the view of the person behind me.

 

[Bob Roberts]

I attended a evening wake (last summer) at a funeral home in SoConn. One guy was wearing a ball cap.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

LIVE AND LET LIVE.

"Celebrate Diversity."

I attend a evening wake (last summer) at a funeral home in SoConn. One fckr was wearing a ball cap.

??

 

[KarlCrow]

was it the corpse?

 

[Bob Roberts]

??

Thats what makes for horse racing.

 

[hatophile]

was it the corpse?

If I didn't plan to be cremated, I might have the funeral director put a fedora on my head for the viewing

 

[suitedcboy]

I have alt-etiquette. Your hat ring from wearing the hat is SO FREAKIN' OFFENSIVE to me. Put your hat back on. If you have one of those U shaped airplane neck pillow things then please wear it to bed too.
I strive to employ more hatmakers due to wearing my hats to the end of their service life. My hat jobs program. No pristine hats left in my estate to be sold on Ebay after I've passed. Sorry but jobs for the people trumps your momma told you so hat rules.