All You Need to Know About Hat Etiquette

[Feraud]

I don't see why you would not leave it on in the situation you describe.

 

[dnjan]

If it were winter, would you take your gloves off for the 5-minute drop-in?
If so, I would remove my hat as well.

 

[Wolfmanjack]

Going back to the secretary (yes, a lady), if all you are doing is coming in your office and signing some papers for the day and leaving right away, possibly not even sitting down at our desk, should the hat still come off?

If you are not speaking to anyone, except to say "Hello" and "Goodbye", it is quite alright to leave your hat on. But consider doing a brim tug; it's a time-honored social gesture...and it looks quite dapper. Or, you can go all the way with "The Magnificent Gesture."

Lets say the hypothetical situation where you come in into your office, your secretary follows you in with some papers to sign, you sign them at your desk, have a quick chat with her, maybe about appointments etc and is right out of the door again, all in like 5 minutes. Should you take the hat off for this short length?

Yes, most definitely, take your hat off. Back in the day, speaking at some length to a lady with your hat on was highly disrespectful...unless you're Philip Marlowe in The Big Sleep.

Or if you need to come in into an employee room to give them some instructions and the like, not even sitting down or anything, should you take the hat off, even if they are men?

Standing over someone, man or woman, giving them instructions with your hat on would have been (in the day) the height of boorish arrogance.

Here's Marlowe giving instructions, "Go ahead and scratch."

We are talking a big office building for a big company here, if it matters

Too big to fail? lol

 

[AXL DEMOCRACY]

Ack, he's grabbing it by the crown!!!lol


Brad

Is it that bad to take your hat off by the crown? I always felt taking it off by the brim ruins the straightness and stiffness of the brim that I like.

 

[Lefty]

You'll thin it, and eventually wear a hole in the pinch.

 

[John in Covina]

the general rule is you should NOT grab the hat by the "pinch" in front.
Doing so over time will create a hole in the felt that is near impossible to repair. (See pictures of Bogart as Fred C. Dobbs in 'the Treasure of Sierra Madre' for a pinch hole.)

 

[Tango Yankee]

Is it that bad to take your hat off by the crown? I always felt taking it off by the brim ruins the straightness and stiffness of the brim that I like.

The tendency is to grasp the hat's crown at the pinch in front (which, now that I think of it, may be how side dents came to be!) when using the crown to take off or tip your hat. That may lead to frequent flexing of the felt in the area of the top of the pinch, which in turn leads to the development of a hole there if done often enough.

Back when hats were common it wouldn't be considered that big a deal. As we see in the movies and news clips, hats were not babied by the men who wore them. They had the security of knowing that if something happened to their hat they could always stop by the local hatter to have it cleaned or renovated, or to buy a replacement. It was not unusual to have the hat body reversed during the renovation process to move the weakened felt at the front pinch to the back of the hat by simply turning the hat body around when installing the sweatband and ribbon.

These days most of the hats we in the Lounge wear are vintage and may be difficult to replace, hence the avoidance of grasping the front of the crown to remove the hat from one's head. It's an effort to extend the life of the hat.

In reality, I wouldn't be surprised if many here continue grasping the hat by the crown as that seems to be a perfectly natural way of removing the hat. I do it myself, but I'm usually concious about not squeezing it at the pinch when I do so.

I hope that clears things up for you!

Regards,
Tom

 

[AXL DEMOCRACY]

It does. Thank you very much for that info. Yes I notice in many films, and even stock footage men taking off their hats by the crown.
But definitely understand why you would try to correct that habit.

I'll have to be more conscious of that in the future when putting on or taking off my hats. I just hope my brim now doesn't get weakened. Ha. But I guess a brim is easier to fix/repair than a crown?

 

[Feraud]

But I guess a brim is easier to fix/repair than a crown?

The idea is a wonky brim can be re-flanged (is the the correct terminology?) but a crown with a hole is not as easily fixed.

 

[markapsolon]

Modern hat etiquette

I know I may be opening up a can of worms with this post but I need the input for a instruction video I would like to make in the up coming weeks. I will post the fedora lounge members as the source, since you guys and gals are the knowledgeable individuals on HATS.

I have read just about everything on-line about hat etiquette and I would like each persons thoughts and feelings about the current etiquette. Things have changed a bit from the 1920's until now and we need a good source for modern etiquette on hat wearing. Should something be changed or should it remain the same? That is where you guys come in. Read the questions below and give me your thoughts (I wish we had a polling system for this as it would make it easier..lol) If I left anything out below ,which I know I will , please add it to the list.

The questions are below. They take a broad look at hat etiquette and assume you know some of the rules. Please feel free to go into detail with your answers:


1. Does a man or woman really have to take their hat off when going indoors? What do you think about Public places (What is a public place to you)? What do you think about Malls? Wal-mart? The local grocery store? concerts? Movies? Banks? Bars? Diners? Restaurants? The post office? DMV?, etc?

2. When can a man justify breaking the rules of hat etiquette?

3. Should a man "tip" his hat to a lady or remove his hat when in her presences? Why or why not?

4. What parts of hat etiquette do you feel should be modified or changed? or do you feel it is perfect the way it is? Why or why not?

 

[Tomasso]

The questions are below.

Please feel free to go into detail with your answers:

How about: These questions have been discussed at length (ad nauseam) on TFL. Please feel free to peruse the archives.

 

[danofarlington]

1. Does a man or woman really have to take their hat off when going indoors? What do you think about Public places (What is a public place to you)? What do you think about Malls? Wal-mart? The local grocery store? concerts? Movies? Banks? Bars? Diners? Restaurants? The post office? DMV?, etc?

2. When can a man justify breaking the rules of hat etiquette?

3. Should a man "tip" his hat to a lady or remove his hat when in her presents? Why or why not?

4. What parts of hat etiquette do you feel should be modified or changed? or do you feel it is prefect the way it is? Why or why not?

Without wading through all the history, I personally would say this based on my five or six years of hat-wearing, for whatever that's worth.

1) I don't take my hat off indoors in public places except church and restaurants (walk to my table with it on though). Everything else is fair game IMHO. A hat is a style item and I feel entitled to wear a fedora wherever you see men wearing baseball caps, which is pretty much everywhere. You wear it for style just like they do. Obviously I don't wear the hat at movies or concerts because it's obstructive to those behind me.

2) You can break the laws according to your chutzpah--a few weeks ago a photo was posted about a man in a Panama hat at a restaurant table blatantly breaking the rule. But it looked good. Maybe he was a big shot and felt entitlement because of that. There are no Hat Police.

3) I've never tipped my hat to a lady or removed it in her presence. That seems to me quite old-fashioned, not expected, not appreciated if you did it, and somewhat affected. Doing so I believe would come off as playing at being old-fashioned.

4) I don't think there is hat etiquette anymore except for the problem with wearing hats in restaurants, religious places or movies and concerts. Nobody wears fedoras anymore, so the rules have to be reinvented. So, reinvent them.

 

[Shangas]

1. Does a man or woman really have to take their hat off when going indoors? What do you think about Public places (What is a public place to you)? What do you think about Malls? Wal-mart? The local grocery store? concerts? Movies? Banks? Bars? Diners? Restaurants? The post office? DMV?, etc?

--- --- ---

Taking off hat when going indoors? Yes.
Where to take off?

- Shopping-malls/centers - No.
- Theatres/cinemas - Yes.
- Restaurants - Yes.
- Banks - No.
- Grocery store - No.
- Post-Office - No.

1, 4, 5 and 6 are 'public places'. You go there, you do your stuff, you go out. Why bother taking off your hat? You're not interfering with anyone.

2 and 3 are 'private' places. In a restaurant you don't want to eat and cover up your face with your hat. Take it off. In theatres and cinemas, it's common sense and courtesy, to stop blocking the view of people behind you.

2. When can a man justify breaking the rules of hat etiquette?

--- --- --- ---

When he's in a hurry, perhaps, or is new to hats.

3. Should a man "tip" his hat to a lady or remove his hat when in her presents? Why or why not?

--- --- --- ---

*Grammar Nazi* PRESENCE */Nazi*.

Today I don't know if it's necessary. No women that I know of, would recognise it or acknowledge it. Perhaps in formal settings it might be encouraged, but among friends, perhaps not. To a stranger-lady, yes.

4. What parts of hat etiquette do you feel should be modified or changed? or do you feel it is prefect the way it is? Why or why not?

--- --- --- ---

Removing one's hat when indoors should be kept, but it shouldn't be a blanket-rule. Tipping/doffing hats might or might not change, depending on the situation.

 

[Puzzicato]

I thought that a woman was only expected to remove her hat if she was provided with a looking glass so that she could tidy her hair!

 

[GWD]

I thought that a woman was only expected to remove her hat if she was provided with a looking glass so that she could tidy her hair!

You are correct.

 

[Wolfwood]

1. Does a man or woman really have to take their hat off when going indoors? What do you think about Public places (What is a public place to you)? What do you think about Malls? Wal-mart? The local grocery store? concerts? Movies? Banks? Bars? Diners? Restaurants? The post office? DMV?, etc?

2. When can a man justify breaking the rules of hat etiquette?

3. Should a man "tip" his hat to a lady or remove his hat when in her presence? Why or why not?

4. What parts of hat etiquette do you feel should be modified or changed? Or do you feel it is perfect the way it is? Why or why not?

Typos marked in red.

1. Women don't take off their hats. Men do. But as others have said, public places give you an option of keeping your lid on, such as malls, grocery stores (remember that you are not targeting your questions to Americans only - this is an international forum while Wal-mart is not) etc. I tend to keep my lid on when I'm in banks or post office, but I remove it when I approach the customer service desk (unless my hands are occupied by a large box I'm sending off). In restaurants, theatres etc. it should be removed for politeness' sake.

2. When a man is carrying a very large box or other items that occupy his hands - or when there is no place to put the hat without setting it on grime.

3. No. I'm already getting enough wondering looks when I open a door to a lady - I'm not going to compound on it by starting to remove my hat or tipping it to them. Friendly smile and a nod is enough in most cases.

4. Hat etiquette is dependent on local customs. I think in places like Texas it is perfectly ok to wear a hat in a restaurant, while in other places wearing a baseball cap or a hat will earn you certain sorts of looks. Again we should remember that the world is a big place and customs and etiquette is different in different places.

 

[Tiller]

1. Does a man or woman really have to take their hat off when going indoors? What do you think about Public places (What is a public place to you)? What do you think about Malls? Wal-mart? The local grocery store? concerts? Movies? Banks? Bars? Diners? Restaurants? The post office? DMV?, etc?

The simplest way for me to answer the question of "When should a man take off his hat?" is to think "In this situation would I wear an overcoat, and leather gloves?". When you sit down to eat (especially if you are eating with someone else at a half way decent restaurant) you'd take off your hat, gloves, and jacket. It's simply polite and practical, it shows that you are enjoying your meal, and planning on staying for awhile. Why would you wear something designed to protect you from the elements when you are sitting inside, and eating? A quick run down for me would be.

Shops: No. Although you may take off your gloves well inside for your own comfort, there is no reason to take off your hat and jacket (unless your trying on clothes of course).

Banks: Some banks require their customers to remove their hats for security reasons. Whether we like it or not in our security oriented society, people want to be able to see your head in its natural state. lol

Diners:At my local diner I take off my hat and jacket unless I'm planning on eating and running.

Restaurants: Of course. Remove your hat. If you are eating outside though, their is no problem with keeping your hat on. If your inside though remove your hat.

Post Office: Keep it on.

DMV: Keep it on.

Offices: IMHO if your going to an office for some reason, and plan on addressing someone for a long period of time remove your hat and jacket.

2. When can a man justify breaking the rules of hat etiquette?

There is no reason to doff your hat if your doing physical labor. Just because a woman passes doesn't mean you should drop the box with fifty pound of stuff on your foot. If you wear your hat well driving their is no reason to doff it every time you pass someone, concentrate on driving. lol

3. Should a man "tip" his hat to a lady or remove his hat when in her presents? Why or why not?

I remove my hat the first time I meet someone no matter the gender. I take off my hat, shake their hand, and will then put my hat back on as we start talking. To me it's simple politeness. When passing a woman on the street I will often touch the rim of my hat, although I will sometimes doff it. If I'm on a busy walkway (as would be seen in NYC and other larger cities) I only tip my hat if someone tips their hat towards me, waves, or address me politely in another way. For me its the same as someone saying "How is it going?" as we passed each other, IMO it's polite to simply respond "I'm doing good, yourself?". Their is no reason to simply ignore someone who is trying to be polite towards you.

When in an elevator I always remove my hat if a women steps on. To me it's simply to recognizes their presence. It's one of the "old rules" that I admire the most, and something that I believe can set you apart. Now some decry this. Claiming that I am "dressing for others and not myself", not understanding that I can actually do both at the same time.

I've also removed my hat well a funeral precision is going by. Now obviously this isn't a daily occurrence, but I still see it as a form of politeness. I also remove my hat during the national anthem. Whether this is simple an American habit, or a universal one though I'm not sure.

4. What parts of hat etiquette do you feel should be modified or changed? or do you feel it is prefect the way it is? Why or why not?

Some people on this forum hate "the rules". Some are simply afraid to stand out anymore then they already do, well others think they are outdated, and wearing a hat should be the same as wearing a ball cap.

I think most people believe that the rules amounts to this:

I would state simply, that their is no reason to go overboard, but simple politeness is not much to ask for. Would the world really be a worse place if more people had simple manners?

 

[danofarlington]

Typos marked in red.


3. No. I'm already getting enough wondering looks when I open a door to a lady - I'm not going to compound on it by starting to remove my hat or tipping it to them.

Exactly my point. Once I offered my subway seat to a young woman, just because she was a woman. She got all embarrassed and declined. So I stopped offering seats to women in that old-fashioned way, because it's not expected anymore and it just doesn't register. I'm afraid that a man in a vintage hat going around tipping it to the ladies would be viewed as living in a pretend world.

 

[Tiller]

Exactly my point. Once I offered my subway seat to a young woman, just because she was a woman. She got all embarrassed and declined. So I stopped offering seats to women in that old-fashioned way, because it's not expected anymore and it just doesn't register. I'm afraid that a man in a vintage hat going around tipping it to the ladies would be viewed as living in a pretend world.

Some people believe we live in a "pretend world", because we wear hats, and some of us hats and suits. Many have heard the insults "Who do you think you are? Indiana Jones/Eliot Ness/ Al Capone/ A pimp/ gangster". If I was afraid of being different from the norms of the modern age, I wouldn't wear a hat or suit in the fist place.

 

[Richard Warren]

Hat etiquette rules pertained to what was once conventional behavior which is now an eccentricity. There are really no rules for the display of an eccentricity, other than the various penal statutes and ordinances.

Setting aside hats worn for occupational or sporting purposes, the dividing line seems to me to be between those who wear hats for cosmetic purposes, and those wearing hats for ornamental purposes. The former are unlikely to want to remove their hats, and the latter tend to make a point of being polite, which gives them a chance to fiddle with their hats and to demonstrate that they are not the former.

Some of my own predilections re hat removal:

dives-no
roadhouses-no
bar rooms with concrete floors-no
dance clubs-don't wear a hat
music clubs-no
strip clubs-who cares
wine bars-don't go in
club-yes
golf club house-yes