Alexander Leathers Simmons and Aero Aeromarine Discussion

[Sloan1874]

I would be interested in seeing AL's original model for the Simmonds jacket, if as people are suggesting it's based on a 1920s model.

 

[majormajor]

Wow! This thread grew some, and morphed just a little, since I logged off!

So, firstly, thanks to Nathan for separating the threads, although it was the original OP who, in asking about an Aeromarine, caused the topic swerve

And secondly, I think we all agree that the Heron jacket design is an old one, that thankfully, has been updated by a number of vintage repro manufacturers.

Himmel will, I am sure, have based theirs on at least one, maybe more originals. Likewise, Aero have done the same. I have seen the original jacket that Ken has used as inspiration for his new patterns. And I am sure that ELC and BK will follow the same path to production, taking their example from original jackets, and then producing suitable new patterns.

AlexCo, on the other hand, have demonstrated that, if you look hard enough, you can find an example of an old jacket that apes the Heron in a half-assed way, but can be put together by simply shaving a few corners off an existing "inherited" pattern, and passing it off as something new.

Tell me I'm wrong ( I know just who will), but time will tell us just who of the aforementioned manufacturers will still be revered on TFL in a year's time. Mark my words...

 

[bretron]

As someone totally obsessed with this pattern of jacket, I for one welcome some more competition and design interpretations.

Lest we forget this was a jacket style made by countless makers back in the day-day (and not based on a MIL spec). just think of how many different versions of half belts have been made over the years.

That said, I think the AL variation has a loong way to go ;P

 

[majormajor]

As someone totally obsessed with this pattern of jacket, I for one welcome some more competition and design interpretations.

Lest we forget this was a jacket style made by countless makers back in the day-day (and not based on a MIL spec). just think of how many different versions of half belts have been made over the years

Dead right, Bret. And easy to produce a new pattern for it, as long as you have the skill. Or not.....

 

[schitzo]

"AlexCo, on the other hand, have demonstrated that, if you look hard enough, you can find an example of an old jacket that apes the Heron in a half-assed way, but can be put together by simply shaving a few corners off an existing "inherited" pattern, and passing it off as something new.

Tell me I'm wrong ( I know just who will), but time will tell us just who of the aforementioned manufacturers will still be revered on TFL in a year's time. Mark my words."


MM, seriously, is that necessary?

It's gotten to the point now where I know (roughly) what you're gonna say before you say it. And if I know it then that means there must be others who know it too. So the point is, if we know what you're gonna say before you've said it, then the value of your input is what exactly?

 

[bretron]

Here are a few pics of different variations (like I said, I'm really into this kinda jacket):

http://m1227.photobucket.com/albums/Bretron/A1 jackets/

 

[majormajor]

MM, seriously, is that necessary?

It's gotten to the point now where I know (roughly) what you're gonna say before you say it. And if I know it then that means there must be others who know it too. So the point is, if we know what you're gonna say before you've said it, then the value of your input is what exactly?

Hi Schitz.

Watch my lips...

MARK

MY

WORDS

 

[Sloan1874]

When you were up at AL's factory, Schitzo, did they show you the basis for their Simmons? Actually, out of interest, do they have any originals kicking around at all?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I must say that some consistently seem to try and devert from the obvious. Himmel brought out the Heron some time ago. Aero brought out their new line in the past few weeks with much fanfare. Included was their version of the shaw collar from a vintage jacket in Aero's collection. I don't know how Alexander came up with theirs...but they certainly rushed it out as quickly as possible to match Aero's reveal. Competition..or a lingering form of instigation? I usually keep quiet on this in most threads to avoid the war...but still can't get over the fact that Alexander's jackets seem to be almost a mirror image of Aero jackets with new names except for a few quirks here and there...and this seems to be Alexander's plan..rather that more unique/different copies of other vintage jacket designs. Other manufacturers like Himmel..LW,etc have made Half Belt and other vintage designs with a style that can easily be recognized as their own...certainly not an altered Aero. I don't really care what Alexander does..but I think they missed the mark on what they could of done...and,I think,that adds to the disdain of some who speak out..and even some that don't. I suppose if they can make an Aero of same quality with eventually as good or better hides for cheaper..they will have succeeded.
HD

 

[ButteMT61]

Not to be a pedantic prick here, but for the sake of giving the maker it's dues: it's "Himel".
But I agree. Seems half-baked to me. (Queue the usual "Aero can do no wrong" whining...) just (re)stating the obvious. I'm a fan of lots of makers. Just not all.

 

[jlanderson]

Here are a few pics of different variations (like I said, I'm really into this kinda jacket):

http://m1227.photobucket.com/albums/Bretron/A1 jackets/

Thanks! Especially like the jacket in photo No. 8. Nice.

 

[Jeff M]

.......I usually keep quiet on this in most threads to avoid the war...but still can't get over the fact that Alexander's jackets seem to be almost a mirror image of Aero jackets with new names except for a few quirks here and there...and this seems to be Alexander's plan..rather that more unique/different copies of other vintage jacket designs. .......
HD

That is what has struck me most about AL. It isn't that one...or two.....or three of their jackets are somewhat similar to Aero designs.
Their entire line is basically appropriated from Aero.
No law against it. Best of luck to them. But....jeez......pick on somebody else!

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Not to be a pedantic prick here, but for the sake of giving the maker it's dues: it's "Himel".
But I agree. Seems half-baked to me. (Queue the usual "Aero can do no wrong" whining...) just (re)stating the obvious. I'm a fan of lots of makers. Just not all.

Oh yeah. Himmel was that weird nursey rhyme author..wasn't he?..or did he make those porcelain figurines..or was it thimbles?
Well Aero do what Aero do...and now someone else too.

 

[ProteinNerd]

That is what has struck me most about AL. It isn't that one...or two.....or three of their jackets are somewhat similar to Aero designs.
Their entire line is basically appropriated from Aero.
No law against it. Best of luck to them. But....jeez......pick on somebody else!

From my very limited understanding of the situation (which may very well wrong and please feel free to correct me) but didn't a whole bunch of Aero employees leave and go to AL?

If that is the case then the very people who actually made the jackets a year or so ago at Aero are the very same people making the jackets now at AL....

Just seems that a lot of people here who haven't even seen an AL jacket in person are saying a lot of stuff about the quality when in reality the only difference may very well be the label inside...how many people own an Aero they love that was actually made by someone now working at AL? Does that diminish its quality or value?

 

[pipvh]

The basic idea of this jacket isn't exactly new, even as a modern repro. LVC have been doing their Menlo for a few years now. The Japanese makers - eg Bootleggers' Reunion - have been exploring early 20th Century designs for, again, a few years. When Himel brought out the Heron, wasn't it partly in response to Japanese innovations (can you have innovation in replicating old things? ) and a desire to break out of the usual HB/A2 rut of Euro/US repros? We're just looking at a trend. If Goodwear turn out to be working on a Simmons Bilt or a Menlo, are we going to accuse them of ripping off Aero? All these makers are just responding to what they feel is happening, or is about to happen, in the market. It isn't a very big market, and I would guess that trends are pretty easy to spot...

 

[Plumbline]

Inspiration ...... Looks like ...

Ken's go "Boardwalk Empire" and "Mr Selfridge" and Will has Rin Tanaka's books.

As a consumer .... "let them make jackets" I say

 

[HoosierDaddy]

From my very limited understanding of the situation (which may very well wrong and please feel free to correct me) but didn't a whole bunch of Aero employees leave and go to AL?

If that is the case then the very people who actually made the jackets a year or so ago at Aero are the very same people making the jackets now at AL....

Just seems that a lot of people here who haven't even seen an AL jacket in person are saying a lot of stuff about the quality when in reality the only difference may very well be the label inside...how many people own an Aero they love that was actually made by someone now working at AL? Does that diminish its quality or value?

I think there may be some question about just who left or were actually let go. Seems there may have been those led into involvement with interests not beneficial to Aero as a company. Perhaps even were increasingly becoming very detrimental over the years. I really haven't noticed anyone complaining about Alexander's workmanship..but more the design and possible motives. I don't think the quality or worth is diminished..but the idea of an Aero II with another new name just seems to continue conjuring up more betrayal to some. The accusations have been pretty well covered on another thread. Mattering to some..and then some others could really care less. In any event..manipulation of trust surprised many customers who then became aware of just who was willing to offer any help after the split.
HD

 

[majormajor]

Dead right, HD.

Discussing Civil or Criminal cases before they are completed is something we simply cannot do on a public forum. so I guess the "limited understanding" of many will continue, at least for now.

Threads that HAVE touched too deeply on the subject have, quite rightly, been removed. I, for one, look forward to a time when ALL the facts are in the open. Patience is a virtue

 

[Plumbline]

Discussing Civil or Criminal cases before they are completed is something we simply cannot do on a public forum.

THIS has GOT TO BE THE QUOTE OF THE YEAR



Major ... you are a legend Sir !

 

[majormajor]

THIS has GOT TO BE THE QUOTE OF THE YEAR



Major ... you are a legend Sir !

You are TOO kind, PL