AL - Simmons Bilt!

[Big J]

Bootlegger Billy & Copycat Cathy

Thanks!
Maybe Superfluous can find a photo!

 

[Edward]

HD my supposition regarding possible loss of market share was really posed separate and apart from Mr. Lauder's conviction. However, I do get the impression that their PR regarding the whole WL thing perhaps could have been handled better by them. I believe I recall AL making a public statement a couple of years ago on their website regarding their defense of spurious things (or words to that effect) said about Mr. Lauder, and then their recent disclaimer to the contrary, disavowing that he was ever a part of AL management. Perhaps AL would have been better served to have said nothing at all regarding Mr. Lauder on either occasion instead of what they did say? :lie:

IT's definitely an understatement to say they could have handled it better.

The first statement to appear on AL's website was from Will himself stating that he was this new companies MD. In those comments, he complained that he was personally wronged by Aero. It wasn't up for very long as a more blanket company statement replaced it.

I remember that. It was basically a rant - "They're all telling lies about me, and I'll sue them all!". I suspect that it was put up and then quickly removed once their legal team caught sight of it. Much like the more recent statement in which they made unsubstantiated claims about Aero defaming them (likely to land them in defamation proceedings) disappeared quickly, again, I suspect, after their legal bods saw it.

He was definitely instrumental in setting up the company - AL admitted as much in their original blurb, the one that they deleted several iterations ago - but who knows now. I still don't understand why Will denied that Sandy used him to approach Ken to buy Aero for £1m, laying it off on Aero Japan's owner Hiro - something he denied completely. I couldn't see what was in it for him because it was such a nonsensical thing to assert.

It seems an odd thing to lie about because it's not like it was illegal for Sandy to make an offer and will to communicate it to Ken. I suppose it might have gone to character and aided a prosecution strategy that ran with 'Will can't be trusted, Will tried to destroy Aero after the Calders wouldn't sell it to SA in order to cover his tracks / stop it being a competitor / w.h.y.".

KC eventually had to because too much damage had been done. But remember even he was willing to let it go right up until the end.

My read of the situation was that this had more to do with wanting the easiest possible solution - avoiding a long, drawn out trial and the impact of that (which has been severe, when you think of what the stress has done to Lydia Calder's health), and related factors rather than any sense of wounded pride. Also remember that it was only after the police were called in that the true extent of the theft became known. As memory serves, in those early stages all Ken and Aero were aware of was the sale of goods on eBay; around 75% of what Lauder ended up being charged with stealing, the hoard in his house, only came to light after the polis got involved.

It's all speculation whether Will would have done the same to AL. The strongest thing that comes across from the trial narrative is a sense of entitlement - "they were my jackets, I earned them", seemingly arising from some sort of grudge against the Calders over some perceived slight. (It can't have been Holly and Denny coming into the business, as it appears the problems started in 2004, long before that was even considered.) Maybe he'd have developed some similar issue with Sandy Alexander (same manager / owner dynamic), or maybe he'd have been fine with AL, given that got him out of Aero, when (as I get the impression) Aero could have gone under. Reading the trial narrative, it does seem that the whole thing was deeply personal and not about the money for Will. Of course, we don't know if there was much else taken and successfully sold through channels other than Will's eBay, but it did seem that he had amassed an awful lot of valuable stock and was just sitting on it like some off-kilter Smaug. Surely if making a bit of extra money was his main driver, he'd have quietly slipped those jackets off over the years...?

It does seem most likely to me that whatever other factors were in play, when AL was formed following meetings to which Aero staff were invited and then recruited, with Aero's MD moving to AL, and so on, that the business plan for AL probably assumed Aero would just fold, and then AL, positioning itself as "Aero in all but name", would be poised to mop up that market with a very similar range.

I see a new jacket pattern in the future from Simmonds_bilt called the jail bird comes with a hidden pocket for a book of tracing paper and miniature camera strictly for design purposes of course

Would that be a ridiculously over-sized pocket that rather ruined the look of the jacket?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Welll he managed the company for many years. Aero made some great stuff in that time and their reputation(and his) was strong until he was exposed. It appears he could manage staff and also had their loyalty. Perhaps the hardest skill for a manager to master. Its just that he focused his talents on enriching himself rather than doing the right thing by the company that employed him.

I don't see it that way at all. Sure the machinists kept on making great jackets and WL introduced more customization maybe often to Aero's detriment...as he also had jackets labeled HH that were actually made up of steer. Customer's waiting times increased dramatically. I expect Amanda attempted to do her job as always until allowed or directed to extend extra credit to MM when he was so far behind that he couldn't catch up, among other things out of the norm. Who knows what pressure many of these new directives had on workers. Some left as they stated they couldn't work for WL, and were hired back after he had been terminated.
The way It looks to me rather than managing a staff still willing to make Aero prosper, he made them think that they too were in a tight spot and should follow his exodus to the promised land.
HD

 

[pawineguy]

Welll he managed the company for many years. Aero made some great stuff in that time and their reputation(and his) was strong until he was exposed. It appears he could manage staff and also had their loyalty. Perhaps the hardest skill for a manager to master. Its just that he focused his talents on enriching himself rather than doing the right thing by the company that employed him.

Yes and no. Remember that there were a bunch of employees that couldn't work with WL that were then able to be rehired when Aero all of a sudden found themselves without most of their machinists. He did manage to keep things afloat, but he was creating enough problems that were eventually going to catch up with him, and the company itself. When you take over a solid company, it just takes a while to run it down into the ground.

 

[wanz]

It looks like they have had the simmonsbilt.com domain registered since December. I am a bit surprised that they don't have a redirect set up to the new address with more rebranding in place given the time to prepare. I suppose that they are a smaller company but their approach to PR and marketing continues to puzzle me.

 

[Big J]

As far as I can see, Sandy Alexander is bank-rolling the company, but day-to-day management has been left to Will Lauder, and subsequently Steve Toohey, who seem well out of thier depth, hence all the very badly written statements that have appeared on the website (bad grammar and punctuation aside, allegations, untruths, and threats), and the high rate of page revisionism.
Maybe they write in haste, and revise it when thier heads have cleared? Or maybe Sandy tells them to take that stuff down before they get into trouble?
Who knows.

 

[tropicalbob]

Considering Wanz's date of 12/14, SA had a whole year to consider the way the winds were blowing and the natures of the people he'd hired. I'm wondering if the name-change is also perhaps his way of distancing himself as a prelude to his getting out of it entirely, especially after the resurgence of Aero.

 

[Edward]

WL had no machining expertise, though I guess he knew the suppliers etc.

It's certainly not unimaginable that he told Sandy a few fibs about his true capabilities. The collaborations with other companies and AL that have come to fruition (Nigel Cabourn, Iron Heart) were with partners who had formerly worked with Aero, so he took that know-how with him.

Yes and no. Remember that there were a bunch of employees that couldn't work with WL that were then able to be rehired when Aero all of a sudden found themselves without most of their machinists. He did manage to keep things afloat, but he was creating enough problems that were eventually going to catch up with him, and the company itself. When you take over a solid company, it just takes a while to run it down into the ground.

There's been a lot of talk about a figure of "86% of Aero's staff" going to AL. The figures that came out in the trail were that ten machinists chose to go to AL with Will, while 9 former Aero staff who had left citing difficulty with working for Will chose to return. I think we can fairly say he was something of a divisive character.

As far as I can see, Sandy Alexander is bank-rolling the company, but day-to-day management has been left to Will Lauder, and subsequently Steve Toohey, who seem well out of thier depth, hence all the very badly written statements that have appeared on the website (bad grammar and punctuation aside, allegations, untruths, and threats), and the high rate of page revisionism.
Maybe they write in haste, and revise it when thier heads have cleared? Or maybe Sandy tells them to take that stuff down before they get into trouble?
Who knows.

There's clearly somebody putting stuff up that on occasion could get them into legal hot water, and somebody else calling them out on it and persuading them to take it down. They don't seem to have much horsesense about this being both bad PR and legally risky. I have visions of some harassed solicitor somewhere freaking out every time one of these things goes up - more Ted from Scrubs than Saul Goodman... Or maybe Ted is already working for 'Doctor' Bill Kelso.

Considering Wanz's date of 12/14, SA had a whole year to consider the way the winds were blowing and the natures of the people he'd hired. I'm wondering if the name-change is also perhaps his way of distancing himself as a prelude to his getting out of it entirely, especially after the resurgence of Aero.

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they folded the company in the next year or so. It doesn't seem to have gained much market traction, and they're in the sort of niche market where brand loyalty runs high, and the negative publicity around the Lauder trial and the perceived attempt to buy Aero out from under Ken, similarity in their range, and so on doesn't play well. That their short wait-time - trumpeted at one point as two weeks - was able to be pushed as a selling point compared to Aero's three months suggests to me that they're not exactly being flooded with offers. I suspect their chance of staying in the game now will depend on one of two things: either they will pull in some big contract to make for another label (in the way at one time Aero expanded significantly under the Levis contract), or they'll come up with a whole new line, dropping the patterns that match Aero jackets and the negatives that come with that, and restore some good will in the process. If right from the off when they set up with Will they'd started with something different than what Aero are doing, there would be a lot less criticism of AL as an operation as distinct from Will Lauder's criminal activity, IMO. Start with a couple of models, work it up slowly - like the relaunched Mascot are doing - and build the company organically. They seemed to want to have an operation like Aero right from the off. We can but speculate as to how they thought this possible, but it does seem to me that they assumed Aero would go under or have to outsource to meet existing orders (maybe it was in preparation for that outcome that Will took boxes of Aero labels out of the factory?), and that either way they would be able simply to fill the gap. [huh]

 

[I would go out tonight]

They have also listed some new designs. I quite fancy the 'Bermondsey' except it looks very similar to the Aero Work Coat I recently bought but without the small details that can lift a design out of the ordinary.
I tend to agree with Devilish. I cannot believe that SA knew the source of the patterns and I think the re-branding will be SA's exit.

 

[AdeeC]

A bit hard to believe SA did not know the source of the patterns. As an owner, his primary concern would be the designs of the collection he will be producing and well aware of the logistics required to assemble it and where they came from. He would know his patterns were very similar to Aero's. Patterns do not fall off the back of a truck or do they?

 

[Edward]

Sandy alexander made his money out of mass-market retail; I suspect he might not have expected the chappenged of such a niche market to be as different as they are. Even putting aside the fact that many fins the similarity of their designs to the Aero range questionable (which has to hurt them in the target market), as a business they'll never get anywhere in this niche if all they have to offer is "me too", selling themselves a a poor man's Aero. The relaunched Mascot leathers are obviously looking to pick up business from the rocker crowd that can't afford a Lewis (which was in part Mascot's historical market), but they're doing it with jackets that are based on their own designs (the Black Rock, for instance, seems to predate similar Lewises by some years), and carving out their own identity. The problem with being the poor man's anything is that you end up being perceived as a] lesser by default and b] folks don't stick with you once they can afford to trade up.

 

[Edward]

WL had no machining expertise, though I guess he knew the suppliers etc.

It's certainly not unimaginable that he told Sandy a few fibs about his true capabilities. The collaborations with other companies and AL that have come to fruition (Nigel Cabourn, Iron Heart) were with partners who had formerly worked with Aero, so he took that know-how with him.

Yes and no. Remember that there were a bunch of employees that couldn't work with WL that were then able to be rehired when Aero all of a sudden found themselves without most of their machinists. He did manage to keep things afloat, but he was creating enough problems that were eventually going to catch up with him, and the company itself. When you take over a solid company, it just takes a while to run it down into the ground.

There's been a lot of talk about a figure of "86% of Aero's staff" going to AL. The figures that came out in the trail were that ten machinists chose to go to AL with Will, while 9 former Aero staff who had left citing difficulty with working for Will chose to return. I think we can fairly say he was something of a divisive character.

As far as I can see, Sandy Alexander is bank-rolling the company, but day-to-day management has been left to Will Lauder, and subsequently Steve Toohey, who seem well out of thier depth, hence all the very badly written statements that have appeared on the website (bad grammar and punctuation aside, allegations, untruths, and threats), and the high rate of page revisionism.
Maybe they write in haste, and revise it when thier heads have cleared? Or maybe Sandy tells them to take that stuff down before they get into trouble?
Who knows.

There's clearly somebody putting stuff up that on occasion could get them into legal hot water, and somebody else calling them out on it and persuading them to take it down. They don't seem to have much horsesense about this being both bad PR and legally risky. I have visions of some harassed solicitor somewhere freaking out every time one of these things goes up - more Ted from Scrubs than Saul Goodman... Or maybe Ted is already working for 'Doctor' Bill Kelso.

Considering Wanz's date of 12/14, SA had a whole year to consider the way the winds were blowing and the natures of the people he'd hired. I'm wondering if the name-change is also perhaps his way of distancing himself as a prelude to his getting out of it entirely, especially after the resurgence of Aero.

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they folded the company in the next year or so. It doesn't seem to have gained much market traction, and they're in the sort of niche market where brand loyalty runs high, and the negative publicity around the Lauder trial and the perceived attempt to buy Aero out from under Ken, similarity in their range, and so on doesn't play well. That their short wait-time - trumpeted at one point as two weeks - was able to be pushed as a selling point compared to Aero's three months suggests to me that they're not exactly being flooded with offers. I suspect their chance of staying in the game now will depend on one of two things: either they will pull in some big contract to make for another label (in the way at one time Aero expanded significantly under the Levis contract), or they'll come up with a whole new line, dropping the patterns that match Aero jackets and the negatives that come with that, and restore some good will in the process. If right from the off when they set up with Will they'd started with something different than what Aero are doing, there would be a lot less criticism of AL as an operation as distinct from Will Lauder's criminal activity, IMO. Start with a couple of models, work it up slowly - like the relaunched Mascot are doing - and build the company organically. They seemed to want to have an operation like Aero right from the off. We can but speculate as to how they thought this possible, but it does seem to me that they assumed Aero would go under or have to outsource to meet existing orders (maybe it was in preparation for that outcome that Will took boxes of Aero labels out of the factory?), and that either way they would be able simply to fill the gap. [huh]

 

[Sloan1874]

It beggars belief that having decided to re-launch themselves in a blaze of publicity, the first thing the present under their new label is another poorly executed Aero rip-off. Haven't these people learned anything from the past two or three years?
It wasn't just about Will, though the idea that Aero's management were delighted to accept that he had just turned up with hundreds of patterns that were his does seem bizarre. It suggests that Sandy Alexander was a wide-eyed naif, and that massive success of Schuh - which was in its day a huge deal, though not so much now - was more a happy accident than the work of a sharp-eyed businessman with his head screwed on.
As it is, the blurb that suggests the "Bermondsy" has "a trimmer fit more appropriate for the 21st century" seems to have missed the point that people in the 1920s/30s were, for reasons, whip-thin. If you were going to really going to accommodate the 21st century physique, it would be closer to the dimensions of a leather sleeping bag!

 

[I would go out tonight]

It beggars belief that having decided to re-launch themselves in a blaze of publicity, the first thing the present under their new label is another poorly executed Aero rip-off. Haven't these people learned anything from the past two or three years?

At the time of the Aeromarine/Simmons Bilt discussion I was prepared to give Alexanders the benefit of the doubt because there were a few Heron, Aeromarine, Aeronaut about. However, that Bermondsey is just taking the p*ss.

I imagine that SA would have expected WL to bring experience and a thorough knowledge of Aero's patterns but surely now after the full extent of the duplicity has been revealed, he won't keep bank rolling AL/SB.

 

[Carlos840]

Where is this Bermondsy you guys speak of? All i can see are the new SB Vintage Racer and the Clayton!

 

[Otter]

It is there, check out their vintage designs, page 2 if you are using the default 10 per page.

 

[Big J]

It beggars belief that having decided to re-launch themselves in a blaze of publicity, the first thing the present under their new label is another poorly executed Aero rip-off. Haven't these people learned anything from the past two or three years?
It wasn't just about Will, though the idea that Aero's management were delighted to accept that he had just turned up with hundreds of patterns that were his does seem bizarre. It suggests that Sandy Alexander was a wide-eyed naif, and that massive success of Schuh - which was in its day a huge deal, though not so much now - was more a happy accident than the work of a sharp-eyed businessman with his head screwed on.
As it is, the blurb that suggests the "Bermondsy" has "a trimmer fit more appropriate for the 21st century" seems to have missed the point that people in the 1920s/30s were, for reasons, whip-thin. If you were going to really going to accommodate the 21st century physique, it would be closer to the dimensions of a leather sleeping bag!

You see, THAT'S what I want from my vintage inspired clothing; something more....21st Century, y'know? lol

 

[Edward]

Mn. I think that's another sign theyvdidn't really think through the company identity. Vintage design with a modern fit is neither one thing nor the other. It's like making an A2 with bigger pockets and a fleece lining, then trying to sell it to the A2 crowd as "improved".

 

[Big J]

Mn. I think that's another sign theyvdidn't really think through the company identity. Vintage design with a modern fit is neither one thing nor the other. It's like making an A2 with bigger pockets and a fleece lining, then trying to sell it to the A2 crowd as "improved".

Hey, if they want to carve out an identity for themselves, why don't they try 21st century clothing with a vintage fit? I'm just throwin' that out there...

Actually, I could never wear a tweed jacket with leather elbow patches when I teach at university since I'm at that age wear I'd actually look like an old man instead of a 'hipster', but I could really go for a leather jacket with tweed elbow patches (if anyone's gonna make that, call it the 'Dr. Big J').

 

[HoosierDaddy]

It is quite clear to me that several people collaborated in how they were going to start this new leather jacket company, especially the financier. 'Since they won't sell, just bring the remains of Aero over here'. Whatever you can selvedge or manipulate. We can set up shop, machinery, despite any objection. 'Aero will have so many other problems to deal with than concentrating on us'. This should be obvious.