Aero USN Type M422a vs 38-1711-P Type A-2

[AngryNJ]

Hello everyone. I'm trying to decided between the Aero USN Type M422a and the Aero 38-1711-P Type A-2.

Anyone have both? Anyone care to comment on the differences when worn on a day to day basis? Is one warmer than the other?

I know the Navy jacket comes in goat. I have a halfbelt in goat and its quite stiff. I love the mouton collar and have been wanting one.

I plan on getting the A2 in horsehide since I dont have an aero in hh yet.

The sad part is that I will probably end up with both, as I am a leather jacket addict.....

Thanks for any comments on either jacket.

 

[Jeff M]

Mouton collars can be WARM!!
I like the look of them, but find I don't wear my mouton collared coat unless it is darned cold out.
A2's are not warm jackets. Good for mild weather.

I actually have a M422a on order from Aero now, without the mouton collar. Where I live, I should be comfortable almost year round. Not to hot....not to cold.

Re; goat vs HH, I suspect Aero would make you a M422a out of HH rather than goat if you asked them to.
You note you own a halfbelt in goat and it is quite stiff.
Generally I find goat to be soft compared to HH, Especially Aero's FQHH...which feels like you are putting on a suit of armor. Aero's medium weight HH, such as their jerky finish or smooth medium weight HH, is less stiff than their FQHH.
(I actually like Aero's FQHH a lot. Once it breaks in a bit it molds to your body, develops a nice patina.)

 

[Justhandguns]

Mouton collars can be WARM!!
I like the look of them, but find I don't wear my mouton collared coat unless it is darned cold out.
A2's are not warm jackets. Good for mild weather.

I actually have a M422a on order from Aero now, without the mouton collar. Where I live, I should be comfortable almost year round. Not to hot....not to cold.

Re; goat vs HH, I suspect Aero would make you a M422a out of HH rather than goat if you asked them to.
You note you own a halfbelt in goat and it is quite stiff.
Generally I find goat to be soft compared to HH, Especially Aero's FQHH...which feels like you are putting on a suit of armor. Aero's medium weight HH, such as their jerky finish or smooth medium weight HH, is less stiff than their FQHH.

I agree. The mouton collar is one thing that I always hesitate to get. Aero's HH for A-2 are generally quite soft, when compared to say, ELC. You can always request them to tailor the 422 with HH anyway. I also think that the M422a may have a better fit than any of the A-2. So the choice is always yours.

 

[Jeff M]

Re; the M422a fit...

It is quite a trim fitting jacket, so be sure Aero has all the measurements they need.
I take a size 44R mens jacket, and all my Aero's are size 44.
Aero recommended I go with a size 46 in the M422a.

 

[Edward]

I have two military Aeros - an A2 in goat, and the AN6552 (which is, to all intents and purposes, the same jacket as the M422a). Obviously can't comment on hide coparing the two a they are the same, but on your other issues:

1] the USN jacket is much neater. I wear a 42 in all my Aeros. The AN6552 fits more like my Thirties half belt than my A2. It's fine for me, though I would be tempted to go a size up were I ordering new (bought it used a few years ago).

2] The USN jacket is definitely one that is somewhat warmer than the A2. My (horse) ELC A2 is little cooler again than my Aero, as it has the original style cotton lining. The Aero is style after a jacket modified in the field with a red silk-type lining, which I find slightly warmer. The Rayon lining of the AN6552 is definitely warmer - partly down to the neater fit, I suspect, but also it doesn't 'breathe' quite so much as the cotton. The mouton collar around the neck definitely makes it feel warmer too.

If you didn't fancy the mouton but wanted the neater fit of a USN jacket, you could always ask Aero to make you one of their ANJ-3s (a jacket which never went into full service, being rapidly superceded by the B-10 and then B-15). Those are basically an M422a less the mouton collar. Be warned, though, they're cut even neater - I briefly owned a used one in a 42 and it really was too tight for me, especially over the shoulders. Definitely go up a size if you go that route.

Overall, definitely enough of a difference between the two that it is easy to justify owning both when you can afford it. I might suggest you opt for the USN jacket first from Aero, as it is, with a little patience (and depending on your size), relatively easy to track down a good, used A2 from ELC, Aero, etc on eBay at markedly below the new price. Do give some consideration to the goat, though - it really is a superb hide. It's not one that will age as rapidly in looks as the horse, though - goat will always look a bit 'new' - if that matters to you.

 

[JanSolo]

Go for the M422a,
a much more lavish and better fitting (although the 38-1711 IS nice) jacket which offers tremendous comfort due to under arm gussets and bi-swing back.

A couple of things to alter on your future M422a:

- Change the deadstock single weave waistband for an A2 type double weave jersey waistband.

- No rayon lining but ask for durable cotton for the body (B10 gabardine, cotton tartan or drill) and heavy rayon for the sleeves.

- Take a nickel or brass AERO branded zipper which is 100% hassle free compared to a TALON.

- Make up your mind about the mouton. Which colour do you want? Dark brown, mid brown, rust or gold?

Mid brown and dark brown look best IMO rust is too reddish, almost like salmon adn gold is too blonde for my taste.

 

[CBI]

Unless you are a vintage collector or are a hard size to fit, I would opt for an original G-1. They are close enough to an 422 and are a much better price and look (IMHO) better than the Aero and its an actual USN jacket. You can buy a really nice original G-1 on eBay for say $250-300. Then save the difference for a nice A-2 from Good Wear or maybe ELC. You can even find a used Eastmans on eBay for $350-550. Again, not sure what your size requirements are. This sounds harsher than it is but in general, unless its a size issue, I see no reason to buy a repro G-1 family jacket with so many nice well priced originals out there. Jackets half or a third the price of a repro. I guess with a repro, one gets a nice new jacket but these things look there best when broken in anyway.

Ideally, having a G-1/422 AND an A-2 is the way to go. The USN jacket is a more ergonomic design but the A-2 has more of an iconic look. No worries about the mouton collar on the 422/G-1 very comfortable.

 

[too much coffee]

I agree totally with CBI. Buy an original G-1, then buy a quality repro or original A-2 for the daily wearer.
Just my take, but those who buy a repro G-1/M422(a) are doing so for the fashion statement........which is OK if that's what you're after.
Look at it this way; the year is 1960 and the market is flooded with WWII era A-2 jackets that don't cost a whole lot of money. Would one buy a reproduced A-2, if there was such a thing in 1960, or the original issued jacket?

Best regards, coffee

 

[Jeff M]

Go for the M422a,
a much more lavish and better fitting (although the 38-1711 IS nice) jacket which offers tremendous comfort due to under arm gussets and bi-swing back.

A couple of things to alter on your future M422a:

- Change the deadstock single weave waistband for an A2 type double weave jersey waistband.

- No rayon lining but ask for durable cotton for the body (B10 gabardine, cotton tartan or drill) and heavy rayon for the sleeves.

- Take a nickel or brass AERO branded zipper which is 100% hassle free compared to a TALON.

- Make up your mind about the mouton. Which colour do you want? Dark brown, mid brown, rust or gold?

Mid brown and dark brown look best IMO rust is too reddish, almost like salmon adn gold is too blonde for my taste.

Jan, why do you recommend changing out the standard rayon lining?

 

[JanSolo]

Jan, why do you recommend changing out the standard rayon lining?

Although it looks and feels good it is not the most durable option there is. Rayon is authentic, I know, but it tends to fray rather quickly in the neck area, especially where the inside leather facing meets the lining halfway between neck and top of your shoulder. Heavy duty dacron (nylon) would be great but since it is not available from Aero I would always go for a combo lining...

 

[Marv]

Unless you are a vintage collector or are a hard size to fit, I would opt for an original G-1. They are close enough to an 422 and are a much better price and look (IMHO) better than the Aero and its an actual USN jacket. You can buy a really nice original G-1 on eBay for say $250-300. Then save the difference for a nice A-2 from Good Wear or maybe ELC. You can even find a used Eastmans on eBay for $350-550. Again, not sure what your size requirements are. This sounds harsher than it is but in general, unless its a size issue, I see no reason to buy a repro G-1 family jacket with so many nice well priced originals out there. Jackets half or a third the price of a repro. I guess with a repro, one gets a nice new jacket but these things look there best when broken in anyway.

Ideally, having a G-1/422 AND an A-2 is the way to go. The USN jacket is a more ergonomic design but the A-2 has more of an iconic look. No worries about the mouton collar on the 422/G-1 very comfortable.

I also agree with CBI, try for an original G1.....I picked up a 1968 Martin Lane Co. G1 size 46 in great condition off ebay for just over £100, all it needed was a little clean up with water to take off the surface dust etc.

Having said that though, the quality is no where near as good as my ELC G1 repro but I got that for a song also.

 

[fnoprx]

From a practical - not a collector - standpoint I find the G-1 a more useful jacket in cooler weather. A mouton collar in my opinion looks great, and is very useful when it gets windy. Also the G-1 has better (larger) pockets plus a roomy inside pocket as well, no problem getting my phone, wallet, knife etc. to fit in there. That can be a problem with an A-2. I own both, but the G-1 gets a lot more wear.

 

[Edward]

Just my take, but those who buy a repro G-1/M422(a) are doing so for the fashion statement........which is OK if that's what you're after.

I put it to the witness that any of us not serving military authorised to wear one of these jackets as uniform is wearing it as a fashion statement, whether repro, surplus or bullet-hole ridden with the actual blood of a serving airman on it....

If you're not looking for a specifically WW2 era spec jacket, a used issue G1 does seem to be a good bargain (assuming you can find one in your size), though from what I have read in these parts I wouldn't want one of the later cowhide jackets as it seems there was an appreciable drop in quality after they stopped using goat (no reflection on the hide, more a general lowering of standards at that point, from what I gather).

 

[too much coffee]

I put it to the witness that any of us not serving military authorised to wear one of these jackets as uniform is wearing it as a fashion statement, whether repro, surplus or bullet-hole ridden with the actual blood of a serving airman on it....

If you're not looking for a specifically WW2 era spec jacket, a used issue G1 does seem to be a good bargain (assuming you can find one in your size), though from what I have read in these parts I wouldn't want one of the later cowhide jackets as it seems there was an appreciable drop in quality after they stopped using goat (no reflection on the hide, more a general lowering of standards at that point, from what I gather).

Someone tell me where I'm going wrong, but how can wearing a 40 - 70 year old Vietnam or WWII era jacket be considered a "fashion statement?"

When I don a wartime service leather, cloth or nylon jacket, I can assure you it's not to make a fashion statement.



coffee

 

[Jeff M]

I put it to the witness that any of us not serving military authorised to wear one of these jackets as uniform is wearing it as a fashion statement,......

.....

Was thinking the same thing myself.

 

[ButteMT61]

I think it's because the likes of <insert designer's name here> have made A2 and G1 "looking" jackets for $1000-$3000 that some might say that.
I personally LOVE the styles of the WWII era military jackets from the US, UK, and Russia to some extent. The German stuff is likewise attractive, but has such a huge level of baggage, it can't be enjoyed (by me)
Sadly, a great design will be copied. And a Vet may not know between decent guys (like us) and the average poser who would protest a war on any merit in a Calvin Klein. Just my thoughts...tough subject with no easy answers...

 

[too much coffee]

Anyone else want to weigh in...............When you wear your ORIGINAL G-1, A-2, Irvin, etc.....; do you wear it because you consider it a fashion statement?

Particularly would like to hear from aswatland, CBI, John Lever and Spitfire.

Thanks, coffee

 

[ButteMT61]

Anyone else want to weigh in...............When you wear your ORIGINAL G-1, A-2, Irvin, etc.....; do you wear it because you consider it a fashion statement?

Particularly would like to hear from aswatland, CBI, John Lever and Spitfire.

Thanks, coffee

I just asked my brother - ret USMC pilot. He does not wear any old gear.
I asked a friend - ret USN jet pilot. He would wear his original, but it is too small and not in good shape. He just bought a USWings to enjoy. It's about the memories for him. And he loves the jacket.
I am not a Vet, so I don't matter in this context. My Dad was an Airman on B-36's. He didn't keep any jackets, but I got him interested in a D1, which he had. For him, it would also be about memories, not fashion, FWIW. I'll back out of this piece of the thread now...

 

[AngryNJ]

Thank you all for your responses. I appreciate all the feedback. I am not sure which jacket I will be getting, but I am leaning towards the A2 since I think I would like a lighter jacket for now.

As for the whole "fashion statement" comment... I don't quite understand the term. What exactly IS a "fashion statement". Does it mean you are wearing the jacket because you just like the way it looks? Dont care about the way it looks, just wear it because its popular? Does it mean you wear something because someone else tells you its what you should wear?

I like the style of clothing from the 30s-50s. I like the quality garment that Aero produces.... Am I buying Aero A2 as a fashion statement in your opinion? Does it matter? All interesting questions I suppose.

 

[Jeff M]

For me, a "fashion statement" means I am wearing something not soley for it's function or because I am required to as part of an organizations uniform requirement.
I believe that everything somebody wears that is not worn soley for those reasons makes a "statement" about that person..conscious or not.
They had choices. They chose to wear what they did.

I may like the way something looks, memories it carries, or what, at least in my mind, it pays tribute to. My "fashion" is making a statement...if only to me.

Using the A2 design as an example....
If I want a medium weight jacket that has a comfortable full range of motion, is made of low maintenance, durable materials, and/or is low cost, I have other jackets I will wear.
If I want a jacket design that I think looks sharp for that outing and/or reminds me of my father's and uncle's service in WWII, and am not concerned about the other factors, I'll wear my A2.