Aero USN Type M422a vs 38-1711-P Type A-2

[too much coffee]

ButteMT61 and Jeff M. : Thank you both for your clarity and justified reasons. Clearly we wear these vintage jackets for a multitude of reasons; but those reasons all bestow honor and respect for those who wore the same jackets fresh from being issued from military supply channels.

Wearing these original jackets to create a fashion image? Not hardly.

Regards, coffee

 

[Jeff M]

ButteMT61 and Jeff M. : Thank you both for your clarity and justified reasons. Clearly we wear these vintage jackets for a multitude of reasons; but those reasons all bestow honor and respect for those who wore the same jackets fresh from being issued from military supply channels.

Wearing these original jackets to create a fashion image? Not hardly.

Regards, coffee

Re; true "vintage" jackets....
I am an odd size, and have a very hard time (read "haven't yet) finding military jackets from this era that fit me.
Companies like Aero and GoodWear, with their custom sizing, allow me to get jackets I can actually comfortably wear without my arms getting lost in the sleeves and the jacket length way below where it was designed to be.

I'd love to get a true vintage A2 or G1...but I wouldn't wear them much compared to my newer versions.

 

[ButteMT61]

Coffee, et al. I love the look of many old things. I have a house that's 105 this year. I love the WWII era for the style, sacrifice, common sense of country, etc. Those A2's just hit it for me.
My son and I met Ed "Doc" Pepping last weekend. He was one of the original "Band Of Brothers". As usual, I love these guys while also feeling inadequate. I tear up every time I'm in their presence. Happens when we go to air shows or wherever these guys take the time to come out and meet/talk to us. My son also has this sese of admiration at 18 (and well before)
He prodly wears my great grandfather's dress Army (WWII) uniform to events such as Fort MacArthur Air Raid days. Looks like a million bucks and is so proud while wearing it. Make no mistake, there's a difference between why people do things, and I'm confident when I wear these articles, it's out of absolute respect for Vet's and their legacy. To me, it's important to keep it alive, and hell, why not look good doing it!

Cheers all. Good thread.

 

[Stearmen]

News Real Two Step

I think every one is forgetting one important thing, the A2 was designed from the start to be a fashion statement! Thats right, the Army wanted a jacket that looked real smart, expecially on news reals, ever notice the first men to wear them were record brakers. It's not a very practical jacket, but Hollywood has used it ever since, because it looks good. The Navy saw the publicity the Army jacket got so they came out with one of their own. It is a little more practical, hence not as desirable for movies and fashion. It was all about looking good in the public eye, and hopefully getting more tax dollars for their respective branch!

 

[fnoprx]

This fashion vs. style discussion is interesting. In my opinion fashion is fleeting, you have to keep changing to keep up - whereas style is more permanent. Take rockabilly: this is a style that has existed for decades, and once in a while the fashion industry picks up on it, just to let it go again. And they almost always get the details wrong. So, you can maintain a rockabilly style - and once every 5 or 10 years you look fashionable instead of just stylish. Most people here seem style conscious, but not particularly fashion conscious. Which is why I come here...!

 

[Edward]

Someone tell me where I'm going wrong, but how can wearing a 40 - 70 year old Vietnam or WWII era jacket be considered a "fashion statement?"

When I don a wartime service leather, cloth or nylon jacket, I can assure you it's not to make a fashion statement.



coffee

We obviously read that term differently. It's not so loaded a term to me: the way I have always used (and heard it used) is simply that anything I wear by choice (as opposed to a uniform, say) is unavoidably a "fashion statement", as however unconsciously I am making a statement about myself, even if that is one as simple as "I like how this jacket looks". If you don't care for the word "fashion", substitute "style" - same thing.

Perhaps I misread what was being said, but it seemed to me that it was being implied that a reproduction jacket is intrinsically inferior to "the real thing", an actual issue garment having some sort of legitimacy that a reproduction cannot. Otherwise, utilitarian considerations such as an issue G1 from the Sixties being significantly cheaper in some cases than a repro WW2 era jacket, I don't see any significant difference between me choosing to wear a repro jacket or "one that was there" - when I wasn't. [huh] Kinda reminds me of when I was eighteen or so, and much to my horror, "cargo trousers" came into fashion. Combats, as we knew them, were something I and my fellow off-mainstream peers had been wearing for several years, and we were viciously snobbish towards anyone who wore the "inferior", non-military issue kind, in the belief that they were somehow superior by very dint of being "the real thing". My point was I find this rather an odd view to be held by anyone (such as the majority of us here) who was neither issued with nor "earned" the jackets - call it fashion, style, whatever... we're making a choice to wear them for other reasons. Personally, for me it's all about the style of flying jackets in general and I'm actually less interested in the military context in which they were worn that I am in the jackets themselves, but I'm sure (as illustrated on this very thread) there's a very wide range of reasons people continue to be attracted to this style of jacket. It's that very wide appeal that has maintained the A2, G1 etc as icons for so long.

 

[Nathan Flowers]

Hello everyone. I'm trying to decided between the Aero USN Type M422a and the Aero 38-1711-P Type A-2.

Anyone have both? Anyone care to comment on the differences when worn on a day to day basis? Is one warmer than the other?

I know the Navy jacket comes in goat. I have a halfbelt in goat and its quite stiff. I love the mouton collar and have been wanting one.

I plan on getting the A2 in horsehide since I dont have an aero in hh yet.

The sad part is that I will probably end up with both, as I am a leather jacket addict.....

Thanks for any comments on either jacket.

test.

 

[too much coffee]

Good exchange of information as to "why we wear" gentleman.

I apologize to the moderators and to AngryNJ for taking this post way off base.

Edward, as always, your intellect and broad spectrum of experiences lends an altruistic approach to the subject.

I gotta go out and hack up a 15yr. old mesquite tree in the back yard that blew over in a recent Arizona monsoon.

Best regards, coffee

 

[CBI]

I love the style/history/etc of these jackets and wear them because I like them and collect them. That's really about it. I never think about a fashion statement or anything like that. They are just cool looking jackets from an era where I liked the style/history/etc. Not sure I agree that an ELC G-1 family jacket is much better quality than some of the M422's and early 60's era G-1's I have owned. Agree the newest issue G-1's are crapola..........

Good luck with what sounds like an A-2 purchase.

 

[CBI]

deleted

 

[too much coffee]

I love the style/history/etc of these jackets and wear them because I like them and collect them. That's really about it. I never think about a fashion statement or anything like that. They are just cool looking jackets from an era where I liked the style/history/etc. Not sure I agree that an ELC G-1 family jacket is much better quality than some of the M422's and early 60's era G-1's I have owned. Agree the newest issue G-1's are crapola..........

Good luck with what sounds like an A-2 purchase.

Thanks for your response CBI. I requested your input because of your vast knowledge (and inventory) of military flight jackets, particularly your stable full of original and
quality reproductions of the A-2 jacket.

Regards, coffee

 

[CBI]

thanks tmc

 

[AngryNJ]

Go for the M422a,
a much more lavish and better fitting (although the 38-1711 IS nice) jacket which offers tremendous comfort due to under arm gussets and bi-swing back.

A couple of things to alter on your future M422a:

- Change the deadstock single weave waistband for an A2 type double weave jersey waistband.

- No rayon lining but ask for durable cotton for the body (B10 gabardine, cotton tartan or drill) and heavy rayon for the sleeves.

- Take a nickel or brass AERO branded zipper which is 100% hassle free compared to a TALON.

- Make up your mind about the mouton. Which colour do you want? Dark brown, mid brown, rust or gold?

Mid brown and dark brown look best IMO rust is too reddish, almost like salmon adn gold is too blonde for my taste.

I plan on eventually getting the M422a, but I am leaning still towards the A2. Which hide do you think for the A2? I was thinking of oil pull and maybe the dark berry knit, but worry this is a bit too dark? I already have a goat halfbelt, and want something a bit softer. My goat stands up on its own like other people horsehide.

 

[ButteMT61]

I recently saw an Aero A-2 "Anniversary" in seal/berry knits. It looked fantastic! It all depends on your likes/needs. Very sharp looking jacket, IMHO.

 

[Edward]

Somebody got a stonker of a bargain on eBay UK this week: a seal Aero sold for GBP139!

 

[Jeff M]

I plan on eventually getting the M422a, but I am leaning still towards the A2. Which hide do you think for the A2? I was thinking of oil pull and maybe the dark berry knit, but worry this is a bit too dark? I already have a goat halfbelt, and want something a bit softer. My goat stands up on its own like other people horsehide.

I think you'll find the goat is softer than the oil pull HH.

 

[Jeff M]

I plan on eventually getting the M422a, but I am leaning still towards the A2. Which hide do you think for the A2? I was thinking of oil pull and maybe the dark berry knit, but worry this is a bit too dark? I already have a goat halfbelt, and want something a bit softer. My goat stands up on its own like other people horsehide.

Email Aero. Ask them to send you samples of the hides you are considering. Ask them which is softer.
I think you'll find the goat is softer than the oil pull HH.

 

[AngryNJ]

So I am still agonizing over this. Which is not unusual for me. Took me forever to pull the trigger on my aero halfbelt. I have decided to get the M422a with some modifications. I want the nickel aero zip like I have on my halfbelt. I would like corduroy lined pockets.

The big decision: I am not sure about the mouton collar. I'm leaning towards not having it.

I'm thinking it may be too warm. That is my main decision now.

Secondary is the lining after hearing JanSolos comments. I may switch out but have cotton in my halfbelt and would like something easier to get in and out of.

I was also considering getting this jacket from Lost Worlds just to try them out, but its alot of money and I know aero better than I do Lost Worlds. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Jeff M]

I recently received an Aero M422a, goatskin. Love the jacket.
I went with no mouton color...and, unless I lived somewhere where the jacket got a lot of wear in relatively cold weather (50's or below) would do so again.
I tend to be "warm blooded". A mouton collar worn in the low 60's is tolerable if I'm not moving around much. Warmer than that it starts to get uncomfortable.
I asked them to use a standard Aero zipper such as they use on their Highwayman, and went with all cotton drill lining.
In retrospect, I think their standard sateen lining, if just used for the body and not the sleeves, would have been fine.
I think, if they don't already do it, you can ask them to use the sateen lining over the cotton. I know they do this for the sleeves as part of their "standard" sateen sleeve lining manufacture...not sure about the body lining.
I would avoid the sateen/ double lining in the sleeves. It tends to bunch up.

Re; Aero vs. Lost Worlds..
for me it's a no brainer.
Aero has my measurements down to a "T". Every jacket I have received from them has been a perfect fit...great quality. No desire to experiment with a new manufacturer at those prices.
Are Lost World's jackets even custom fit? Even if they are, I've had some problems with "custom fit" jackets from manufacturers over the years....despite VERY careful repeated measurements of my shoulders/arms/chest/waist etc. as per their directions (my wifes hobby is sewing. She just rolls her eyes when she sees me approaching with a tape measure. "What, again??").
Never had that problem with Aero.

 

[ButteMT61]

Yeah, I'd do the sateen in the sleeves too. It's hard to get some shirts/sweaters through the sleeves with drill. But oddly, not with my A-2's. Not sure why.