Aero Leather Clothing trial update

[pawineguy]

The other shocking thing for me today, was that KC kept Will's son in his employ after Will was run out. There is no way in HELL that I would have done that, no matter how bad I might have felt for him. To leave Will with a contact (his own son no less) within the company would have been much too risky from my perspective, but I guess it goes to show the quality of person that KC is compared to WL.

 

[Fanch]

Superfluous, you are able not only to hone like a laser in on pertinent questions but articulate your points of view equally as well. At no point have you implied IH of any wrongdoing, although you have definitely invaded their comfort zone by asking hard questions that they obviously do not want to hear. If storse was received unknowingly by IH and then sold, then both IH and their customers would have been victimized. Like you, I am bewildered by their response.

 

[Big J]

Interesting points.
At no point has Superfluous claimed that WL and Giles at IH conspired to deceive Aero customers by selling Storse via Aero without Kens knowledge, and sell Storse via IH without the owner Haraki's knowledge (assisted by the language barrier?). No such allegation has been made.
I therefore find it odd that Giles isn't putting as much daylight between IH and WL as he can manage, but rather is attempting to manage the narrative.
It's not his wrongdoing, IH was deceived by WL as well, why shouldn't he slam the guy and defend his companies reputation?
p(^_^)q

 

[Superfluous]

Another person who I feel bad for is Haraki. Keep in mind, I'm pretty sure that the Aero/Iron Heart relationship was brokered by Iron Heart UK. Giles' posts (or lack of posts) about Will and Alexander are the only opinions we get "from" Iron Heart, but the fact of the matter is that Haraki (who started and owns Iron Heart) is not in a position to easily express his opinions (language barriers etc), even though in fact it is HIS brand that may be negatively affected by Will Lauder.

Good point Ben. I don't know anything about IH's ownership, or the relationship between IH UK/Giles and IH Japan. I imagine this is particularly unsettling for IH Japan if its UK affiliate is creating these problems and exposing the entire brand to harm, yet inexplicably supporting the person who victimized IH and its customers. Perhaps Giles and UK IH are facing serious questions from IH Japan?

If storse was received unknowingly by IH and then sold, then both IH and their customers would have been victimized. Like you, I am bewildered by their response.

Agreed!

Lets face it folks . . . there is an enormous elephant in the room and no one wants to come out and pose the question on everyone's mind.

[video=youtube;UXoNE14U_zM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM[/video]

 

[handymike]

Sloan,
Thanks for the Trial Narrative Installments.
Your posts are informative, well written, and a great read.
I'm not making many comments, but I'm definitely looking forward to your subsequent chapters.
Thanks again!

 

[jlanderson]

I'm just gobsmacked. After reading each day's installment, I think it can't get any more bizarre, but darned if it doesn't the next day.

And the fact that Mr. Calder kept Lauder's son on at Aero speaks volumes as to his character and sense of honor.

 

[Sloan1874]

Having looked through the court testimony, I'll be splitting the police raid and its fall-out in to two sections, otherwise I'd be here all night. So a couple more nights or so to go and then a pause until sentencing on May 29th.
Ps. stranger to come. Seriously.

 

[Fanch]

I'm just gobsmacked. After reading each day's installment, I think it can't get any more bizarre, but darned if it doesn't the next day.

And the fact that Mr. Calder kept Lauder's son on at Aero speaks volumes as to his character and sense of honor.

No question that KC is generous to a fault, intensely loyal to employees, but a formidable enemy to a foe who is both dishonorable and dishonest.

 

[pawineguy]

Lets face it folks . . . there is an enormous elephant in the room and no one wants to come out and pose the question on everyone's mind.

I can think of at least two big questions that I'd like answered, that we haven't dared broach, and I won't broach until this runs its course. Unfortunately I think there are things that we will never know and it'll drive me a bit crazy.

 

[mattp]

IH was definitely sold storse, presumably unknowingly. The whole nature of Iron Heart is that it's heavy, over engineered, solid clothing / footwear / accessories etc, so the super heavy 'horsehide' fits that aesthetic. I bought one, which was subsequently examined by Aero and replaced with actual FQHH. Will was right, it was an incredible jacket, but not what I wanted.

 

[Otter]

Having looked through the court testimony, I'll be splitting the police raid and its fall-out in to two sections, otherwise I'd be here all night. So a couple more nights or so to go and then a pause until sentencing on May 29th.
Ps. stranger to come. Seriously.

Seriously ? Unless Zombies are involved I cannot see how it can become any stranger.[huh]

 

[ProteinNerd]

Ps. stranger to come. Seriously.

opcorn:

 

[Edward]

I suppose that Aero can now recoup some of their significant cost for replacing the "storse" jackets by re-labeling them as heavy steerhide and listing on their used jackets website? Or keep them for possible civil litigation?

I'm less familair than Sloan with this procedural side of how they do things in the Scottish jurisdiction, but essemtially they'd have to take a separate, civil action to settle the matter of any perceived loss caused to Aero by the actions of which Will Lauder has been convicted. This goes back to the nature of the relationships involved: the law of theft is a matter of public law, i.e. law regulating the relationship between the individual and the state. The state says "don't steal", for all sorts of reasons we don't need to go over here, and has its own punishments for those who break that rule. The relationships between individuals is a matter of civil law. The stolen property in physical goods directly involved in this case will, as a matter of course, be returned to Aero, but if they wish to recoup subsequent financial loss caused by this theft, they;d have to take a separate legal action at civil law on that ground. The storse misrepresentation wasn't directly at issue in this case (no fraud charges were brought), but Aero could seek to bring a civil action to recover financial loss on that basis. Equally, the alleged infringement of intellectual property would properly be a matter for civil law here. Of course, part of the calculation whether to pursue a civil action for any persons so considering will always be the expense of the proceedings. A successful claimant can expect to have their costs reimbursed, in addition to damages, but civil proceedings can be hugely expensive across all UK jurisdictions, and there are often cases where it's just not worth suing a defendant who can't afford to pay out, and then being left out of pocket.

It's impossible to know who it was, but serious respect is due to the customer who received Storse and knew it wasn't horse, sent it back, and raised the flag on this scam.

That customer has powerful hide identification skills!(´･_･`)

As I recall, nobody spotted it until Aero and Horween issued their joint statement re storse, though as Sloan mentions there were comments about the heavy nature of some of the "horsehide" coming out around that time. Maybe the customers who originally complained just weren't manly enough for a heavy hide jacket. :lol:

To be clear, I am not accusing IH of any wrongdoing. On the other hand, IH's conduct is confounding to say the least.

I think it's fair to suggest they could, perhaps, handle the situation better, however it's also worth restating that, per the Contempt of Court Act 1981 (which also covers Scotland), the criminal legal proceedings against Will Lauder are still active, and for any of the parties concerned to issue a statement of any real significance prior to the conclusion of proceedings with the sentencing on 29th May would be unwise. I'd would certainly expect we'll see a statement from Aero then, likely also Alexander Leathers. Perhaps IH will make some sort of statement then too.

When these storse jackets are finally flogged off, they should be relabled as "Limited Edition Finest Storse". Will be a big hit and prized collector items.

:lol: That's gonig to be interesting when they turn up on eBay in twenty years' time....

The other shocking thing for me today, was that KC kept Will's son in his employ after Will was run out. There is no way in HELL that I would have done that, no matter how bad I might have felt for him. To leave Will with a contact (his own son no less) within the company would have been much too risky from my perspective, but I guess it goes to show the quality of person that KC is compared to WL.

I'm not familiar with Scottish employment law, but I doubt it would have viewed kindly kicking him out on his ear on the sole basis of what his father had done. Nonetheless, I do agree that it is a mark of how decent the Calders have been through all of this that they didn't want to just boot him out immediately, and didn't immediately assume him to be involved in the wrongdoing.

IH was definitely sold storse, presumably unknowingly. The whole nature of Iron Heart is that it's heavy, over engineered, solid clothing / footwear / accessories etc, so the super heavy 'horsehide' fits that aesthetic. I bought one, which was subsequently examined by Aero and replaced with actual FQHH. Will was right, it was an incredible jacket, but not what I wanted.

That does appear to be the bit he struggled with in his testimony. I'm sure they were indeed 'fantastic jackets', but if the customer ain't getting what they asked for.... I love beef, but if I've paid more for venison...

 

[scotrace]

Carry on, Gentlemen.

 

[jlanderson]

Carry on, Gentlemen.

Thank you.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Guess I'm glad this thread was rescued..but I also hope that 'the proven facts' of Sloan's trial narrative can be discussed with a more civil tone concerning everyone involved directly and indirectly.
HD

 

[pawineguy]

I think it's good that we have one outlet so that this doesn't leak into other threads. We'll watch out manners.

 

[Jägernaut]

I've not seen anything out of line aside from a few off topic comments here.

 

[scotrace]

Please do. Rules of decorum and respect apply. Bartenders will remove content that they deem over the line.

We appreciate everyone's input.

 

[Don Tomaso]

Sloan's "trial narrative" would make for a good novel, only the characters on the Calder side of the play need a bit more colour. Reminds me a bit of Noble House, wirthout the scenery. At least Scots are involved.
Seriously, these stories always are entertaining but a bit sad. As Paddy pointed out, we're talking real people's fates and fortunes. On the other hand, the whole thing is so believable. People act like this, and the closer they are, the more bitterness can be involved. I'm not defending anybody, I just can understand the motives.