Aero Leather Clothing trial update

[wdw]

I think AL was so long in gestation, and was probably a plan B set up for if Ken said no to SA's offer, that it's very hard to say for sure 'this is where AL was established'.

Maybe the name was taken before as a plan B, but when was it first staffed with machinists, and were these first staff the ex-Aero deserters?

And did the website with designs go live only after the patterns were copied?

 

[Bunyip]

Maybe the name was taken before as a plan B, but when was it first staffed with machinists, and were these first staff the ex-Aero deserters?

And did the website with designs go live only after the patterns were copied?

Regardless, would AL exist without WL,AS and ST? Hard to pin point it's genesis, but would they have opened without the stolen designs and the experienced Aero team?

 

[devilish]

While I know that when things are presented in court there always tends to be exaggeration, done for effect but the more one reads, the more one feels 'My God, this guy Lauder was a complete scumbag'. I also know that there are always two sides on any story and maybe there had been something that had happened between WL and KC at somepoint that WL was not able to get over. This then lay dormant and festered until he found the opportunity to exact revenge. After all things like that happen even within the closest of families.

 

[Sloan1874]

Maybe the name was taken before as a plan B, but when was it first staffed with machinists, and were these first staff the ex-Aero deserters?

And did the website with designs go live only after the patterns were copied

It was staffed, officially, in the weeks after Will left with, as you put it, deserters. But as I wrote yesterday, he was already talking about recruiting staff for a n other company at the start of 2012.
The AL website went live, if I remember, late October/November, and given events that I haven't reached yet, it must have. [huh]

 

[eggleman]

Thinking back , I bought a jacket from Aero at the time the Calders must have been up to their necks in dealing with this mess.
Yet Lydia still took the time to send me a number of delightful emails when I complemented them on the jacket.
How the Calder family managed to keep up such a calm and pleasant manner while all this was going-on is beyond me !

 

[tropicalbob]

While I know that when things are presented in court there always tends to be exaggeration, done for effect but the more one reads, the more one feels 'My God, this guy Lauder was a complete scumbag'. I also know that there are always two sides on any story and maybe there had been something that had happened between WL and KC at somepoint that WL was not able to get over. This then lay dormant and festered until he found the opportunity to exact revenge. After all things like that happen even within the closest of families.

Yes, but revenge for what? Making him MD? He started the criminal activity the moment the Calders retired and kept it up for eight years. Odd sort of revenge, especially against people who thought the best of you even when confronted with evidence to the contrary. That's what makes this so bad.

 

[Monitor]

Thinking back , I bought a jacket from Aero at the time the Calders must have been up to their necks in dealing with this mess.
Yet Lydia still took the time to send me a number of delightful emails when I complemented them on the jacket.
How the Calder family managed to keep up such a calm and pleasant manner while all this was going-on is beyond me !

It was probably this that managed to pull the company through.

 

[AdeeC]

It was staffed, officially, in the weeks after Will left with, as you put it, deserters. But as I wrote yesterday, he was already talking about recruiting staff for a n other company at the start of 2012.
The AL website went live, if I remember, late October/November, and given events that I haven't reached yet, it must have. [huh]

Although perhaps stating the obvious. How long does it take to set up a factory? Many months for sure. Perhaps at least six. A factory has to be found. Machinery bought. Suppliers engaged and stocked with materials and many other time consuming details. It appears that when all this blew up, AL was already a fait accompli, only requiring the transfer of staff.

 

[Sloan1874]

Well, WL was telling people that he owned the Aero name. [huh]

 

[Superfluous]

Well, WL was telling people that he owned the Aero name. [huh]

Several recently constituted leather jacket manufacturers apparently claim an entitlement to use the Aero name, or derivations of the Aero name. [huh]

I'm waiting for some upstart company to name their new leather jacket the "AeroStellar"

 

[HoosierDaddy]

While I know that when things are presented in court there always tends to be exaggeration, done for effect but the more one reads, the more one feels 'My God, this guy Lauder was a complete scumbag'. I also know that there are always two sides on any story and maybe there had been something that had happened between WL and KC at somepoint that WL was not able to get over. This then lay dormant and festered until he found the opportunity to exact revenge. After all things like that happen even within the closest of families.

I think what happened between WL and KC was: WL simply got caught. Afterall,KC had enough trust and faith in WL and their relationship to appoint him MD at Ken's retirement. I also think that at least some of the crew was aware of the new boss's (WL) shenanigans with even ordering an employee to make a number of jackets for 'other reasons'. Plus maybe some were also aware of the early morning hours of an 'ex-employee' sewing up jackets (for 6 months!). After Ken stepped in finding not only mismanagement but also maybe several Aero Co. traitors in his midst..I would imagine, sadly, an investigation of not only Co. records..but most everyone in the factory was up for a look by the Calders. However..I can also see how WL probably promised that jobs would not be compromised because other AL plans had already been made for some time to rescue any worried workers. Guaranties of security no matter what KC might eventually do. I still think that the crew knew...or had some idea of the inconsistencies that had developed over the past few years before the fall...and more often than not..one can only be so bold in criticize their boss.

 

[navetsea]

about these pattern copyrighting. is it really possible or viable?

isn't it hard to paint a line between: plagiarism VS influenced by
since you said they have different pocket placements, that alone would already weaken the case

like 5 pockets jeans... how manufacturers would put a copyright on their pattern? while it is visibly different in silhouette when being worn, but on paper it is still just a 5 pockets jeans.

 

[jlanderson]

Maybe the name was taken before as a plan B, but when was it first staffed with machinists, and were these first staff the ex-Aero deserters?

And did the website with designs go live only after the patterns were copied?

You're correct. It was announced by Aero that Lauder, then Amanda, had left, then word appeared on the FL, in cryptic messages by some members, that Lauder's new adventure was to open soon. The AL website went live a couple of months after that.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

about these pattern copyrighting. is it really possible or viable?

isn't it hard to paint a line between: plagiarism VS influenced by
since you said they have different pocket placements, that alone would already weaken the case

like 5 pockets jeans... how manufacturers would put a copyright on their pattern? while it is visibly different in silhouette when being worn, but on paper it is still just a 5 pockets jeans.

Perhaps you should actually compare an AL 'Bootlegger style' jacket with the more 'angled' chest pocket to Aero's Bootlegger..then AL's Roadster to Aero's Highwayman..then practically right on down the basic line...and then see what you think.
HD

 

[navetsea]

yes HD, I believe this case, I didn't doubt or has any reason to,
my point was more at since both jacket manufacturers are open for some optional changes on the pocket configuration, body & sleeve length, biswing back or not, kidney panel or not, etc. Then how to copyright a pattern of quite a flexible design?
is it a possible or viable thing to do, do they copyright individually every possible variation of the same design as well?

 

[pawineguy]

Reverse engineering is indeed a common practice. That said, it is not permissible if it infringes upon the originator's property/IP rights. Stealing a company's existing patterns is something entirely different and, IMHO, considerably more egregious. Tasking a company employee with the six months of work necessary to replicate the patterns -- all paid for by the victim of the subsequent theft -- is, IMHO, even more egregious.

If I was running AL right now, I would have already instructed my counsel to reach out with an offer to KC. No admission of infringements, just financial compensation and let's put this behind us... it's going to be very hard to separate themselves from WL and I'd be hoping that KC was reserving most of his rage for WL.

 

[pawineguy]

about these pattern copyrighting. is it really possible or viable?

isn't it hard to paint a line between: plagiarism VS influenced by
since you said they have different pocket placements, that alone would already weaken the case

like 5 pockets jeans... how manufacturers would put a copyright on their pattern? while it is visibly different in silhouette when being worn, but on paper it is still just a 5 pockets jeans.

I think you are getting too caught up in the "artistic" side of the patterns, and while there is certainly some discussion to be had on stealing designs, it's less about where a certain pocket goes and more about how the jacket comes together dimensionally to give a certain "fit" and "feel."

Just think about all the work it's taken on the jackets you've designed to get the fit right, the sleeves rotated just right, etc... then do that for each different size jacket for each different design. They didn't have to do that... it was all done and sitting in front of them. If they wanted to modify then to their own design, they had most of the work already complete and just had to tweak the design.

 

[Fanch]

I think you are getting too caught up in the "artistic" side of the patterns, and while there is certainly some discussion to be had on stealing designs, it's less about where a certain pocket goes and more about how the jacket comes together dimensionally to give a certain "fit" and "feel."

Just think about all the work it's taken on the jackets you've designed to get the fit right, the sleeves rotated just right, etc... then do that for each different size jacket for each different design. They didn't have to do that... it was all done and sitting in front of them. If they wanted to modify then to their own design, they had most of the work already complete and just had to tweak the design.

PAWG no doubt you hit the nail on the head with what you just said. About two years ago, almost immediately after AL announced their various models, I posted pictures of each of Aero's and AL's corresponding models (Highwayman/Roadster, Cafe Racer/Cafe Racer, HBD/Drifter, LHB/Long Rider, Bootlegger/Detroit, 1950's HB/Memphis, Hercules/Spiegel, etc.) on TFL. I wish that I had saved the pictures and my post so I could show again the almost exact duplication involved, and was obvious to me way back then exactly what had taken place. At last, confirmation from trial testimony what happened back then but suspect we are still likely seeing only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Big J]

WL;'They've done thier homework'.

Er, not exactly. You left them a trail of breadcrumbs that incriminated you totally.

This WL guy makes me laugh, he really is stupid and inept. He deserved to get caught. It was just a matter of time.
What I can't understand is why people like Amanda felt any sympathy for him? Defrauding her employer puts her financial security at risk. He offered her a job at the new company? Yeah, great, would you want to work for someone like that, knowing what they were all about?

Some people really are just dumb.

 

[Big J]

This thread's like crack cocaine. I can't stop (>_<)