Aero Jackets in really cold weather

[gfirob]

I’m going to be way up in far northern Sweden in late February, and I wonder if anybody has experience wearing FQHH in the cold.

My jackets are big enough to wear a sweater or down vest underneath. I have been in Antarctica in the summer when we wore layers of silk underwear, woold shirt, fleece jacket, and a wind-parka or heavy parka on top, depending on the weather and was wondering if you could get away with that kind of layering under a heavy leather jacket and make it work.

I don’t want to travel with a heavy parka. I have one, but they are so bulky and you can only wear them in the super cold and I will only be up in this part of Sweden for a few days.

I have found both my Aeros to be pretty warm here (in the mid-atlantic coast in the US) with a heavy shirt and polar fleece vest, but leather all by itself is not warm (though it does totally cut the wind). With a good hat, gator and good gloves and boots, would an Areo keep me comfortable?

Any northern European Aero experiences out there? Or Canadian? Or Minnesotan? Or Russian?

Thanks

 

[High Iron]

I'm from Wisconsin and it gets down to the -30 range in the winter here. What kind of temps are you expecting and what jacket are you thinking about wearing?

Around here when it gets really cold I go with my Mountain Hardware Sub Zero jacket. After a week in below zero temps I give up trying to look good and just go with what keeps me warm. The MH Sub Zero is extremely packable and fits into a stuff sack the size of a football.

 

[JLStorm]

I dont have FQHH, but I do have an Aero heavy steer and then a custom b3. I wouldnt wear the steerhide below 20F, but the b3 is comfortable at -20+F. Honestly, from my experience, once you are dealing with -10F or colder (I have experienced -50 with the windchill, -30+/- without) you REALLY need something designed specifically for cold. If your version of cold is above 0F, then thats a whole different ballgame, I suppose its all relative to what you consider cold.

 

[tonypaj]

From my experience, FQHH is pretty much pointless when it's below the freezing point, it juts gets stiff and it isn't that warm to begin with. Modern materials beat the neat looking stuff hands down.

Do what the locals do is usually the best rule, and I'd bet that most just stay indoors, going out only if necessary, wearing goretex stuff and lots of layers.

 

[Dudleydoright]

I concur with Paj

Paj is right on this. Due to the oils in the Aero FQHH, it gets VERY stiff in colder weather. Also, unless it is extremely loose fitting (to the point it would be too baggy to wear ), putting that many layers on will further reduce your mobility.

Take a down jacket with you - at those temps you are expecting a waterproof is not needed as the air is cold and dry. They pack down small, weigh little and you could always post it home when you're heading to warmer climes.

The leather has no insulating properties either due to the oils and, in fact, seems to conduct the cold inwards with great efficiency !

Dave

 

[Edward]

In dry, full-on cold I'd always opt for a B3 / Irvin or similar myself. Naturally I'm sure you don't want to buy one of those purely for that purpose, though! I would suggest taking the parka, probably. Better to have to lug a coat you don't need in the end than to be stuck in bitter cold for a few days with inadequate outerwear.

 

[Cooperson]

Heavy horse hide and freezing temperatures - NO!!!

Seriously, I had a long talk with Will at Aero when ordering my Highwayman and the only thing he stressed when talking of leather care was "do not leave you jacket in your car overnight if the temperature was due to drop below freezing". Apparently, the leather can actually fracture! Scary stuff for an expensive jacket and I for one will not be putting it to the test!

Cheers

 

[gfirob]

Thanks

Good thinking all around, thanks. I'm trying to get information on the average temperatures there, but it will be mostly night that time of year and sounds like it would be in the teens most of the time.

I never thought of the leather getting stiff or even cracking!

Sounds like a down parka or shearling is the way to go...

I hate to leave the Aero (Bootlegger) at home, but better that than cracking it.
Rob

 

[Edward]

Heavy horse hide and freezing temperatures - NO!!!

Seriously, I had a long talk with Will at Aero when ordering my Highwayman and the only thing he stressed when talking of leather care was "do not leave you jacket in your car overnight if the temperature was due to drop below freezing". Apparently, the leather can actually fracture! Scary stuff for an expensive jacket and I for one will not be putting it to the test!

Cheers

Hmmmnn.... is this also the implication for a B3's horsehide arm panels, then?

 

[bobjones]

Hmmmnn.... is this also the implication for a B3's horsehide arm panels, then?

Interesting. I heard Will say that before, but I understood the reason not to leave it in a car overnight was the potential wetness getting into the jacket and then freezing, which could damage the leather.

For one, I wear my FQHHs below 32F here all winter long, but do layer underneath. At 10F or below, out come the heavy wool overcoats...

 

[High Iron]

I don't believe it for one minute. Horse or cowhide or goat or otherwise. How many cars have leather interiors in the regions that fall under these climates? My Jeep Grand Cherokee has seen -40 to -60 farenheit with no problem. B-3's had horsehide trim and were used in the same climate.

 

[gfirob]

Test

Hmmm
Anybody willing to put their Aero in the freezer overnight and see what happens?

Maybe shake it real hard when you take it out?

It's also true that your body would be heating the inside of the jacket all the while. Interesting question.

I think it is true, though no matter what that the leather itself isn't going to do anything other than cut the wind.

 

[BigHairyFinn]

Ummm... layered clothing but really no use for overkill. Carhartt lined jeans and a M-65 is too hot already

 

[Cooperson]

Interesting. I heard Will say that before, but I understood the reason not to leave it in a car overnight was the potential wetness getting into the jacket and then freezing, which could damage the leather.

For one, I wear my FQHHs below 32F here all winter long, but do layer underneath. At 10F or below, out come the heavy wool overcoats...

I think Will was talking about a wet jacket freezing not a dry one. I'm not prepared to put my Highwayman to the test, but in the interests of an experiment, I have some heavy horse samples that I can put in the freezer overnight. I will try one wet sample and one dry one and will report back tomorrow

 

[Cooperson]

Results of the little experiment are in!

Two heavy front quarter leather samples placed in the freezer overnight, one dry and one completely soaked through. On taking them out they both felt quite stiff as you would expect. Sharp creases were put in both samples but they showed no evidence of cracking at all. The only noticeable difference was that the wet sample showed the crease lines far more, whether they are are now permanent or not I don't know. The hides both softened very quickly when out of the cold, so I would think body heat when wearing a jacket would mean that freezing shouldn't be an issue.

Conclusions: From this little test, heavy horse seems to hold up well in freezing conditions, wet or dry.

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons though, here are couple of snippets taken from articles on leather care.


Care of leather Tack

Excess water affects leather’s fat content by dislodging and removing fats and oils from the fibers. Winter storms soak leather with excess moisture; when you ride in rain or snow, your tack absorbs water. Wet leather can crack when subjected to freezing temperatures, as ice will separate the fibers.

Guidelines for the care of waterlogged archaeological leather

The deep freezing of leather to enable long term wet storage is no longer recommended as freezing has been found to have a detrimental effect its cell structure.

Food for thought!

Cheers

 

[Peacoat]

Good job, Coop; thanks for the thoroughly scientific experiment. I imagine there is something in your heritage that makes you particularly suited to this type of practical resolution of a difficult question!

 

[Norwayman]

I have used my Highwayman ( with alpacca wool lining ) + shirt and a sweater in temperatures down to -15 Celcius.
Stiff? YES! - Cracks? No, absolutly not..

Here up north with often very cold winters, down jackets is the best - FQHH is for spring and autumn...

 

[JohnRawson1944]

TOO COLD ?

any kind of cloth under your leather will do it - shirt, sweater and vest under your leather jacket / coat - depending on daily weather condition - a woolen liner or sheepskin liner will do it on worst days- kind regards and all the best to you... JohnRawson

 

[gfirob]

Thanks again

Thanks again for all the thoughtful responses, not to mention the scientific tests and local commentary from Finland and Norway.

I am returning to the idea of wearing the Aero on this trip, with a silk undershirt, wool shirt and down vest.

I have been reading a great book called "Invisible on Everest" about the historical development of mountaineering and arctic exploration clothing (anyone ever hear of Grenfell cloth?). Anyway, back in the day, these guys didn't have fancy technical fabrics. They had wool and cotton with the occasional use of furs and leather boots. And they went to the South Pole and the top of Everest (I am not saying they were comfortable, though).

Of course, none of the them wore leather jackets, but never mind that...

So I might try this jacket out on Sweden during the dark time. We'll see.

Thanks for all the help.

Rob

 

[Edward]

I have read of an experiment done in recent years, where a team went climbing in extreme conditions. One half wore modern gear, all synthetic, the other half older, mid-20th century style stuff with lots of natural materials. The older stuff performed just as well as the new stuff, according to their results.