Aero Chromexcel Steerhide

[Superfluous]

Horween and Shinki are the only two suppliers of Shell Cordovan.

 

[pawineguy]

PWG: The supposed hearsay comment of a single anonymous person, presented without the slightest bit of explanation or support, does not a controversy make, and has not tarnished Horween's reputation one iota. FWIW, I have never seen anyone criticize Horween's hides based on whether they are full or top grain (a distinction you over-emphasize, but that is a different discussion), as opposed to the lack of grain or the rigidity of certain hides. Horween's well deserved reputation remains solidly in tact and unscathed.

I do agree that Horween doesn't need my defense, I get annoyed when someone asks for help on the board and is fed bad information. I'm surely chasing windmills but it's a character flaw I'm not going to lose any time soon. The funny thing is that now I get drawn into the whole full grain vs top grain thing, and the reality is that I could care less about what type my jacket is made from, just that I love the jacket. I own multiple top grain jackets that I would buy again... my only objective was to set the record straight. Happy Holidays.

 

[IXL]

A bit off the subject: I own a pair of Alden of New England shoes made from shell cordovan in "Color 8" (dark burgundy) that is the bees knees but is not, as I understand, made from top grain HH but is actually "made from from the fibrous flat muscle (or shell) beneath the hide on the rump of the horse" to quote Wikipedia. I also own a matching belt (Shell Cordovan Color 8) from Allen-Edmonds (impossible to find any Alden shell cordovan belts for at least the past year or so). Point is that Horween tans fantastic leather for many companies, even leather that is not top grain. Now, I just need to order a matching Aero Stockman like wdw's to complete the ensemble.

I have a "dress holster" made from shell cordovan, and it is absolutely gorgeous; one of my favorites.

 

[Fanch]

IXL nice thing about shell cordovan is its almost indestructible nature so that your "dress holster" made from shell cordovan would still outlive you even if worn for daily wear with your uniform.

 

[watch.collector]

Aero Chromexcel Steerhide from my Barnstormer

 

[Plumbline]

I've been to the bloody tannery, followed the process from bottom to top (held my breath best I could on the ground floor, top one smelled amazing) and at no point did I see any 'correction' being carried out on the hides - and I was paying very close attention - it's as straight forward as you're going to get with tanning.

Nonsense Sloanie .....

There is a 2000Te ( or some similar ridiculously high pressure number ) press on the top floor for hide correction at Horween used for the embossing of steerhide and horsehide for a variety of applications ( particularly American footballs) .... equally on the 2nd floor there is a device for hide splitting and numerous hide shaving, sanding and polishing devices.

May purists would argue that the had finishing ( including sanding, polishing and glazing ) by definition makes Horween CXL " Top Grain" ....... but it is STILL amazing leather and of a quality second to none. Horween produce a large variety of hides in a wide variety of grades ... veg tanned, chrome tanned, combination tanned some full grain, some top grain some splits ... in a variety of hides, in a variety of qualities. Horweens Shell Cordovan is the material of choice for the finest footwear on the planet which is testament to the quality of their products. They are one of a few artisan leather tanneries in the world producing to age old recipes and using vintage techniques in a world where "handcrafted" production processes have long since been replaced with machinery and production line processes.

But to suggest they never produce "corrected" hides is a nonsense .... their biggest selling products are corrected steerhide and horsehides !

 

[Sloan1874]

Read two posts down from my first one, you'll see I correct myself, PL-y

 

[Plumbline]

I do see that in its Wiki entry that they do actually make 'corrected' leathers, though I suspect that would be fashion stuff.

but it's not fashion stuff, Corrected leather is actually one of their major products ( Footwear and "Football" leather) indeed Horween sells more "Top Grain" leather than it does "Full Grain" ( from what I have been told by Horween) .. and indeed many would atest that the shaving, sanding, buffing, glazing, polishing and hand finishing of many of Horweens top end "Full grain" products indeed makes them "Top Grain" ... these are not low grade products or "inferior" but stunning leathers ... but by the truest definition of leather "Top Grain". Shell Cordovan makes the finest shoes in the world but could by the current definition be defined as "Top Grain".

Horween would atest that CXL and similar tannages are "Full Grain" leather - as woud I (actually) as I associate top grain leathers as those which will not develop a detailed patina and CXL does develop a great patina and has a unique pull-up. It's an emotive point and one which is deeply contentious and one where experts in the field often disagree ( I have spoken to many leather "experts" who fail to agree on the subject).

In any case to say that 1. Horween doesn't make "Top Grain" or "Corrected Grain" leathers is wrong ..... and 2. To then suggest that this is only for the fashion market is also wrong.

Not detracting IN ANY WAY from the amazing products which Horween produces.


Avoid "Corrected Grain" .... verify "Top Grain" .... embrace "Full Grain"

 

[pawineguy]

but it's not fashion stuff, Corrected leather is actually one of their major products ( Footwear and "Football" leather) indeed Horween sells more "Top Grain" leather than it does "Full Grain" ( from what I have been told by Horween) .. and indeed many would atest that the shaving, sanding, buffing, glazing, polishing and hand finishing of many of Horweens top end "Full grain" products indeed makes them "Top Grain" ... these are not low grade products or "inferior" but stunning leathers ... but by the truest definition of leather "Top Grain". Shell Cordovan makes the finest shoes in the world but could by the current definition be defined as "Top Grain".

Horween would atest that CXL and similar tannages are "Full Grain" leather - as woud I (actually) as I associate top grain leathers as those which will not develop a detailed patina and CXL does develop a great patina and has a unique pull-up. It's an emotive point and one which is deeply contentious and one where experts in the field often disagree ( I have spoken to many leather "experts" who fail to agree on the subject).

In any case to say that 1. Horween doesn't make "Top Grain" or "Corrected Grain" leathers is wrong ..... and 2. To then suggest that this is only for the fashion market is also wrong.

Not detracting IN ANY WAY from the amazing products which Horween produces.


Avoid "Corrected Grain" .... verify "Top Grain" .... embrace "Full Grain"

Shaving and sanding of full grain WOULD make it Top grain. Where have you heard or seen that CXL goes through either of these processes? (The shell IS top grain, because that's how it has to be made, and as you point out, no one would dispute its quality.)

 

[Windstorm81]

I know that CXL undergoes polishing and glazing but does it undergo Sanding as well ? If yes, then this would be more suggistive of Top grain, right?

 

[pawineguy]

I know that CXL undergoes polishing and glazing but does it undergo Sanding as well ? If yes, then this would be more suggistive of Top grain, right?

Correct, it is NOT sanded or shaved.

 

[Plumbline]

Just to be clear .... according to the Horween website CXL is not sanded or shaved.

 

[Windstorm81]

Anyone know the difference between Aero Heavy Chrome Tanned Steerhide and Chromexcel Steerhide ? On their website, they say Heavy Chrome Tanned Steerhide. Are they the same or different hides used by Aero?

If it's CXL, why do they write "Heavy Chrome Tanned Steerhide" whereas in their Horsehide section, they actually refer it as" Chromexcel Front Quarter Horsehide"

 

[Sloan1874]

CXL is a specific propriety formula used and owned by Horween, whereas simple chroming of leathers is a widely used practice in tanning.

 

[pawineguy]

CXL is a specific propriety formula used and owned by Horween, whereas simple chroming of leathers is a widely used practice in tanning.

+1, it's a different leather.

 

[Windstorm81]

So you guys are saying that Aero uses TWO different Steerhides for jackets : a Chrome Tanned Steerhide and the other Chromexcel?

I am just now confused whether they use the Horween Chromexxel Steerhide or if they are using the regular Chrome Tanned Steerhide?

 

[pawineguy]

Perhaps it would help if you provided a link to what you are referencing, as when I look on their website under leathers it talks about CXL steerhide. They will use whatever leather you tell them to use within their options. Yes, they have more than one type of HH, more than one type of steer, but their signature product, which is used in the vast majority of their jackets, is CXL.

 

[Fanch]

Once upon a time I owned an Aero HWM that I think was chrome tanned mid-weight steerhide - not heavy at all and very flexible, and I suspect unlike Horween's CXL steerhide that I understand is thick, heavy, and requires a considerable break in period. I don't know which tannery processed the mid-weight steerhide though.

 

[Windstorm81]

Wow, this is unbelievable. Last night when I was browsing Aero website, in their Steerhide section, they rereferred to their Steerhide as "4oz Chrome Tanned Steerhide". But now as if by magic, it's all been changed to "Chromexcel Steerhide. I think this website change might have been triggered by this post. Perhaps, Aero is watching

 

[Fanch]

Don't know whether the mid-weight steerhide was full grain or top grain either.