Aero B3/B6/Customization Options

[ziggytsardust]

Hello! As a long time lurker, I've been perusing through the forums looking for as much information as possible on Aero B3/b6 jackets (my first quality purchase). I found the thread for the comfortable temperature range for a B3, what would that be for a B6? I am 5'10" 123lbs, with a 33" chest (I am a marathon runner) would Aero be able to make a trim fitting B3 jacket? Also I am prone to being cold (even though I live in San Diego), would I be able to wear a b3 here?

Thanks in advance!

 

[ButteMT61]

Well, I'm nowhere as slight as you, and I wear a B3 in Pasadena! If you are prone to being cold, a B3/B6 will work nicely. A B6 would be more versatile here. If you didn't get it built skin-tight, you could layer under it. That's my next jacket. An Aero B6 as far as warmer jackets go.
Good luck!

 

[HighandDry]

Wow, I wouldn't think that you could wear a B3/B6 in southern Cal. I wear my B6 a handful of times in Seattle, but mostly I wear it if I travel to somewhere really cold.

The B6 is super warm, the B3 even warmer. The modern equivalent would be a heavy down parka. Do you ever wear a jacket like that in San Diego?

 

[ziggytsardust]

I tried a coat once which was overpriced (ralph lauren long shearling coat), but it cost too much, it seemed perfect because I am honestly freezing most of the time, my warmest coat is a peacoat and i still have to wear a sweater, I was wondering what was the best temperature to wear a b6? (I am infatuated with the design of the b3 though)

 

[alfyman]

Hi, I too have run many marathons and I have had my share of Bomber jackets, I had purchased a B3 years ago but the cheap one but it didn't quite fit as snug as I wanted, I returned that one, and Years later I bought an Eastman B3 and that was a perfect fit, but I took a year off of running and kind of grew out of it, I sold that one but I miss it still, But I found Cirrus uk, and decided to buy one from them, I was able to make payments before they sent it to me, I liked this one because it didn't have the furry cuffs, and I got it at a perfect fit, I wear it everywhere I go.

 

[ziggytsardust]

I absolutely love the furry cuffs though! How snug was the fit? Does a Cirrus made jacket cost the same as an Aero (Modificationwise)? Thanks again in advance!

 

[alfyman]

Hi, I'm sure you can get the furry Cuffs, I don't know about Aero, but I got the perfect measurement size from Eastman leather, If you measure it they will do it. I think I measured my self but I took off an inch because I wanted it snug, but I would not recommend doing that. just measuring and giving them the real meaurements is the best way, incase you grow a little, But Cirrus UK flying jackets I was able to make payments and the sheepskin is long and furry,Here is a photo.

 

[ziggytsardust]

That jacket looks nice! I was looking for a fit like this: http://www.ralphlauren.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4246202, Do you think I could do that with a b3 but have the company use only 1/2" of shearling instead of a full inch?

 

[alfyman]

Well, from what I've seen in other photo's I think it is possible if you work with the jacket maker from some Military jacket making company such as Cirrus, Aero, or Eastman leather , But I don't know about Ralph Lauren I think they are already set in that specific look and style.

 

[JanSolo]

Have a look at Olli's Aero B6:

He's quite slim but athletic and he also wanted his jacket to be more fitted than the standard B6. I think Aero have done a great job. I really like this jacket!

Here's the full thread:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...w-AERO-B-6-Shearling-Flight-Jacket&highlight=

 

[Corky]

Since you are located in San Diego, why not drive over to Gibson & Barnes and check out their jackets?

Being able to try on a jacket, to feel the leather, to experience how a particular garment fits and moves, and to simply be in the presence of the person who will be doing the alterations seems like a much better idea than trying to communicate the same information to another person on the other side of the world.

http://www.gibson-barnes.com/Shearling+B-3+Jacket/id/18/cat_id/18/prod_id/51/

 

[ziggytsardust]

Since you are located in San Diego, why not drive over to Gibson & Barnes and check out their jackets?

Being able to try on a jacket, to feel the leather, to experience how a particular garment fits and moves, and to simply be in the presence of the person who will be doing the alterations seems like a much better idea than trying to communicate the same information to another person on the other side of the world.

http://www.gibson-barnes.com/Shearling+B-3+Jacket/id/18/cat_id/18/prod_id/51/

Thanks for the link! I did not know there was a store nearby that carried similar jackets! Did you guys have any opinions on an RAF jacket vs. a b3? (I've been discovering more and more options, it's quite overwhelming to say the least!)

 

[xt40]

RAF jacket vs. a b3?

Hi,
theres no real answer to this as both have pluses and minuses which really balance each other out.

raf
shorter body with longer arms which have zips and underarm gussets.
(this gives excellent reach and flexibility when sitting on a bike or in a car etc.)
half belt for getting it nice and tight
bigger windflap
more tailored look
no pockets (which suits the design)#
non-white fur doesnt show dirt

b3
more utilitarian boxy shape
no sleeve zips
horse facings on the sleeves = very robust
no gussets so sleeves pull when reaching
side belts - not as good as half belt
longer body (1-2 inches usually)
bigger collar
has a single pocket (which suits the design)
2-tone option - very distinctive
white fur gets dirty
if you were a b-17 pilot id say raf but if you were a waist gunner then the b3 would be better.

 

[ziggytsardust]

Hi,
theres no real answer to this as both have pluses and minuses which really balance each other out.

raf
shorter body with longer arms which have zips and underarm gussets.
(this gives excellent reach and flexibility when sitting on a bike or in a car etc.)
half belt for getting it nice and tight
bigger windflap
more tailored look
no pockets (which suits the design)#
non-white fur doesnt show dirt

b3
more utilitarian boxy shape
no sleeve zips
horse facings on the sleeves = very robust
no gussets so sleeves pull when reaching
side belts - not as good as half belt
longer body (1-2 inches usually)
bigger collar
has a single pocket (which suits the design)
2-tone option - very distinctive
white fur gets dirty
if you were a b-17 pilot id say raf but if you were a waist gunner then the b3 would be better.

Is the RAF as warm as the B3? (I'm starting to lean towards the RAF now, because it seems more fitted, If only I could have Aero make the b3 more fitted....) also what did you mean by bigger windflaps?

 

[Edward]

Is the RAF as warm as the B3? (I'm starting to lean towards the RAF now, because it seems more fitted, If only I could have Aero make the b3 more fitted....) also what did you mean by bigger windflaps?

I have both an ELC 42 Pattern RAF sheepskin, and a Lost Worlds B3. The B3 has the advantage of that single pocket being a great place to stow gloves (typically, when it is cold enough for one of these, I will be pretty much guaranteed to be wearing gloves). My Irvin is much softer on the exterior, and a much lighter jacket to wear - not sure, though, how much this has to do with the differences in design, organic differences in individual sheep and their fleeces, or LW's preference for "manly", heavy jackets.... Neither feels especially more or less cumbersome to wear, IMO. I might be wary of the Irvin if you like a modern, low rise waist to your trousers. The horsehide arm-protection panels on the sleeves of the B3 do give a certain sense of security if you are worried about damaging the elbows. Both feel equally warm to me. Hope this helps a little!

 

[xt40]

Is the RAF as warm as the B3? (I'm starting to lean towards the RAF now, because it seems more fitted, If only I could have Aero make the b3 more fitted....) also what did you mean by bigger windflaps?

id say just as warm but be careful of the body length as the extra couple of inches below the belt line makes a big difference.
the windflap (under the front zip) on the b3 just covers the zip area but on the irvin it is a good bit wider. it looks better when unzipped and feels like you are wearing a scarf when it is zipped making the jacket extra toasty.
there are lots of different ones out there but the eastman is probably the best (just watch the length)
of the others
aero - good but used to have wrong shaped arms (might be fixed now)
aviation leathercraft - too teddy bearish
what price glory - cheap and design looks spot on except for the collar which is a bit wide.
most others are either wrong or ridiculously expensive

 

[Edward]

I gather Aero are considered to now have found the correct arm shape (they were rather too narrow and tubular in the past), though ELC are still considered by the experts (to whose knowledge I defer) to have better sheepskin. In photos, the Aero jackets look a lot shinier, somehow, though that may be different in person. Above a certain size, Aero are your better option, as ELC's size range stops at a certain point. Can't recall what that is - Spitfire could help you here, as I know that was one of the reasons he went for Aero. Many on TFL have the WPG jacket and speak highly of it. The general consensus seems to be that while ELC produce a superior jacket, the WPG is a good option for the money. AFAIK, the seam tapes on the WPG are synthetic rather than leather, if that matters to you. The fleece is, if memory serves, also a little thinner than that on the ELC, but then it is something like half the price. If you're not so worried about accuracy, the likes of Aviation Leathercraft's Irvin can be picked up used for a fair bit less than the Eastman jackets - at least based on my experience of watching eBay auctions. The ALC jackets are great quality garments, just not particularly accurate reproductions of the original Irvin.

 

[ziggytsardust]

I gather Aero are considered to now have found the correct arm shape (they were rather too narrow and tubular in the past), though ELC are still considered by the experts (to whose knowledge I defer) to have better sheepskin. In photos, the Aero jackets look a lot shinier, somehow, though that may be different in person. Above a certain size, Aero are your better option, as ELC's size range stops at a certain point. Can't recall what that is - Spitfire could help you here, as I know that was one of the reasons he went for Aero. Many on TFL have the WPG jacket and speak highly of it. The general consensus seems to be that while ELC produce a superior jacket, the WPG is a good option for the money. AFAIK, the seam tapes on the WPG are synthetic rather than leather, if that matters to you. The fleece is, if memory serves, also a little thinner than that on the ELC, but then it is something like half the price. If you're not so worried about accuracy, the likes of Aviation Leathercraft's Irvin can be picked up used for a fair bit less than the Eastman jackets - at least based on my experience of watching eBay auctions. The ALC jackets are great quality garments, just not particularly accurate reproductions of the original Irvin.

when you say that aero has found the correct arm shape, does that mean it's still fitted? also I am probably going to go for a size 34 or below if possible, is aero still good value for the money?

Is this the way an raf jacket usually fits? :
http://www.noble-house.eu/catalog/images/tornado2.jpg?osCsid=4us2uq71st7fh9jmedo5c67d94

I like the way it's fitted in the body and the arms.

Also, is this how a b-3 is supposed to fit/can aero produce a fit such as this (or trimmer)?:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_uZoeVft5Da8/SNyvMEgkoNI/AAAAAAAAA9A/wV4WEoH7J-I/s400/b-3rhhmont.jpg

my concern with the b3 is ballooning in the back/arms.

Thanks again in advance! I don't mean to keep pestering on with all these questions, I just desperately want to purchase my first quality jacket the correct way the first time!

 

[xt40]

when you say that aero has found the correct arm shape, does that mean it's still fitted? also I am probably going to go for a size 34 or below if possible, is aero still good value for the money?

Is this the way an raf jacket usually fits? :
http://www.noble-house.eu/catalog/images/tornado2.jpg?osCsid=4us2uq71st7fh9jmedo5c67d94

I like the way it's fitted in the body and the arms.

Also, is this how a b-3 is supposed to fit/can aero produce a fit such as this (or trimmer)?:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_uZoeVft5Da8/SNyvMEgkoNI/AAAAAAAAA9A/wV4WEoH7J-I/s400/b-3rhhmont.jpg

my concern with the b3 is ballooning in the back/arms.

Thanks again in advance! I don't mean to keep pestering on with all these questions, I just desperately want to purchase my first quality jacket the correct way the first time!

id say the ones in the noble house photo are too tight overall. a slightly looser fit looks better in the raf. those noble house raf jackets in your photo would not be bad but are ruined by the stupid zipped pockets and the eyelets in the throat belt. their b3's by the way are totally wrong.
see this for an example of irvin perfect fit.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?35432-WANTED-ORIGINAL-Irvin-jacket-in-size-3-or-4

the eastman b3 pic is beautiful but the fit looks a little too small for the model

the no1 ref for b3 fit is william holden in stalag 17
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6O-bt4NLPo&feature=related
go to 09:40


here are mine
eastman 42 size 44
aero b3 size 42 (after i shrunk it in the dryer as it was too big)


http://www.flickr.com/photos/55141342@N04/5114306798/in/photostream/

 

[Edward]

when you say that aero has found the correct arm shape, does that mean it's still fitted? also I am probably going to go for a size 34 or below if possible, is aero still good value for the money?

Older Aero Irvins of which I have seen many photos had tubular, neater fitting sleeves; the original Irvins were wider to the top of the arm, tapering to the wrist.

A lot of folks have Aero Irvins and are very happy with them. I don't claim to be among the experts, but those to whose superior knowledge I defer would say that the Eastman renditions are that bit more accurate.

Is this the way an raf jacket usually fits? :
http://www.noble-house.eu/catalog/images/tornado2.jpg?osCsid=4us2uq71st7fh9jmedo5c67d94

I like the way it's fitted in the body and the arms.

Also, is this how a b-3 is supposed to fit/can aero produce a fit such as this (or trimmer)?:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_uZoeVft5Da8/SNyvMEgkoNI/AAAAAAAAA9A/wV4WEoH7J-I/s400/b-3rhhmont.jpg

my concern with the b3 is ballooning in the back/arms.

The thing with 'proper' fit in a garment that was produced to be issued to military is that, well, on the ground the fit was all over the place. You got what the quartermaster threw at you - or what you could swap / trade / salvage with / from others. If you dig around the web and threads on here, you'll find plenty of pictures of them being worn back in the day, all in wildly varying fits. Irvins would have been worn 'bigger' than we often would today relative to the man in them, as they were designed to be worn over the top of full RAF service dress. You'll also find a sheepskin jacket will inevitably be a bit bulkier looking than something in leather with a thin cotton lining.

FWIW, I am a 42R in a suit, and I would go for a 44R in a sheepskin flying jacket to allow room underneath for a sweater. I don't always wear one with it, but I like to have the option as for me these are cold weather jackets. This is an ELC 42 Pattern Irvin worn with a regular cotton shirt and a thick wool cardigan underneath it:

For comparison, this is me in my 44R Lost Worlds B3:

Neither jacket is what I'd call especially trim, but they certainly aren't clumsy to wear. If you really want something neater fitting, you might look into a B6, though bear in mind that they aren't as heavy sheepskin, and again with one in a neat fit you'll be unlikely to be able to fit a sweater underneath without going up a size.

Thanks again in advance! I don't mean to keep pestering on with all these questions, I just desperately want to purchase my first quality jacket the correct way the first time!

Makes absolute sense to me!