Adventurebilt hats - anyone ordered from?

[bendingoak]

I'd give some thought to supporting it in your shoes.

I don't care if I every sale another hat in my life. I'll die before I turn on my friend.

 

[Tomasso]

I'll die before I turn on my friend.

That's certainly commendable.......Funny thing though, at this point your strident advocacy does little for your friend but instead keeps this thread on the front page. And sadly, the facts are not in your friend's favor, no matter how you spin them. Harold Burson, were he advising you, would issue a gag order to your side.

 

[Guttersnipe]

That's certainly commendable.......Funny thing though, at this point your strident advocacy does little for your friend but instead keeps this thread on the front page. And sadly, the facts are not in your friend's favor, no matter how you spin them. Harold Burson, were he advising you, would issue a gag order to your side.

yep

 

[fmw]

I don't care if I every sale another hat in my life. I'll die before I turn on my friend.

I have some advice for you. Nobody has asked you to turn on a friend. My advice is that silence is golden when one of your competitors is being discussed on the internet. You can't help your friend and you can hurt yourself. Your friendship doesn't or shouldn't require you to defend his poor business practice. He made a mistake. We all do. You can still be friends. In these situations, silence is golden.

 

[fmw]

First,You don't have all the facts. you think you do but you don't.

Again, read my post for some of the information.

The movie news hit. He got slammed in a month ( most of how that list got made). He already had a few months lead time to begin with. No one could for-seen that he would get that he would received that many orders in a very short period of time. He raised his prices to slow or stop the orders. Closing his doors down didn't work (it made for even more than the hundreds of e-mails this man gets in a day). He placed his prices to $650.00 and it stopped the orders and cut down all the e-mails from coming in. He still gets a lot of e-mail but much less this way. He has made 5-6 hats at the new price that he works about a hour or so on Sunday. Really going to get bent over 5 or 6 hats. For a guy who works 16 hour days, 6 days a week. Are you really picking on him for that.

Its very easy looking back on thing and saying how to handle it but you were not in the man shoes during the whole thing. He is.

I'm not a fare weather friend. Steve is a good man and doing the best he can. He has refunded people who have asked for it.

I will say this. Steve will deliver a hat to every customer who has a order with him. That I am sure of.

I think some advice is also warranted here in case this happens to you. What your friend should have done is communicate with the customers. He should have explained that he was flooded with orders and it would take him more than 3 years to complete them. He should have offered a refund to those who didn't want to wait. That would leave the decision to the customer rather than to him. In other words, he should have done for his customers what he would want a vendor to do for him. Earlier a poster said he waited 10 years for a custom made flute. The difference is that he knew that going in. He made the decision to take on what most would consider an unreasonable wait. There is no substitute for communication and fair play.

 

[djd]

I respect Johns defence of Steve. Personally I do think that's what a true friend should do. It may not be the wise or pragmatic choice but it's the decent thing to do.

It seems to me that Steve has got himself into a difficult situation partly due to unforeseen circumstances and partly through an element of inexperience. Many of us in the same position probably would have made the same mistakes. I think it's possible to be sympathetic to Steves situation and at the same time be understanding of those on the list. I wouldn't want to be in either sides shoes quite frankly. Knowing where Steve started this journey I suppose I'd be much more inclined to give him far greater leeway than I would some other business.

 

[fmw]

I disagree. What Bendingoak is doing is defending bad business on the part of his friend. He is trying to make his friend into a victim rather than into someone who made a poor business decision. To explain the situation in order to ameliorate any backlash his friend might experience is noble. I don't recommend it but I have no problem with it. But to defend his friend's mistake and to attempt to make him a victim is simply pointless.

I don't know either man. Steve should have and still should offer refunds to those who have been forced to take on an unreasonable waiting period. If Bendingoak wants to help his friend then he should do it without attempting to make his friend a victim. If I were Bendingoak and I felt I had to defend him publicly I would have said that, yes, he handled the situation poorly but he is an honorable man and will work his way out of the situation. That would have defended his friend in a more accurate light. However, when it comes to competitors - friends or otherwise - silence is GOLDEN.

 

[djd]

I certainly agree with your earlier post regarding communication. Good communication will get you out of many a hole whereas bad communication is the number one gripe in almost every business and management survey

 

[bendingoak]

x

 

[bendingoak]

If you read my post. He did and does offer a refund for anyone who wants it. people don't. I never said he handled it great or even good but i have doubts that anyone would handled it better. hind site is 20/20.

You don't have all the facts and your passing judgement on him. You don't even have a stake in this.

If people want to pass judgement on me because I came in here and tried to give people a understanding of what's going on, so be it. I was trying to help. I don't see what you doing is helping at all.

I didn't paint Steve as a victim. You are projecting, maybe??? I was explaining what went on so people would have a better understanding.

Its easy to give advise when you are on the other side of the table.

I'm glade I don't have friends who would rather stand aside and do nothing when people attack me. Some friends. lets just sweep the dirt under the carpet. Is that the answer to all things around here????? I say drag it into the light and give people understanding.

 

[jlee562]

Fmw, with respect, your posts in this thread presenting hypothetical situations and calling the situation "unacceptable" are of no help either. What should have been done is inconsequential at this point. Ok, you find it "unacceptable" to wait this long for a hat. Don't order one.

But that does nothing for those of us waiting for a hat.

I'm not going to stand here and nominate Steve for businessman of the year, but suggesting what should have been done doesn't present a solution for what CAN be done or what SHOULD be done. John and I are in the same boat, we are both waiting for ABs, I've done business with John, so I take him at his word that Steve will deliver my hat. From my limited interaction with Steve, I also have no reason to suspect that I would not receive a hat. The wait may be long, but I don't know of any orders that simply disappeared.

 

[Tomasso]

I didn't paint Steve as a victim.

He should not be expected to work like a slave but he does.

15 hats a week x 52 = 780 hats @ $250 per hat = $195,000.00


Looks like the slave business pays pretty good these days.......

 

[casechopper]

That's assuming free hat bodies, sweat bands, liners etc... There are costs involved in making these hats that make his earnings much more modest than that.

15 hats a week x 52 = 780 hats @ $250 per hat = $195,000.00


Looks like the slave business pays pretty good these days.......

 

[Sam Craig]

I don't have a dog in this hunt.
I wish I could afford an AB or some other custom fedora ... but
Those of us who DO NOT have orders we are waiting for, might listen to Mr. Penman. I have watched the rise of his business over the years and he knows a lot about this topic.
For those who have never tried to own a business, cut these folks some slack.
For those who are still waiting ... try Romans 5:3-4
Perseverence is a good thing...

Sam

 

[Tomasso]

Those of us who DO NOT have orders we are waiting for, might listen to Mr. Penman.

For those who have never tried to own a business, cut these folks some slack.

For those who are still waiting ... try Romans 5:3-4

Perseverence is a good thing...

And what would the penalty be for disobeying your orders...........

 

[Sam Craig]

And what would the penalty be for disobeying your orders...........

Probably time to revist English 101

These would be "orders" that were placed in the effort to purchase an item ... not "orders" considered a declaratory statement.

Sam

 

[bendingoak]

It's funny how people think we get supplies for free.

 

[alanfgag]

Probably time to revist English 101

:arated:

 

[Sam Craig]

It's funny how people think we get supplies for free.

I just got back three old friends from Wichita Hat Works with new sweats and I don't know what Jack has to pay for his sweats, but I guarantee they aren't the cut-rate ones you see in some of the hat supply sites.
These feel great and look great and I know he isn't making nearly as much off them as he could.
Maybe if more of us tried working on a hat project or two, the value of BOTH the material and the labor would be more clear.
It was after I converted a couple of westerns to fedoras ... and was NEVER sad I'd done it, by the way ... that I came to the understanding that it was NOT worth my time and effort to replace sweats.
I simply can't do it as well, or get the quality of materials that I can get by taking them to Wichita Hat Works.... Some things in life are worth paying for.

Sam

 

[gtdean48]

It's funny how people think we get supplies for free.

There is a lot of "funny" thinking being revealed by folks on this thread.
Steve has clearly paid refunds when asked, so the wait is a choice by the buyer.
Each buyer has determined what is acceptable to them relating to a personal purchase.
Those passing judgement who aren't involved in a transaction with Steve are just being judgmental & should follow the silence is golden advice.