Adventurebilt hats - anyone ordered from?

[Tomasso]

He does also make Rabbit hats too at a lower cost. I myself bought one last year and he shipped it in about 9 weeks from the order date.

.

Wait, he's making some hats in 9 weeks while others take him 3 years?

 

[djd]

Wait, he's making some hats in 9 weeks while others take him 3 years?

I understand the rabbit hats are quicker to make than the beaver

 

[jlee562]

Wait, he's making some hats in 9 weeks while others take him 3 years?

Oy.....

Go back and read the last few pages.

Steve accepts new orders, beaver priced at $650, rabbit at $300, with a turnaround of 6-12 weeks, as aforementioned, these are done on his "day off." It's not that it takes him three years to make a hat, rather that the list is so long, people have been waiting for three years.

 

[Tomasso]

I get it; his day off rolleyes is occupied making not only $650 beaver hats but $300 rabbit hats. But then he makes so few of these that it really doesn't matter.......


This is a very illuminating thread.

 

[jlee562]

It really doesn't affect the wait time of anybody else. It is literally a handful of hats. All of this is obfuscating the fact that Steve pumps out 100% handmade hats at a dizzying pace, I believe he's said about 15 hats a week. Yes, members of TFL and COW who receive their hats are few and far between, but there are hundreds of orders that have been filled.

 

[djd]

Jlee- I'm not sure how you know he's only receiving a handful of new orders? If cow and fl account for only a few of the old orders what makes you think they account for a large percentage of the new orders? I've possibly misunderstood your meaning. Personally I thought 300 for a rabbit hat from Steve was good value and I'd be surprised if he didn't have a whole load of other folk thinking the same

 

[fmw]

All of this is immaterial. It doesn't matter how many hats of what type he makes. Taking someone's money for three years is simply unacceptable. He should refund all of it and start over. If he doesn't, he risks losing his business entirely.

 

[1BAT4U]

To clarify once again, I did not post on here to bad mouth Steve. And thanks bendingoak for making us aware of the situation more clearly. From all I've read and all my communications with Steve he has been very friendly and it's comforting to hear that people are STILL receiving their hats. The wait is long, yes, but I guess that's just what it has to be for ONE man to make a fully hand made hat from start to finish. Talks of lawsuits or anything are an over reaction. I just was wondering if I was lost in the que, if anyone had talked to steve recently to know how he's doing ect. so that I could have some faith in my hat one day arriving. That is all. And that has been answered, so I will remain patient and will happily post pictures of my AB when it finally does arrive.

I only get nervous when I'm simply trying to get in touch with him to tell him of my new address in a different state than when I ordered the hat. Hopefully I'll hear back from him before he ships my hat.... man I hope my head size is still the same :S

 

[jlee562]

Jlee- I'm not sure how you know he's only receiving a handful of new orders? If cow and fl account for only a few of the old orders what makes you think they account for a large percentage of the new orders? I've possibly misunderstood your meaning. Personally I thought 300 for a rabbit hat from Steve was good value and I'd be surprised if he didn't have a whole load of other folk thinking the same

Well, admittedly my evidence for saying so is anecdotal. I know of only a few COW/FL members who have paid for the $650 beaver, or the Rabbit hats, including our own Bruce Wayne if I'm not mistaken. As opposed to the late 07/early 08 orders, which is where Steve's wait list is currently at. These orders came in right after AB had announced they got the Indy IV film deal, and the vast majority of these orders are not COW/FL members, Steve has said as much himself (it is also a logical assumption).

As far as the new hats, here's what Steve said in announcing the rabbit hats:
http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=43569

As with the 650 buck CS fedora, the price of these hats will reflect an expedited delivery time, UNTIL the new film appears. I have to have those prices in place so I can charge the studio my site price, PLUS, the track record of the higher prices is so low that I can make them on my usual day off, until I get caught up on all of my back orders. So, this is not gonna delay any back order, if you are curious. I would rather take that day off, to be honest, but will work it as long as I have to. I don't expect to work many of them though. So this works out well for me, and kills two birds with one stone. Thanks guys. Steve

(emphasis mine)

All of this is immaterial. It doesn't matter how many hats of what type he makes. Taking someone's money for three years is simply unacceptable. He should refund all of it and start over. If he doesn't, he risks losing his business entirely.

Steve, in his own words, refunded money until he could do so no more. From COW, July 2010:

Me getting to and reponding to emails is a constant struggle. I get overwhelmed with the emails. And I have no doubt that I have missed some. It seems to be in regards to a refund, and the way I have had to handle those is I have to refund after I sell a hat. Why. Because I already bought up the bodies and parts to make the hat when you ordered. I refuned over 40 grand right before the economy crashed,and many had lost jobs and needed their hat order money to pay bills. I refunded until I ran out of refund money. What I can do, is to send you your hat body and the parts bought, and then the difference between that and what I charged you for it. So, I now have stacks of hat bodies that were bought for refunded orders. After this happened, awhile back, I posted a notice in the vendor section that I could no longer refund, due to this occurence.

The recession hurt alot of small business's, and I am not immune from it. And I refunded folks until I could not do it anymore, as it would cut into the operating expenses. I never really planned on being a banker, holding monies until someone lost their jobs, and found myself in that postion, and being the guy that I am, heck, I gave mucho money back, until I ran out and built up a huge inventory of bodies and parts. So, the recession kicked my tale to, not just the ones who got refunds. I recently got some money for the Henry, but those payments are not made to me in a timely manner, and I used all 2500 bucks of that for refunds on prior requests. I am struggling here, to keep all folks happy, and failing, it seems. So, if you want what was bought to make your hat, and then my profit on that hat, I can send that to you. Email me, with HAT BODY as the header so I can find it.

I hate it that this is the way that it is, but generally one does not have to refund so much, and the recession was the cause of it. And I turned into a savings institution for alot of folks. Hard to pull that off. Fedora

 

[Guttersnipe]

Not to fuel the fire, but if what jlee562 says is true about Steve/Adventurebilt not having cash on-hand to meet refunds, that is very bad news - and VERY bad business!

A business is free to do with its cash inflows what it pleases, but from an accounting perspective, when a business accepts payment for goods/services not yet performed it creates an inverse liability account and it cannot legally declare those funds as revenues, nor should it treat the cash inflows as such (to do otherwise is VERY foolish). If Steve's operations model is to buy raw materials as orders come in that's fine, but his position that he will refund raw materials is not copacetic.

Legally speaking, when a company takes payment for something which will be made and delivered at some future date, a contract is created; translated into accounting terms, that contract creates a liability which can only be extinguished by performance of the contract (delivering a hat in this case) or a cash refund. . .

. . . it's a rough situation, but it's not uncommon. I've seen a number of cottage industry/lifestyle business with these sorts of problems over the years. An owner will start a company out of love for whatever and get themselves into trouble down the road because being an expert in antiques/vintage clothes/restoring classic cars/making awesome fedoras/etc. doesn't mean you have any expertise in how the "sausage gets made" in other areas of the your business.

However, with the case of Steve and Adventurebilt, many, many people have vouched for him personally and professionally. He still delivers hats eventually and it doesn't seem like that will change anytime soon. It sounds like he's doing the best he can.

My 'gaming the system" cap tells me the thing to do to speed delivery is just order another hat (maybe through a friend or family member) get it, enjoy it, and ask for a refund on your original order . . .

 

[jlee562]

Just a clarification, the 2nd and 4th quote boxes in my above post are Steve's posts from COW, not my words or interpretation.

 

[James71]

By the sounds of it you could buy, wear, wear out, replace about three Fed IVs in the time it takes to get an adventurebuilt....

Ill stick with my off the shelf akubras. Hats are a clothing item. Buy em. Wear em.

 

[bendingoak]

again, please read my post.

 

[djd]

By the sounds of it you could buy, wear, wear out, replace about three Fed IVs in the time it takes to get an adventurebuilt....

Ill stick with my off the shelf akubras. Hats are a clothing item. Buy em. Wear em.

I don't think there's any comparison between the two. I like my fed IV but it's like a tough old helmet compared to my AB (which is only the rabbit version). My AB was my 4th Indy type fed and I knew that when I got it I had finally got what I'd been looking for. Along with my fed from Schubert Hats it's far and away the best hat I've owned. The fed IV is great value but it's not a custom hat and doesnt feel like one.

I can't complain about the service I got from AB. I'm glad I wasn't on the old list though because I'd be bugged too

 

[Rick Blaine]

All of this is immaterial. It doesn't matter how many hats of what type he makes. Taking someone's money for three years is simply unacceptable. He should refund all of it and start over. If he doesn't, he risks losing his business entirely.

Quite right.

 

[bendingoak]

a lot of monday morning quarterbacking going on.

 

[Rick Blaine]

Or

a lot of monday morning quarterbacking going on.

Some might call it, rather, a natural & not inappropriate consequence of the situation. [huh]

 

[fmw]

a lot of monday morning quarterbacking going on.

On Monday morning it is OK to take people's money for three years and then make hats to younger orders? Not on my calendar. You're tied up with the personal situation and your friendship. I'm just looking at the facts. The fact is this fellow has engaged in very bad business practice. I'm not criticizing his work or his work ethic. I am criticizing his business practice. I'd give some thought to supporting it in your shoes.

 

[Guttersnipe]

I wouldn't call my analysis "Monday morning quarterbacking" at all. I'd call it the learn'd opinion of someone on his way to a SECOND degree in business, with several years of experience doing consulting work with cottage industry businesses and other entrepreneurial ventures, who used to manage (and subsequently his own) manufacturing business. Problems like those faced Steve/Adventurebilt/their customers are systemic in the fine printing industry.

 

[bendingoak]

First,You don't have all the facts. you think you do but you don't.

Again, read my post for some of the information.

The movie news hit. He got slammed in a month ( most of how that list got made). He already had a few months lead time to begin with. No one could for-seen that he would get that he would received that many orders in a very short period of time. He raised his prices to slow or stop the orders. Closing his doors down didn't work (it made for even more than the hundreds of e-mails this man gets in a day). He placed his prices to $650.00 and it stopped the orders and cut down all the e-mails from coming in. He still gets a lot of e-mail but much less this way. He has made 5-6 hats at the new price that he works about a hour or so on Sunday. Really going to get bent over 5 or 6 hats. For a guy who works 16 hour days, 6 days a week. Are you really picking on him for that.

Its very easy looking back on thing and saying how to handle it but you were not in the man shoes during the whole thing. He is.

I'm not a fare weather friend. Steve is a good man and doing the best he can. He has refunded people who have asked for it.

I will say this. Steve will deliver a hat to every customer who has a order with him. That I am sure of.