Hands down, my favorite airplane flown by The Blue angels during my life tome was, the A4! I liked how tight their shows were, always in front of the crowed. I go back to the Grumman F11F1 Tiger. If I could go back in time, I would really love to have watched them flying their Grumman F8F-1 Bearcats! This is just one, imagine five Bearcats. [video=youtube;K65ByI110rY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K65ByI110rY[/video]
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A2s in the Jet Age
- Thread starter rocketeer
- Start date
nick123
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 6,371
- Location
- California
http://navypilotoverseas.wordpress.com/2011/03/07/lieut-geo-w-hoskins-blue-angel-pilot-1949/
To keep it leather relevant:
https://navypilotoverseas.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/blue_angels_1952.jpg
To keep it leather relevant:
https://navypilotoverseas.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/blue_angels_1952.jpg
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fishmeok
Vendor
- Messages
- 759
- Location
- minneapolis
Searching the Jetpilotoverseas.wordpress.com site I came across these pics.
Have a flick through the link and you will see a 1950s mix of leathers and nylon.
http://jetpilotoverseas.wordpress.com/category/a-2/
Johnny Tee
Take a look at the service caps these guys are wearing in the pics. The new USAF specifically designed them so they would be uniform and could not be "crushed". Removing the stiffener from the crown was forbidden. In almost all the pics the guys are doing it anyway...
Also the mix of WWII pinks and greens and new USAF uniforms-
Cheers
Mark
Doctor Damage
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 4,324
- Location
- Ontario
This is not an A-2 jacket, but it's leather in the jet age and not just for 'show':
alsendk
A-List Customer
- Messages
- 427
- Location
- Zealand Denmark
Exellent pics Deacon!!
Monsoon
A-List Customer
- Messages
- 351
- Location
- Harrisburg, PA
OK, quick A-4 story. Guy I work with said he was on carriers during the Vietnam War. They'd fully load an A4 and fire it from what they called the "Big Cat (catapult)".
One day, some VIP arrives on a COD and when he leaves, he wants to be fired from "The Big Cat". Yeah, that wasn't a good idea. He said it was like someone tossed a Frisbee; freakin' aircraft was damn near sideways after it left the deck.
Needless to say, new regs came out saying what could and couldn't be used on that Cat.
One day, some VIP arrives on a COD and when he leaves, he wants to be fired from "The Big Cat". Yeah, that wasn't a good idea. He said it was like someone tossed a Frisbee; freakin' aircraft was damn near sideways after it left the deck.
Needless to say, new regs came out saying what could and couldn't be used on that Cat.
Monsoon
A-List Customer
- Messages
- 351
- Location
- Harrisburg, PA
OK, I think I posted this info in anothe thread, so bear with me if I'm repeating myself.
When I retired from the Air National Guard two years ago, I went to supply and asked what they needed me to turn in.
Dude thought about it and said I had to turn in my gas mask and APECs Jacket (ABU camo patterned goretex rainjacket).
I asked, "No flight gear?" He said that's all squadron property, not Wing property and they never said they wanted it back. He gave me a funny look and said, "Besides, you aircrew are weird about your flight jackets."
Day came to turn my gear in and he only asked for my gas mask, so I even kept my APECs, too.
Squadron policy was if you retired, you kept your A-2. I know most guys, whether they retired or not, kept theirs.
When I retired from the Air National Guard two years ago, I went to supply and asked what they needed me to turn in.
Dude thought about it and said I had to turn in my gas mask and APECs Jacket (ABU camo patterned goretex rainjacket).
I asked, "No flight gear?" He said that's all squadron property, not Wing property and they never said they wanted it back. He gave me a funny look and said, "Besides, you aircrew are weird about your flight jackets."
Day came to turn my gear in and he only asked for my gas mask, so I even kept my APECs, too.
Squadron policy was if you retired, you kept your A-2. I know most guys, whether they retired or not, kept theirs.
Brettafett
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,353
- Location
- UK
Have you guys seen this?
http://www.aviad.it/p/10397/zigolo-mg12.html
Back to grass roots flying. Inexpensive, bugs in your teeth and simply aviation FUN. No need to spend a mortgage on a license and a lifetime reading NOTAMS and nonesense...
http://www.aviad.it/p/10397/zigolo-mg12.html
Back to grass roots flying. Inexpensive, bugs in your teeth and simply aviation FUN. No need to spend a mortgage on a license and a lifetime reading NOTAMS and nonesense...
Treetopflyer
Practically Family
- Messages
- 674
- Location
- Patuxent River, MD
This is not an A-2 jacket, but it's leather in the jet age and not just for 'show':
I don't fly a jet, but I wear my issued leather flight jacket (G-1) when I fly my helicopter in cold weather. People tend to forget that it is an issued piece of flight gear that is meant to be worn in the cockpit.
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Himel Bros. - The Ross Mk. 1 Leather Jacket Classic D-pocket motorcycle/aviator style jacket.
blazerbud
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 138
- Location
- Chattanooga, TN
That's too attainable. Flight needs to remain a dream way out there in my imagination. If it is within reach, it isn't a dream, and dangerous in my hands. A girl at work has several ultralights, her boyfriend is always offering to take me up. I know what motorcycles and fast cars do to me, I have to let this rest. It would be a drug like heroin.
I was going to say that must be a old shot with those helmets and the old G-suits...that's the one I was issued with the big leg pockets.
One thing that is interesting is that, in jets back in the '90s, wearing your leather was frowned upon or expressly forbidden in the cockpit. Leather isn't Nomex and the knits, lining, and collar are at least partially synthetic which has the same downside as the the old nylon jackets...it will melt to you if it catches on fire.
You can actually see that the two pilots above are wearing their jackets OVER their torso harnesses. You can see the leg straps choking off their junk but the Koch fittings that the parachute risers clip to are concealed beneath the jackets. For the most part, you would wear your jacket out to the jet, take it off, and shove it under your seat....carefully. That wasn't always the greatest idea if it was cold and you had to eject. But in colder weather, you always had the option of wearing the Nomex long john top, or you could squeeze your Nomex jacket underneath the harness, though it was pretty uncomfortable.
Treetopflyer, it's interesting that other communities were more broad in their interpretation of the leather jacket wear. Certainly there was no less of a chance of flash fire in a helo than in a jet. I also saw the C-130 guys wear their jackets pretty commonly showing that the rules were pretty non-standard.
One thing that is interesting is that, in jets back in the '90s, wearing your leather was frowned upon or expressly forbidden in the cockpit. Leather isn't Nomex and the knits, lining, and collar are at least partially synthetic which has the same downside as the the old nylon jackets...it will melt to you if it catches on fire.
You can actually see that the two pilots above are wearing their jackets OVER their torso harnesses. You can see the leg straps choking off their junk but the Koch fittings that the parachute risers clip to are concealed beneath the jackets. For the most part, you would wear your jacket out to the jet, take it off, and shove it under your seat....carefully. That wasn't always the greatest idea if it was cold and you had to eject. But in colder weather, you always had the option of wearing the Nomex long john top, or you could squeeze your Nomex jacket underneath the harness, though it was pretty uncomfortable.
Treetopflyer, it's interesting that other communities were more broad in their interpretation of the leather jacket wear. Certainly there was no less of a chance of flash fire in a helo than in a jet. I also saw the C-130 guys wear their jackets pretty commonly showing that the rules were pretty non-standard.
Oh, and I've been seriously thinking of building this... 
http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/sopwithpup.html
http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/sopwithpup.html
Oh, and I've been seriously thinking of building this...
http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/sopwithpup.html
That would be fun to fly! To bad the American to Australian dollar exchange rate is not the same as in the 90s, roughly 60 cents to buy an Aussie! That would make one of those Rotac R-2800 engines a bargain and a half.
Doctor Damage
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 4,324
- Location
- Ontario
That's very interesting. Basically you're saying, based on your experience at least, that the jacket (leather and nomex) are sort of "wait jackets" for hanging around waiting, rather than something that's actually used in flight. Sort of like how pro sports guys have jackets they throw on between innings or whatever when they're idle. Although I guess, as you say, you'd miss the jacket if you had to eject in bad weather somewhere and couldn't count on speedy rescue or pick-up.
Well, truly there was no need to wear them in the cockpit of any pressurized plane; you were sitting on all the hot air that you would ever need!
Oftentimes, the canopy would get very cold though and you might feel the chill on your shoulders or arms. On the other hand, your torso, legs, and head were covered in so much flight gear that heat was not generally much of an issue if the ECS was working at all.
The other issue was that the torso harness, which you put on like a front-zipped old timey one piece bathing suit (unlike the AF version which fit like a vest with straps that you ran between your legs from behind), was custom fit to be as tight as humanly possible. Slack is very bad in a parachute harness and you knew it fit well if you couldn't stand up straight. The downside to that is that the harness is meant to fit what you are wearing when you fit it. So, if you tried to put on a jacket or anything bulky (i.e. warm) underneath, it made the tight fit even tighter with any excess cloth spilling out to the sides, top, bottom, and back of an already uncomfortable garment.
You could and were probably supposed to get the harness refitted in with the change of seasons. When flying over water there were regs that required dry suit wear and if you thought the jacket was uncomfortable, the dry suit fit like you were being strangled even without all the flight gear over it. But few guys I knew went to the effort of getting refit, just putting up with the dry suit (which was never going to be comfortable anyway) and largely trusting in the alacrity of the SAR effort to keep their discomfort to a minimum.
Of course, all this was in relative peacetime for me. I think that, if you were going into the badlands, you might just reconsider dressing for a few days crawling in the mud. But who knows?
The other thing that I don't think exactly sold the Nomex as a critical piece of survival equipment is that it soaked up water like a sponge. Personally, if I were evading, I think I would have preferred the leather.
Oftentimes, the canopy would get very cold though and you might feel the chill on your shoulders or arms. On the other hand, your torso, legs, and head were covered in so much flight gear that heat was not generally much of an issue if the ECS was working at all.
The other issue was that the torso harness, which you put on like a front-zipped old timey one piece bathing suit (unlike the AF version which fit like a vest with straps that you ran between your legs from behind), was custom fit to be as tight as humanly possible. Slack is very bad in a parachute harness and you knew it fit well if you couldn't stand up straight. The downside to that is that the harness is meant to fit what you are wearing when you fit it. So, if you tried to put on a jacket or anything bulky (i.e. warm) underneath, it made the tight fit even tighter with any excess cloth spilling out to the sides, top, bottom, and back of an already uncomfortable garment.
You could and were probably supposed to get the harness refitted in with the change of seasons. When flying over water there were regs that required dry suit wear and if you thought the jacket was uncomfortable, the dry suit fit like you were being strangled even without all the flight gear over it. But few guys I knew went to the effort of getting refit, just putting up with the dry suit (which was never going to be comfortable anyway) and largely trusting in the alacrity of the SAR effort to keep their discomfort to a minimum.
Of course, all this was in relative peacetime for me. I think that, if you were going into the badlands, you might just reconsider dressing for a few days crawling in the mud. But who knows?
The other thing that I don't think exactly sold the Nomex as a critical piece of survival equipment is that it soaked up water like a sponge. Personally, if I were evading, I think I would have preferred the leather.
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Well, truly there was no need to wear them in the cockpit of any pressurized plane; you were sitting on all the hot air that you would ever need!
Oftentimes, the canopy would get very cold though and you might feel the chill on your shoulders or arms. On the other hand, your torso, legs, and head were covered in so much flight gear that heat was not generally much of an issue if the ECS was working at all.
The other issue was that the torso harness, which you put on like a front-zipped old timey one piece bathing suit (unlike the AF version which fit like a vest with straps that you ran between your legs from behind), was custom fit to be as tight as humanly possible. Slack is very bad in a parachute harness and you knew it fit well if you couldn't stand up straight. The downside to that is that the harness is meant to fit what you are wearing when you fit it. So, if you tried to put on a jacket or anything bulky (i.e. warm) underneath, it made the tight fit even tighter with any excess cloth spilling out to the sides, top, bottom, and back of an already uncomfortable garment.
You could and were probably supposed to get the harness refitted in with the change of seasons. When flying over water there were regs that required dry suit wear and if you thought the jacket was uncomfortable, the dry suit fit like you were being strangled even without all the flight gear over it. But few guys I knew went to the effort of getting refit, just putting up with the dry suit (which was never going to be comfortable anyway) and largely trusting in the alacrity of the SAR effort to keep their discomfort to a minimum.
Of course, all this was in relative peacetime for me. I think that, if you were going into the badlands, you might just reconsider dressing for a few days crawling in the mud. But who knows?
The other thing that I don't think exactly sold the Nomex as a critical piece of survival equipment is that it soaked up water like a sponge. Personally, if I were evading, I think I would have preferred the leather.
Many thanks Deacon, I'm finding your insights and knowledge hugely informative.
:eusa_clap
