A2 vs. G1

[jake431]

I personally find a M-422a (WW2 era G-1) to be more practical, because the body length is longer. Less practical if you are flying a fighter in ww2 because it can ride up a bit, but perfect when you don't tuck a shirt in. Also, the bi-swing back is more comfortable.

But that doesn't mean I don't jones for a good A-2 someday.

My 2 cents.

-Jake

 

[tripreed]

See what you've caused Trip! Just remember, no darts.

What I've caused? You're the one who sent me over here!

I vote for the Indy jacket from Wested.

Care to help finance it?

 

[tripreed]

Hi,

OK, Here's a stab at what I think.

If I were getting a reproduction A-2 I would at least want:
1. Goatskin or horsehide leather.
2. A one-piece back.
3. A WWII styled (smaller, bell-shaped) zipper.
4. Military spec. knits.

I would not want:
1. Hand warmer pockets.
2. Interior pockets.
3. Bloodchits, pinup babes, maps or anything else printed on the lining.
4. Artificially distressed leather.
5. Nekked girls painted on the back (or front).


I would not want a reproduction G-1 of any kind---I would want an original.

Atticus

.
Thanks for tips. Those all sound like good advice (except for the "nekked girls" )

 

[Twitch]

And not to throw a wrench into this topic but what the heck "official " designation is the jacket in my Howard Hughes avatar? http://www.nytstore.com/ProdDetail.aspx?prodId=2671 It's sort of a G-2 but pockets are different.

 

[Fletch]

The G-2 really didn't exist at all in the 40s, and it's never been an approved military style. In fact it's never looked like HH's jacket at all. That's got to be a civvy model, likely a custom design.

G-2 is US Wings' (and, formerly, Cooper's) model name for a G-1 type jacket without a fur collar (aka AN-J-2 or -3, which are real mil specs but don't quite apply either...-2 was khaki poplin with no knits and -3 was either epauletted and zip-flapped for the AAF or else -3A, same as the Navy 422s...someone say something about a can of worms???).
Other brands use the name G-2 for a style called the "Raider," with zipped pockets over handwarmers.

US Wings antique lamb G-2

Sporty's Pilot Shop G-2 "Raider"

 

[Edward]

I appreciate everyone's replies and opinions on the jackets. I'm not sure if I'm quite to the point of having one of each, but I guess time will tell

Currently I am in grad school and, therefore, am on a limited budget. Because of this my first purchase will most likely be coming from Ebay. Perhaps this should be its own separate thread, but I wondered if there are any specific features that I should look for or avoid? Thanks.

If you're buying on eBay, then my advice would be that whichever you buy first is down to whichever you get a good deal on first! I should have thought based on my own viewing of eBay and what seems to be the more popular in these parts too you'd find a good G1 type faster, but you could be lucky on an A2. If you want an authentic WW2 era fit, I'd be looking at keeping an eye out for a used replica from one of the known repro manufacturers - Aero, ELC, etc....

 

[kampkatz]

Edward's fantasy really expresses what most collectors dream once they start seeing, and feeling(even sniffing) all the different flight jackets out there. If your budget allows it (and your conscience is clear) go for whatever your heart desires and enjoy. Life is too short to look back and say" If only I had done that when I had the opportunity."

 

[Kevin Popejoy]

G-1 without a doubt. Speaking of which, is there anywhere I can get the knit material replaced on a G-1? I have one, but the knit material is threadbare, to be polite.

Hey Dave,

I just had my early 50's vintage G-1 re-done with new knits. I sourced the knits from Flightsuits, aka Gibson and Barnes (800-748-6693). Don't bother with e-mail, just call them. Ask for the "historical" knits to get the correct single ply wool waist knit. I think they cost me about $25 for the set. Have your local tailor do the work. It's not a very difficult job and it'll be cheaper than sending it out to one of the flight jacket makers. Gibson and Barnes will do the work on their own jackets but not other manufacturers stuff. Shaul at US Authentic will do the work if you can't find someone local. He rehabed an A-2 for me a while back and did a decent job. He'll provide knits but they'd not be the right ones so you'd still need to get a set from G&B and send them along.

Good luck, Kevin

 

[tripreed]

OK, I just got this G-1 on Ebay. Anyone care to critique the purchase?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280157860618&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=018

 

[Doctor Strange]

Looks like you did okay... but it's not a proper "vintage G-1."

It's a dead ringer for the old Schott Bomber I used to have in the 80s. It was an outstanding, very warm, extremely tough jacket, but very much a mish-mosh of A-2 and G-1 features, plus things that neither ever had, like the pile lining, handwarmer pockets, and all the visible snaps. And made in heavy cowhide.

But it's a start - mine was my first leather "flight jacket", and I loved it!

 

[Twitch]

Fletch, I you you hit it right as a civilian manufactured jacket. And there are lots of take offs and civilian versions out there I've been seeing for decades. I like the Hughes jacket generally for it's light wieht in So. Cal. climate. Probably he did too.

 

[Edward]

Looks like a nice jacket! IMO - YMMV, of course - a lot of the civilian versions of those military jackets have a post-war / 1950s civilian look to them, bearing in mind how influential those military designs were on the design of a lot of civilian garments.

Something that would tempt me, actually, would be a true 40s-style / cut jacket incorporating soem of the features of the modern Schott-style versions. For instance, a 40s cut and design "A2" which had an attachable collar and lining that would give it the feel of a hybrid between the forerunner of the G1 (blanking on the name just now) and a B6.... not historically accurate by any means, but it would look period correct and be a very practical year-round jacket.

 

[kampkatz]

The A2/G1 combo is fine for just a leather jacket. At $40 it is a bargain.

 

[Edward]

The A2/G1 combo is fine for just a leather jacket. At $40 it is a bargain.

It certainly is. I'd have expected a jacket like that to sell for at least $80 over here.

 

[Fletch]

Something that would tempt me, actually, would be a true 40s-style / cut jacket incorporating soem of the features of the modern Schott-style versions. For instance, a 40s cut and design "A2" which had an attachable collar and lining that would give it the feel of a hybrid between the forerunner of the G1 (blanking on the name just now) and a B6.... not historically accurate by any means, but it would look period correct and be a very practical year-round jacket.

The jacket you're trying but failing to think of is the M-422A.

Taking inauthenticity a step further: I would like the idea of a G-8 with a button out shearling collar and liner. It would have to be thin like that in the B-6, or else the jacket would be too big with it out or too small with it in.

The G-8 was never Navy issue, but a very similar pattern was speced for the M-444/445 and AN-J-4 shearlings.

US Authentic M-444

 

[tripreed]

Looks like you did okay... but it's not a proper "vintage G-1."

It's a dead ringer for the old Schott Bomber I used to have in the 80s. It was an outstanding, very warm, extremely tough jacket, but very much a mish-mosh of A-2 and G-1 features, plus things that neither ever had, like the pile lining, handwarmer pockets, and all the visible snaps. And made in heavy cowhide.

But it's a start - mine was my first leather "flight jacket", and I loved it!

Thanks for the honest opinion. While I am perhaps a little disappointed, maybe it will just be the first of many

 

[Edward]

The jacket you're trying but failing to think of is the M-422A.

Beautiful, yes.... The A2 has to come first for me, then it'll be either a B10 and a B6 - in whichever order - after that, something heavier (I'm leaning in favour of a B2/3 at present over an Irvin, as much as anything because I could'nt justify a B3 and an Irvin, but if later on someone does a good repro of the Coastal Units Irvin with the hood.... I'd sacrifice authenticity on the yellow colour of the hood, though!)... once done there, I'm tempted by the M-422A. I'm sure I'd find some excuse - like getting it in a different shade or leather to the A2...

Had hoped I'd have an A2 already, but financial realities have so far intervened. After months of never quite finding the time, I'm now getting my broadband sorted out at home though and I'll be selling on eBay with a vengeance. I figure I have enough to sell that I could manage at least an A2 and a B10 out of that. Those will be my reward for clearing out some of the clutter I attract in an almost C.D.O. fashion.

Taking inauthenticity a step further: I would like the idea of a G-8 with a button out shearling collar and liner. It would have to be thin like that in the B-6, or else the jacket would be too big with it out or too small with it in.

The G-8 was never Navy issue, but a very similar pattern was speced for the M-444/445 and AN-J-4 shearlings.

US Authentic M-444

That's exactly the kind of thing I'm thinking, yes. It seems to me that the idea of an extra liner is a dying concept for the masses.... I guess in this day and age when almost everyone can afford a jacket (or several) for each season, there isn't the need there maybe was in earlier times to make the one coat as flexible as possible for year round use. Where does the G8 fit into the scheme of things? It looks a lot like it may have been the design the Indiana Jones jacket (which I've always previously thought of as sort of an A2 designed without knits).

Also, the M-444/445 and AN-J-4... what were the main differences there? I think I now have a handle on the basic model range for the USAAF jackets in the war era, but I'm still not clear on the USN stuff. I guess what I really need to do is to pick up a good reference work on this, though I'm struggling to find one that's not the price of a significant chunk of an A2!

 

[Edward]

Thanks for the honest opinion. While I am perhaps a little disappointed, maybe it will just be the first of many

I did exactly the same thing just about when I joined the lounge - bought a modern Schott style bomber, and I know it's not quite the same. It is, however, a nice jacket, and at that price you can't lose: it'll do very nicely until you can afford a more accurate reproduction.... plus you might even find that the more relaxed modern fit (which you can fit a sweater under easily) might be better in the colder months, so it would do you until you decide to buy a B3 / Irvin / other shearling type.

 

[Fanch]

I am new to this forum but currently own two A-2's (Aero-Bronco and Cooper) and one G-1 (Cooper). I have previously owned both a Willis & Geiger A-2 and G-1, and also an original U.S. Naval contract G-1 many years ago. I gave away both W&G jackets as the sleeves were too short in both jackets. I am 6' 2" and weigh about 190 pounds; I have very little mid-section paunch.

Because of the bi-swing back and gusseted underarms, the G-1 allows much more freedom of movement than the A-2 and is much more comfortable to wear than the A-2. My Cooper A-2 is a 46L and has a great deal of excess leather in the mid-section but is somewhat tight and restrictive in the shoulders. My Cooper G-1 is a 46 (regular) and is more snug in the mid-section but much less restrictive in the shoulders than the A-2. Hence, the G-1 is much more user friendly, at least to me.

My Aero Bronco in russet goatskin is a 48L and fits differently than the Cooper A-2, with much less excess leather in the mid-section, different design in the arm holes, and a heavier, stiffer grade of goatskin than the Cooper jackets. Of course, in terms of quality of materials and construction, the Aero product is vastly superior to Cooper. I recently purchased my Aero Bronco through Mark Moye, who is the U.S. representative for Aero. Mark was able to accomplish the fit for my Aero exactly as I requested, and I am unable to express in words just how capable and effective he is. I specifically asked for a fuller fit than the "military" and could have easily have gone with a 46L. In any case, the Aero Bronco probably fits me as well as an A-2 is capable of fitting.

 

[Edward]

Hi, Fanch. I like what I'm hearing - sounds like it's gonig to be easier and easier to justify buying both the Army and Navy jackets, as and when I have the cash.

ETA:

I see quite a few 70s G1s gonig on eBay.... did they still have the narrower fit of their 40s forerunners, or by then had they gone the way of the later, baggy A2?