A Message From Aero Leather USA

[dr.velociraptor]

Aero USA usually over the years offered various partial payment options on ebay - not a scam or anything new.

I understand that but I've been watching eBay and Aero jackets and the deposit dropped from $500 down to $300 in recent months/weeks and were still available very recently on eBay. I assume before a company goes belly up there are signs and if deposits were being taken, and at reduced prices to boost sales knowing the company was going down and they had no intention of ever putting the order into Aero (which from reading this thread appears to have happened) than that is certainly a concern.

I see one guy got a refund and that's a good sign, but depending on how many deposits were taken and how many unfulfilled orders there are it may not be possible to recoup all the losses.

 

[frussell]

There have been deposit options lower than $500 for some time now. I know because I used the $350 deposit option back in June of 2011 when I ordered my Long Half Belt. It was convenient at the time, and I felt a little safer knowing I only had 1/3 of the total cost tied up if something went wrong. Took a little over 8 months, but Mark got my jacket to me as promised, and I paid the rest once he had it in hand to send out to me. The only weird thing (not suspicious, just odd) about the eBay deposit system was that if your jacket didn't come within a month or so, the option to leave feedback for that transaction was no longer available, as items as old as 8 months don't pop up any more. Overall, the deposit program of AeroUSA worked just fine for me. Sounds like I got mine just in time, and I really feel bad for those left hanging on both sides, especially those who have been waiting in anticipation. No fun. Nothing but good wishes on my part for the folks in Scotland and their continued success, and for Mark, who delivered what he promised me. Frank

 

[ButteMT61]

There have been $100, $200, $300 and $500 options as far back as I can recall (correctly).It has nothing to do with what's going on as far as I can tell. No point speculating here. We've done enough of that and it's probably best to just let things take their course and see how those affected get along.

 

[pauleway]

I trust Aero too. And I certainly will be buying more jackets from them. Without a doubt.

Just put in an order with Amanda for my 2nd jacket from them yesterday!

 

[dash69]

Hello,as it stand's i've been had for 2 jacket's from Mr moye that i ordered last july.I believe i've exhausted all option's.This is a lot of money.I'm trying to get past this and get my jacket's direct now.Everyone has there turn on the rack so to speak.I had a teamster and zip hwym allegedly on order.Maybe this will lighten the blow for some.Almost 1600.00 buck's...Anyway,not to beat a dead horse the aero folk's,holly especially seem to be very understanding and somewhat helpfull.Truth be told,i wouldn't want to be walking in mark moye's shoe's right now.Maybe he'll make good,maybe not...He could be heading to club fed,maybe not.I dont wish anything bad for him.He fleeced me,plain and simple.But i will say action's say more than any good word's for him.And as i said to him in my last email,i really hope he man's up and get's himself right.

 

[dr.velociraptor]

Hello,as it stand's i've been had for 2 jacket's from Mr moye that i ordered last july.I believe i've exhausted all option's.This is a lot of money.I'm trying to get past this and get my jacket's direct now.Everyone has there turn on the rack so to speak.I had a teamster and zip hwym allegedly on order.Maybe this will lighten the blow for some.Almost 1600.00 buck's...Anyway,not to beat a dead horse the aero folk's,holly especially seem to be very understanding and somewhat helpfull.Truth be told,i wouldn't want to be walking in mark moye's shoe's right now.Maybe he'll make good,maybe not...He could be heading to club fed,maybe not.I dont wish anything bad for him.He fleeced me,plain and simple.But i will say action's say more than any good word's for him.And as i said to him in my last email,i really hope he man's up and get's himself right.

Shhhh we're not allowed to speculate here...

 

[dash69]

Hahaha,woop's my bad.If i didn't partly speculate,i'd really piss someone off...

 

[nissle]

Although, I've been sick to my stomach, i do hope whatever Mark is goining through is not too serious.

 

[Deacon]

Last December I placed an order with Mark via eBay, paying the full price for a Half-Belt by using PayPal's Bill Me Later credit plan. I'm scheduled to begin payments in May. Needless to say, it's not going to be very enjoyable making those payments without having received anything in return, especially knowing that the money that I've set aside to pay off my account can't be used to order another jacket directly from Aero, Scotland.

 

[cloudylemonade]

I,too,want to thank Holly for posting on the FL.
Her Dad has a strong constitution and could handle the heat of any forum (for sure).
Looks like Daughter like Father...which is quite a good thing...in my view.
Van

Thanks Van, I do take after my father in this way (and probably many others).

 

[cloudylemonade]

Hello,as it stand's i've been had for 2 jacket's from Mr moye that i ordered last july.I believe i've exhausted all option's.This is a lot of money.I'm trying to get past this and get my jacket's direct now.Everyone has there turn on the rack so to speak.I had a teamster and zip hwym allegedly on order.Maybe this will lighten the blow for some.Almost 1600.00 buck's...Anyway,not to beat a dead horse the aero folk's,holly especially seem to be very understanding and somewhat helpfull.Truth be told,i wouldn't want to be walking in mark moye's shoe's right now.Maybe he'll make good,maybe not...He could be heading to club fed,maybe not.I dont wish anything bad for him.He fleeced me,plain and simple.But i will say action's say more than any good word's for him.And as i said to him in my last email,i really hope he man's up and get's himself right.

Patrick? If so, I've emailed you.

 

[cloudylemonade]

Last December I placed an order with Mark via eBay, paying the full price for a Half-Belt by using PayPal's Bill Me Later credit plan. I'm scheduled to begin payments in May. Needless to say, it's not going to be very enjoyable making those payments without having received anything in return, especially knowing that the money that I've set aside to pay off my account can't be used to order another jacket directly from Aero, Scotland.

We're trying to think of a way to help with paypal here, it's insanity they expect you to continue making payments for this. I will be back in touch later today after we've had some discussion about what's best to do.

 

[olworthers]

All,

I'm new to the forum, I purchased a used barnstormer from Aero Leathers (Scotland) a few weeks ago. The coat itself is staggeringly good - easily the finest I have ever seen (and I consider myself someone who knows quality when I see it!). Equally the customer service was excellent, and that stands out a mile in the UK, only a handful of companies still treat their customers properly in this way (Trickers shoes being another). I appreciate all the issues going on with Aero USA and I can only begin to imagine how some of you guys caught up in it feel.
Just wanted to share my experience and say that the Aero USA problems shouldn't put you off dealing with Aero directly in Scotland as I have found them to be an exceptional company with truly exceptional products!

Cheers,

OW

 

[jlanderson]

We're trying to think of a way to help with paypal here, it's insanity they expect you to continue making payments for this. I will be back in touch later today after we've had some discussion about what's best to do.

And I just want to add here that Holly and her dad have been absolutely stand-up throughout all of this scandal. The letter of the law might not have required them to do one thing ... after all, Moye was an independent retailer who perhaps used the name "Aero Leather" a bit too liberally, but Holly and her dad instinctively knew they had a moral obligation to meet. And, boy, have they! They've bent over backward to help all of us through this, and that service has certainly cemented my loyalty to the company.

You just don't come across many businesspeople like that these days, as dozens of us sadly have been made aware of in the last week.

jlanderson

 

[ButteMT61]

This is good to hear. I wouldn't expect different. I certainly hope that they get settled soon and back to normal. You sure don't expect this sort of thing in a forum about jackets. I suppose some year we'll look back and laugh - maybe ~2025? lol

 

[coloradorider]

And I just want to add here that Holly and her dad have been absolutely stand-up throughout all of this scandal. The letter of the law might not have required them to do one thing ... after all, Moye was an independent retailer who perhaps used the name "Aero Leather" a bit too liberally, but Holly and her dad instinctively knew they had a moral obligation to meet. And, boy, have they! They've bent over backward to help all of us through this, and that service has certainly cemented my loyalty to the company.

You just don't come across many businesspeople like that these days, as dozens of us sadly have been made aware of in the last week.

jlanderson

My $0.02

I found out from Holly that Mark Moye had deceived me about the status of an order since last summer. The only contact I received from Mark Moye was immediately after Holly's initial e-mail. Mark Moye has had over four days to acknowledge my immediate communication and he hasn't. I appreciate Holly's effort to notify customers about the situation, communicating details about what happened, and honoring prices that were paid to Mark Moye for jacket purchases. I'd consider this a minimum to protect the reputation of Aero Leather Scotland since they showed a complete lack of understanding in contractor management. Mark Moye represented himself as a representative of Aero Leather and Aero Leather Scotland did nothing to stop this misrepresentation even though it persisted for many years. Mark's deception regarding the status of Aero jacket orders went on for over a year and it only was only communicated by Aero Leather Scotland last week. There's been a healthy discussion on this forum regarding Aero USA vs Aero Scotland wait times so this should have raised some red flags absent any other oversight from Aero Scotland. Aero Scotland clearly needs to handle any potential resellers more appropriately in the future. I would have only paid a deposit had I known Mark's true relationship with the factory instead of prepaying the full amount. For context - you don't expect a manufacturer with a 4-5 month waiting time and several employees to go out of business but a one-man business reseller could get hit by a bus tomorrow and you're out of luck.

There's been some defense of Mark Moye because some jacket orders were cancelled by the factory. Holly indicated to me they are recommending opening PayPal disputes because Mark Moye quit paying the factory (ie they don't think he has the money to write checks for reimbursement). Aero Scotland was in the unfortunate position of continuing to supply a non-paying reseller and hoping things would get worked out or cutting off the non-paying reseller and exposing the buyers to a financial loss. JLANDERSON is right that they had a moral obligation to step up when they discovered the extent of Mark's deceptions (I don't say fraud since we don't have proof this situation is due to his own financial gain - I think we can all agree he engaged in systematic deceptions for over a year). Aero Scotland "Bending over backwards" is hyperbole in my opinion although everyone is welcome to their own. I believe that Aero Leather Scotland let a reseller take liberties with their name and reputation and was caught up in this situation the same as many of the forum members.

I'm patiently waiting to see if Mark Moye makes good on his debt to me. I'm also pursuing other means. In the US PayPal, eBay, and most credit cards have 60-day protections for custom made items so everyone in our situation may only have legal recourse which isn't cost-effective for me since I don't live in South Carolina. Call your credit card company and dispute the charges - the 60 days is common but your specific card agreement may be much more generous.

I don't care what Mark's specific situation is that culminated in this situation. He has shown a lack of character and integrity over the last year so the supposition that this is the result of some specific incident rings hollow with me. I hope that he makes this situation right with the many customers who don't have financial protection for their purchases. I do hope that he is doing well and respect everyone's opinion here on the forum who has had good experiences with him. I actually appreciate your comments detailing your positive experiences with Mark Moye since it gives me hope that he will make this right. He will suffer professionally for this chicanery and your positive feedback balances the negativity regarding this situation since he shouldn't be wholly defined by this. I disagree with some members and moderators who don't have a financial stake in this telling other members who are potentially out a lot of money how to react to this situation. This feedback reeks of sanctimony and I urge you to consider your reaction if your positive experience with Mark Moye resulted in getting strung on for almost a year and never receiving the jacket you're so proud of. I haven't noted one comment on the forum where a member stated they never received their jacket but the value of communication in specifying ordering details made the experience worthwhile.

I saw one member received a refund so I'm holding out hope and will update how my situation gets resolved.

Cheers all

 

[coloradorider]

I'm sorry you feel this way, I am perhaps biased as Ken Calder is my father, but Aero and everything it stands for is his life's work, and I for one am immensely proud of everything he and the company have achieved.......

Classy response Holly.

 

[trob09]

I saw one member received a refund so I'm holding out hope and will update how my situation gets resolved.

Cheers all

Assuming that I am the one member referenced, I can only hope that all others make out as well as I did, given the obvious problems at hand. My fear is that - as time goes by - some people won't.

 

[2jakes]

An open post to Aero USA !

I've been reading the #1 post by Mark where he writes of economic difficulties with his business & having to shut down. I have
also read of my fellow members who have waited for a reply to their orders & feel betrayed or frustrated because of a lack of
response. Mark I don't know your situation, & perhaps it is overwhelming to rectify everything at once, or maybe you cannot do
it at this time. I hope everything works out & any thoughts will be appreciated.

 

[cloudylemonade]

My $0.02....

We should have been more diligent? On the contrary, we acted THE MOMENT Mark Moye exceeded his pre-arranged credit limit. You may or may not be aware of standard wholesale practice where customers who own shops and resell goods bought from a supplier.

Standard trade terms are 30 days credit with a limit agreed as to the maximum amount of credit.

Mark was allowed a temporary extension to his limit at Christmas, this too is quite common at peak times of business when more stock is need for shops who are very busy and cash flow can get tight awaiting end users to pay for their goods and while Banks are so loathe to help the little guy.

This extension was reduced by Mark by 25% over the next few weeks leaving him still over his credit limit but we aren't talking a great deal of money here, we have accounts ten times the size of Mark Moye's. So when he was told he wouldn't receive any more goods until his account was brought back into the black he said he couldn't pay and would have to close his business.

We respected his decision as we would any other store. He also indicated there were a few of his customers with jackets orders outstanding. We said we'd do what we could to help, we'd write off the money he owed us which wasn't that large an amount anyway in the grand scheme of things, as we now know it, as if he couldn't pay the only other thing was to sue him and it would probably cost us more than what he owed. Also, like many of you, we liked him and didn't want to kick him when he was down. We then said we would see what we could do about the outstanding orders once we had a list from him. We never knew the customers name when an order came, after all it was none of our business who he sold the jacket on to, we were only ever sent a list of jackets, under Mark Moye’s name.

When we saw the list of what we were told was the full extent of his order book we were shocked, it was far worse than anyone could have imagined especially as most orders he'd taken were paid in full to him in advance. At that point we started contacting customers through the limited info passed on by Donna Moye. We also advertised for customers of Mark's that we might not have known about to get in touch with the factory via the news section of our website, Facebook and The Fedora Lounge.

Mark Moye made it very clear in the opening post of this thread that he was a "Stand Alone" individual trader. If he felt there was any way he could have passed the buck to the factory, why on Earth would he do that? If he was an agent or represented the Aero factory in any way whatsoever only a total fool would take the blame himself, surely?

He was never a rep or agent of Aero Leather Clothing Ltd, he was never paid a single penny by the factory, if he claimed to be such it was without our knowledge or permission. Like other stores that sell Aero worldwide but are not anything to do with the factory other than as customers we did allow him to use an abbreviation of the registered trade name. He paid nothing for this, some companies such as him and Aero Japan for instance are given use of the name for free so long as they buy from us, that doesn't even make them a franchise, nobody gets to use the full name whether they pay us or not. Other firms like Real McCoys pay us a commission for the use of our brand name in their products. This does not make Aero responsible for anyone who falls out with Aero Japan or Real McCoy or any other shop that stocks our products.

We can't delve into other companies financial affairs beyond taking up trade references before opening an account. Unless a company starts to exceed their credit or fall behind with the 30 day payment rule we have no reason to suspect any problems.

Until now we’ve had no time, or reason to spend time monitoring discussing on the fedora lounge, it was only upon discovering the current situation that we were made aware of customers discussing the differences in their wait times, and this is when we discovered Mark had customers waiting up to two years for jackets.