A Good Question

[Lancealot]

Every young lady I’ve taken out seems to hid their feelings from me… it’s not that most girls I meet want to play games, it’s that they don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. So, they’ll put off telling the guy that they’re not interested because of that. To that I say to all females: TELL US!!! WE CAN TAKE IT! =WR=

Yes we can take it and please have the courtesy to tell us to our faces.

I’m an adult, games and tricks are for kids.

=WR=

Amen

 

["Doc" Devereux]

I went to Britain. British people are chill but somehow very angry.

We are? Oh.

The classic Britisher is somewhat reserved, I'll grant you. But I wouldn't describe myself or any of my acquaintances as "Somehow very angry."

Polite as all get-out though.

Well I suppose that's something.

 

[ArrowCollarMan]

I think its angry as in political. I dunno, I somehow got the impression that the British don't like their government a whole lot. Although most of the anger was directed toward the monarchy. Can't say thats for every brit. But those manners...jeez, why can't people be like that every day? The only rude person I met was some guy at a cheese store...I can't remember the town, somehwere near Oxford I think. Heck, the lady who owned a bed and breakfast I and my family stayed at in Edinburgh let my mom do her laundry...in her own washers and dryers. The same lady also stayed up until 2AM when we arrived and gave us vegan choclate simpsons easter eggs on easter. What the heck!? I've never met anyone that nice out here! I remember when our "Hitler's Revenge" we rented broke down and we got towed from Liverpool to Endinburgh. Why so friendly? Its almost too good to be true!

Yeah...not much to say on girls right now.

 

[VintageJess]

ArrowCollarMan,

Call me simplistic, naive, or hopelessly romantic, but I think you will find that it doesn't have to be so complicated. When the "right" one comes along, you will be surprised by how natural and easy a relationship can be. Everything will fall into place, and it will all make sense--things will be as it should be. And you will look back at this other junk in your past, and see where things were "off." But unfortunately, sometimes it is necessary to endure a bit of the rainy days to appreciate the sun, if you know what I mean. Just chalk it up to lessons learned.

Don't get me wrong--it's not always a picnic, but nothing in life is 100% of the time.

Just some words of encouragement for ya,

Jessica

 

[Lancealot]

Very true Jess.

 

[Siirous]

Arrow,

As that almost 23 year old college guy, I remember being in highschool and knowing exactly what you are talking about with girls liking older guys. Just realize that most 20-something year old guys wouldn't go out with a 16 or 17 year old. That attraction to older guys seems to die out. You said you didn't have a job. You'll find that when you start working out on your own, and associate with other adults that aren't your parents, you'll start to mature and that will build a confidence girls see. I remember after I had worked 3 months at my first job, I wasn't nearly the same person I was before I started.

Plus a little cash to afford a nice dinner never hurt anyone

Good Luck!

Rob

 

[Fred G.]

Absolutely Agree, Jess

Fellows and ladies,

I don't suggest the ways of men and women are appropriate, just that they are.

Certainly, there is immaturity in both sexes, in particular, and the under-20 set that is reading this is probably experiencing that. Beyond that, call it a game if you want to, but what some are perceiving is "playing games" is a lack of understanding. It's a pat answer to the frustration being felt.

You can't "hook up" with everyone you see. Sometimes it's just not the right person, not the right time, whatever. Getting upset does not change that. A full frontal, direct assault doesn't work (several people in this thread gave examples of those, I don't think any included a success).

Seek to understand, follow the clues. No lady wants to put up a billboard as to her true feelings-- turn up your sensitivity. Like Jess points out, when that right person comes into your life, you will know how... if she cares enough she will cut you plenty of slack to learn along the way.

Good luck!

 

[ArrowCollarMan]

I do love slack

 

[Paisley]

I'm no expert in human relations, but I've known a lot of people and seen quite a bit in life. I think I might be able to help cut through some of the confusion I see here.

Women are usually nice when they refuse men. Sometimes they are so nice that men don't realize they've been refused. It isn't a game, it's just a combination of her not being direct enough and him not getting her drift. There are men who can be rejected very eplicitly--in writing--and still not get it.

On the other hand, a faint heart never won the maiden fair. I can think of a few guys who seemed to like me, and I've had gone out with them if they'd tried to get to know me a little more and asked me out.

Women don't usually announce their tender feelings point blank for a simple reason: fear of rejection. Even if the man likes her, it's pretty awkward. There is a natural rhythm to these things, and it shouldn't be rushed.

Young guys do have one advantage, though. Most of them aren't so thick-skinned that social signals bounce right off them. Arrow, I think you are just so young you don't know how to read the subtler ones. The guys in their early 20s I meet at dances seem very attuned to subtle signals. These guys spend some time at dances around older people (like melol ).

Arrow, if you're telling girls that they look sad and they say nothing is wrong, this might not be a game either. (Just tell me you're not going around telling girls to "Smile!" We all hate that.) I used to get this all the time, and usually, nothing was wrong, it's just that I tend not to smile a lot. People were usually just reading me wrong. (Even when I really was sad, I was a private person and didn't want to talk about it.)

 

[Caledonia]

Cal; I find this to be the opposite though (of women getting calmer as they get older), this is when the uh...drive seems to kick into high gear, which seems weird that it's the opposite for guys!

Hi Mystery. Actually my input was getting complicated! Too much to say over and above what I did, so I stopped there. There is definitely a high gear ratio thing that goes on (and don't we know it!). But I think the maturing process is more frenetic in our 20s, partly because both sexes are trying to work out who they are as a person never mind who they are to the opposite sex. It's a minefield. Pheewww and Ho boy, am I glad I've got to the other side!

 

[Caledonia]

Caledonia, i'm impressed by your objective zoological eye on the whole messy business.

Thanks HBK. The more you know about species, the more you see we're all pretty much the same. Downside about being human is - we can reason it all out more - Nasty! Get's you in no end of trouble this reasoning thing. Lizzie made a good point about the way you're raised. If the game playing thing doesn't turn up, you don't learn how to do it, so... straightforward honesty. The way to go.

 

[Caledonia]

And last input you'll all be glad to hear!

How about we sum up the rules? Maybe we can get rich with a "How to" book deal!?

1 Be yourself (despite the peer pressure)
2 No games (they happen, it's life, bear it in mind but don't play)
3 Keep it simple
4 Keep it honest
5 Keep it straightforward.
6 If it causes you angst, move on - he/she isn't for you.

and

7 Think about the future. The moment is so small that when you leave it
behind you'll forget you ever wanted it!

 

[Paisley]

I see two kinds of games being referred to here: signals that some people don't pick up on, and real manipulation.

One example of the first: I was acquainted with a guy who suggested we get together several times (which I never agreed to), gave me his phone number (which I never called), asked me on a date (which I declined), and told me he loved me (which really embarassed me). I then wrote him a note stating I wasn't interested. A few days later, he came up and asked me to dance. I refused. He said to a mutual friend, "She won't talk to me. What did I do?" His version is probably that I led him down the primrose path and then broke his heart.

An example of the second: making someone jealous, girls playing dumb so that they don't intimidate the dude they're after, pouting, moping, manufacturing tears, making idle threats--in other words, being a phony.

 

[mysterygal]

The lady was trying to avoid a blunt let-down in person...

After a couple of calls not-returned, she's obviously not interested. Don't make the lady scream it at you...

You really don't need to be blunt , but telling the truth about how you're feeling, while keeping the other person's feeling's in mind is always the way to go. Unfortunately, most people either make a mess of things by not doing this, or make what would be not an issue at all into one.

 

[mysterygal]

Hi Mystery. Actually my input was getting complicated! Too much to say over and above what I did, so I stopped there. There is definitely a high gear ratio thing that goes on (and don't we know it!). But I think the maturing process is more frenetic in our 20s, partly because both sexes are trying to work out who they are as a person never mind who they are to the opposite sex. It's a minefield. Pheewww and Ho boy, am I glad I've got to the other side!

lol teens to 20's, though I wouldn't mind looking like one forever, I never want to repeat those years either! hey, wasn't there a thread about older women? lol

 

[Paisley]

Last year, a friend had his birthday gathering at Trader Vic's here in town (nice place) and one of my co-workers knows him casually so she showed up. They were chatting for quite awhile and he gave her his number. She, in turn, gave him her work number (a sign?). He called her the next day and left a message. Because there was no returned call, he called her again a couple of days later. Still no call, so he emails (or "electro-posts") me to see if she'd been at work that week. And yes, yes she had been there.

Later on that week, some co-workers went out for drinks (I like drinks) so I went up to the girl and we had the following exchange; keep in mind, all parties are over the age of 30:

"Why didn't you call my friend back?"
"He's really not my type."
"Then why did you give him your number?"
"Because I didn't want to be rude."
"Well, isn't it just as rude not to return his calls? Why not just tell him?"
"Look, I didn't call him back so it should be OBVIOUS I'm not interested."

Stunned silence from me for a few seconds and then...

"Gee, I can't imagine why you're not married by now."

I'm not sure what reason you assign for your coworker being over 30 and single, but I think I see why your friend is in the same boat. Yes, the work phone number should have been his first clue that she wasn't interested. Who gives a work phone number to someone they want to have a long, leisurely, personal talk with? The first unreturned phone call should have been his second clue. And so on.

I'll agree that she shouldn't have given him her phone number, but for her sake, not his. Getting calls from someone you don't want to talk to is a bummer. But having done that, she did right by not returning his calls. There's nothing rude about a woman not calling a man she barely knows and doesn't want to know better. Besides, would your friend really have felt better if this girl had told him she didn't find him very attractive, or smart, or interesting? Since she didn't return his calls, though, he can just assume she's a flake, and it's not for nothing she's over 30 and not married.

 

[mysterygal]

I really don't agree with this. If she wasn't interested. She could of told him so without damaging his pride. Ex. 'I'm really flattered, and thank you for asking me, but, I'm really not wanting to take this any further.' put on a polite smile and leave.

 

[carebear]

I really don't agree with this. If she wasn't interested. She could of told him so without damaging his pride. Ex. 'I'm really flattered, and thank you for asking me, but, I'm really not wanting to take this any further.' put on a polite smile and leave.

mysterygal,

With that technique, you could turn me down anytime.

(not that you would, except for that happily married thing. I'm... kind of a big deal. )

 

[Paisley]

I really don't agree with this. If she wasn't interested. She could of told him so without damaging his pride. Ex. 'I'm really flattered, and thank you for asking me, but, I'm really not wanting to take this any further.' put on a polite smile and leave.

Actually, I'm that's pretty much the point I was trying to make. She could have told him that instead of giving him her number. I tell guys I'm too busy to go out. I very rarely give out my number.

Besides, what if takes her excuse as playing hard to get--one of those games people keep talking about? He'll keep on calling her.

 

[ortega76]

You know, I've dated my fair of cool kittens and crazy chicks before I met and married my wife. In my experience, I often have better luck with girls from a big family, especially if the family is mostly boys. Sure, if/when you meet them there will be an uncomfortable few minutes with her brothers but she's more likely to be fun, open and honest.