Want to buy or sell something? Check the classifieds
  • The Fedora Lounge is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

A Different World

Messages
640
Location
Hollywood, CA
It could be fate, chance, or there could be a reason for everything. In this case, there could be a reason for everyone. How many of you have realized that just as easily as you have been alive, you might never have even existed. Before any of us began “life”, we were in competition, with our own would-be siblings. Obviously, we won. However, suppose you weren’t the faster swimmer. You wouldn’t be reading this right now.

Think about all of the people we have come to know as icons, be they entertainers or history makers. Suppose people like Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Jr., Malcolm X, Muhammad Ali, Marilyn Monroe, George Washington and Jackie Robinson lost that first race. Would their “siblings” have made the same impact? Would these human landmarks have even occurred? Our history books, our sense of culture, and everything that has shaped our understanding of who we are…would have been completely different. For every single individual who has ever lived or died, there could have been someone different in their place.

Inventions that have become staples, like television, microwaves, automobiles and the like would still have been invented, but probably not when they were.

Suppose your father was the fastest swimmer, but your mother was not, or vice versa. They would have married someone else, and the rest of your family tree that would continue from you on, would never take place. Your son or daughter (if you have one now) would never exist, nor would their children or grandchildren.

Suppose Saddam Hussein and George Bush, Sr. never existed, would there have been a Gulf War? Would there have been a Vietnam, or Korean War, World Wars 1 or 2, Korean War, Civil War, Revolutionary War or any other war we’ve had throughout the course of our history? Would there have been Prohibition, Slavery, The Great Depression or a Stock Market Crash if the people involved never lived? People’s ideologies stem from their personality and upbringing, so if a different set of people were in that place in time, those ideals may never have come into play. Harriet Tubman may never have had to guide slaves through the Underground Railroad, there might not have even been an Underground Railroad. September 11th might have had no other significance but being the day that follows September 10th. This would have been a completely different world if our siblings had beat us in that race.

As if that’s not crazy enough, suppose we weren’t conceived at the exact time that we were. If you’re currently 16 years old, had your parents waited 2 more years before bringing you into the world, you’d still have to wait 2 years before you could get a driver’s license, because you’d only be 14. Having said that, you were only conceived at the moment you were because of your parent’s time table, which was a result of their parents’ time table, and their parents’, and all the way back to the beginning. But again, if all of those people had lost, there’d be nobody to reply to this post….if it would have ever been written.
 

Tony in Tarzana

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,276
Location
Baldwin Park California USA
My father was born in 1906 in England, my mother in 1916 in Austria. They both moved to the United States after WWII, Dad was divorced and Mom was a widow. If WWII hadn't happened, they probably would never have come here and never would have met. I owe my existence to WWII, and perhaps to the Little Corporal himself.
 

carebear

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,220
Location
Anchorage, AK
I'm not sure individuals are quite so key in the action of great events. Take slavery or war. They are pretty much ubiquitous across all human cultures dispersed in time and space.

It pushes the model to say such things are universal due to a bunch of disparate individuals somehow simultaneously yet individually coming up with the idea time and time again. Far more likely is that they are somehow natural outgrowths of the nature of "humanity" as opposed to something about any particular "human".
 

carebear

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,220
Location
Anchorage, AK
Diamondback said:
Man, that is just creepy to think about. Didn't Bradbury write one with a premise about changing one little thing somewhere in the past, A Sound of Thunder or something like that?

Stepping on a butterfly in the Jurassic on a hunting trip.
 
Thought that was it, but the similarity of premise is the point. Thanks for the backup, Marine!

OTOH, some things have had to happen. Let's say we could give ol' Adolf a "retroactive abortion"--then we'd have Stalin to deal with, and much sooner. WWII would've still happened, only without as much to stand between the megalomaniac in Moscow and the Free World. Hitler and "Uncle Joe" *snort* getting played off each other bled both of manpower resources, and thus bought the West time to dig in for the long and necessary Cold War.
 

happyfilmluvguy

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,541
This reminds me of the plot behind the Terminator films as well as The Time Machine. The event will still occur even when someone tried to change it or stop it from happening. Perhaps had a particular person not won that race, someone else would have taken their place.

I have to agree with carebear. Individuals wouldn't necessarily be a key in an event. Human beings just have a tendancy to disagree with each other, just as they agree. You can't change instinct.
 

scotrace

Head Bartender
Staff member
Messages
14,393
Location
Small Town Ohio, USA
One spooked horse.
One runaway cart.
One child named Adolph in the path.

World changed utterly, completely.

That sort of thing is happening every day. People are added to or removed from the scene who would have, or do, make all the difference.

Then there's Quantum Theory: There are parallel universes for each possible outcome. In one or more of them, WWII never happened, the South won the American Civil War, Henry VIII had several healthy sons, etc.
 

staggerwing

One of the Regulars
Messages
284
Location
Washington DC
Dang! I never thought of it like that before. Got to be about the only race I ever won! Then again, I guess only half of me won it...naw, I think I got there first by outsmarting my millions of would-be siblings.
 

LizzieMaine

Bartender
Messages
33,825
Location
Where The Tourists Meet The Sea
I often think about this, actually. I had an older brother, born almost exactly a year before me, who died when he was two days old. If he'd lived, it's likely I never would have been born -- and I've often wondered what sort of life he'd have had compared to the one I've had...
 

carebear

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,220
Location
Anchorage, AK
LizzieMaine said:
I often think about this, actually. I had an older brother, born almost exactly a year before me, who died when he was two days old. If he'd lived, it's likely I never would have been born -- and I've often wondered what sort of life he'd have had compared to the one I've had...

I'd rather have the you we know than some other guy around, that's for sure. :D
 

dhermann1

I'll Lock Up
Messages
9,154
Location
Da Bronx, NY, USA
My great grandmother had someone she was very fond of in 1861. We have a little stack of letters from him she saved. He died of "bilous fever" (hepatitis) in 1862. She would have been a Jones instead of a Dithridge. But the same can be said of anybody's ancestry. It's a wonderful thing to muse upon, but in the end, here we are.
As regards Adolf: the German army was making plans to rearm and presumably resume the war within months of Versailles. Given the conditions in Germany at that time, if one lunatic hadn't taken control, another one would have. I wouldn't call myself a determinist, but maybe something close to it.
As an old friend of mine often says, "If something is going to happen, it probably will."
 

Rosie

One Too Many
Messages
1,827
Location
Bed Stuy, Brooklyn, NY
But, certain things are supposed to happen. At least I think so. My parents were supposed to meet at a wedding.

I was supposed to be alive now doing what I'm doing now.

I often think, what if I had gotten married years before? What if I had stayed in Boston or Italy but, I wasn't supposed to do those things. [huh]

That's the way I see it at least.
 

Rosie

One Too Many
Messages
1,827
Location
Bed Stuy, Brooklyn, NY
Well, there is free will of course. But, at least in my belief, when one goes against what is "supposed" to happen, your life goes off track, things don't go well. So, of course you can chose to not do certain things or chose to do certain things but the end result won't be a happy (or at least content) one.
 
Plus, like I said earlier, the effect of taking out barriers would destabilize things elsewhere. No matter what, jackboots woulda been headed west across Europe in the '30s-'50s timeframe, the only question is would they be those of the Wehrmacht or the Red Army?

If you take out Hitler, you'd have to take out Stalin too, and even then there's a chance some new player would take the same role...
 

carebear

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,220
Location
Anchorage, AK
Story said:
Ah, Free Will vs. Pre-Determination - where's Pastor Dean? :D

SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY

The National Cathedral is proud to present Jacob Arminius vs. John Calvin in a no-holds barred sanctuary cage match.

John says the outcome is pre-determined but Jacob has a mind of his own..... :D
 

Forum statistics

Threads
109,645
Messages
3,085,627
Members
54,471
Latest member
rakib
Top