30's Gentlemen's Etiquette

[scotrace]

Tipping your hat doesn't mean removing it. Just touch the brim.

 

[fluteplayer07]

IMO if she is more then a friend, the guy should pay. I personally don't care if she is more "well off" then I am, or whatever excuse some guys throw up. If your taking her out to dinner it's your treat. If you can't afford to take her to dinner do something else, or make a meal at home for her. If your more connected to a few dollars then you are her, you don't deserve to be with her.

I don't buy into the whole let's be equal stuff when it comes to dating. If your taking her out for a night on the town, do it on your own dime. You don't ask a woman out then expert her to pick up the tab.

We've known each other for a few years, and while we're good friends, we're not much more. But I don't want to be a putz, invite her out to lunch, and then mess up etiquette. The way I have been told, a courteous man pays for the lady no matter what the weight of the friendship is. I was just wondering if this matches up with what vintage etiquette advises; but I never recall reading any advice one way or another.

 

[Tiller]

We've known each other for a few years, and while we're good friends, we're not much more. But I don't want to be a putz, invite her out to lunch, and then mess up etiquette. The way I have been told, a courteous man pays for the lady no matter what the weight of the friendship is. I was just wondering if this matches up with what vintage etiquette advises; but I never recall reading any advice one way or another.

In my own life the only time I've gone "dutch" is when I'm with one of my guy friends. The only people who have ever bought me a meal when I'm at a restaurant is my Father, Mother, and Grandparents, and that is because they aren't/weren't afraid to make a scene. lol Anytime I take a woman out for a night on the town, whether we are just friends or out on a date I pick up the tab. She may buy me a beer/cocktail, but I pay for most things. I'm not sure if this is vintage or not though.

Now if I'm just out with some friends, we all tend to pay our own way, don't get me wrong. I don't feel obligated to pay for every girl that decides to go bowling if their is a group of us. If it's one on one though, and if I'm the one who asked a certain lady friend if she would accompany me for the night I pay most of the bills.

Another time I do pay all the bills is when one of my friends is the DD. All the soda/chicken wings they want is on me. lol

Is it vintage etiquette? I'm not sure, but I know it works for me.

 

[Tomasso]

If I invite a person to share a meal, male or female, I pay.

 

[rue]

I was always taught that the one that does the asking is the one that does the paying in the case of two couples, two male friends or two female friends. As far as a man and a woman (friend or romantic interest) the man is expected to pay, but this comes from my grandfather born in 1908. I agree with it, but I know some don't.

 

[Tiller]

If I invite a person to share a meal, male or female, I pay.

That's interesting. It just doesn't seem to happen with my guy friends. Just today my cousin asked if I wanted to join him on his lunch break (where he got to complain about working on Sunday ) at a local diner, but it was almost understood that we would split the bill. It's always been that way with my guy friends. I've never really sat down and thought about it before though, I wonder why it is that way?

 

[Pompidou]

I like the rule, "Whoever invites, pays." I like saying, "Let's go out to eat Friday night. Don't worry. It's on me." I dislike the rule, "The guy pays, no matter what." I wouldn't like hearing, "Let's go out to eat Friday night. I'm not worried. It's on you." If I were a woman and I believed the latter were the case, I'd never invite a guy out. The idea of doing the asking and expecting the compensation doesn't sit right. I've often joked that the value I bring to a relationship is probably in my wallet, but I never actually mean it.

 

[rue]

I don't ask men out. Never have [huh]
I think it's a generational thing?

 

[Yeps]

I don't ask men out. Never have [huh]
I think it's a generational thing?

Yes, very. It is definitely an innovation of my generation (which includes those a bit older than me as well). I do not see any problem with it. Personally, if a girl is interested in me, it is probably in her best interest to make it known, because I am notoriously cautious and may never actually get around to making a move.

I think that M. Pompidou has the right idea with "whoever invites pays." That is the rule I have heard before, and I think it makes pretty good sense.

 

[sheeplady]

I have always split the bill with friends male or female (I'm a female). Occasionally I will treat a female friend. I always treat anyone I stay with to a dinner.

When I dated, I always offered to pay my half on the first date. The man get's extra points if he insists on paying, which I have had some men not do. (By insists, it normally goes down like this: man goes to pay, I offer to pay half, and he says he prefers paying. I thank him and say I would like to pay for the second date if we got out, if things had gone well so far).

Later in my dating relationship with my husband he would pay the bill and I left the tip in cash.

 

[Tiller]

I don't ask men out. Never have [huh]
I think it's a generational thing?

It's not that popular around here from what I've seen anyways. I know women who will show interest in a guy, but they expect them to make the first move. To see if they "man up" as it were .

I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with a guy friend buying me dinner. I don't know why exactly though. Maybe it's one of those alpha-beta things that runs threw us males subconsciously. Maybe it's just how I was raised? I'm not sure. It's probably how my Father feels when I try to pay for a meal, "What you don't think I can pay my fair share or something?".

 

[fluteplayer07]

Thanks for all of the advice, guys. I didn't actually intend for this to become a 'Help Fluteplayer With Dating' thread, not out of arrogance--quite to the contrary in fact-- but so that I don't clutter up the archives with my personal life. More for me to double check my conceptions with any that existed during the Golden Era. I really do appreciate all the help, though, and the many interesting theories presented, too. Keep up the good speculation!

Cheers,

 

[Tiller]

I am interested in what the general "vintage advice" would be though.

 

[Marla]

I remember reading (perhaps in this book) that through the thirties men were expected to do the asking and the paying. They earned more than their dates, and could afford to pay the tab, while the working girls were just barely making enough to get by. So the wage inequality created a real dating inequality too. Just one example of this is the 1937 movie Stage Door in which the girls who are struggling to "make it big" on Broadway often accept dates with men they dislike (more like loath) just to get a good meal. It seems that if a girl wanted to go out to a movie, dance, dinner, etc. she had to accept a date, because she herself rarely had the funds to go stag (or much less to invite a guy).

The men would do the asking and the paying, but their female dates were socially and implicitly expected to compensate for the money spent on them in other ways...

 

[John in Covina]

The men would do the asking and the paying, but their female dates were socially and implicitly expected to compensate for the money spent on them in other ways...

The concept of dating with dining out and a movie or similar entertaining event does not always mean the quid pro quo is in effect. There is a dynamic that by paying for the evening a man tries to show he would be a good provider and the entertainment portion allows for getting to know each other for compatibility reasons. While there is always a portion of men on the make there will always be a portion that have a finer sense of courting over friends with benefits type attitude.

 

[Marla]

Let's not deny that the fact that women earned less and faced a social stigma against going out stag, did not work in the favor of the men who could not get dates otherwise. It's a power thing, and unfortunately having money gives one power over those who are desperate for what it can buy.

 

[MikeBravo]

On an unrelated note, all of the sources I've read about hat etiquette proscribe that one is to doff his hat to passing women, elderly, friends, ones you bump into, etc. How did a person handle this during the Golden Era? Especially in downtown, where there are so many people to tip one's hat to, that it would spend more time off one's head than on!

Cheers,

There is an interesting thread on just this topic, here: Putting-on-and-Taking-off-your-Fedora

 

[Pompidou]

The social stigma against going out stag persists to this very day. One of the rare moments I feel self conscious is when I dine alone or go to the movies alone. In a twist on the situation Maria mentioned, it's usually me running down my friend list till somebody isn't busy. I pay because it's my idea, but the whole, "I really want to do X, but can't because there's nobody to go with" applies to me as much as ever.

 

[BettyMaraschino]

I usually offer my hand because it irritates me when a handshake is assumed between and not with me - and worse, when the men shake hands with each other but try to kiss me.

This annoys me no end. I work in bridal and bridesmaids so at trade shows or Designer days your always expected to do the whole kiss thing. The problem is that everyone is from different parts of the world where the kisses can range from 1 to 4. Plus I don't like getting that close. I will happily offer my hand for a handshake, but I don't like the kissing one bit. *shudder* strange men and women you've never met before (possibly met once before) kissing your cheek for me feels weird and uncomfortable.

 

[Atterton]

I´m not someone to follow etiquette, but when it comes to paying for meals, I´d also go with whoever did the inviting pays for the night. Then again, I´ve only had a girl ask me out once, and I think I paid for that too.