1930s Motorcycle Jacket - Spanish/French??

[Baron Kurtz]

Thanks Mud, i thought you might have seen something like this before. the badly matched panels always spoke to me of production under a period of stress - taking what they could get at the workshop.

I have found my insignia website again, and will find the pages relaing to this device.

bk

 

[Baron Kurtz]

My research since i received the jacket has got me here. This is the insignia, undated, of a French Moniteur de Conduite Automobile, (FRAC). (Monitor of Driving of a car, (FRAC)). Note the cogwheel and the 3 spoked "steering" wheel. So, obviously the device on the lapel of my jacket does not bear the word Moniteur, or any of the assorted little badges, so it probably is not the jacket of a driving instructor. But i think the idea that it is a jacket for a driver of something, and that it is French, is pretty well established.

My next site of exploration is the British library where they have some excellent French uniform books.

bk

 

[BellyTank]

Lighning- onom...onamata...onomona

The Danish word for zip, is "Lynlås" "Lyn"=Lightning, "lås"=lock/fastener.

This use of "lightning" in zipper-speak, seems a fairly universally used
quasi-onomatopoeic device.

The German, however, Reissverschluss(?), is more of a tear-ing sound.


B
T

 

[Guttersnipe]

Leather jackets were VERY commonly worn by both sides in the Spanish Civil War. That insignia/collar tab doesn't ring a bell with me as being pre-war, popular army, or nationalist.

I know I've seen collar tabs reputed to be post-war Spanish army that were very similar, though.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I've seen the red diamond shaped collar tabs on quite a few European uniforms. I think the only thing that will point us at a specific country is the device on the tabs.

bk

 

[Tomasso]

I recall seeing a similar piece at the Hermès Museum in Paris. Their initial foray into clothing was a line of leather wear for motoring; a century ago.

 

[H.Johnson]

Spanish Lightning

Baron,

A recent Lounger's query has caused me to re-read the section of 'Talon Inc: a Romance of Achievement' that relates to the relationshionship between Talon and Lightning (owned by Kynoch), after the latter acquired the manufacturing rights to G. Sundback's patented developments, which he owned 'in the Western Hemisphere outside the USA [which Talon owned]. The period being refered to is 1925 and I quote:
'Kynoch had harvested for itself all the fruits of Sundback's distinguished talents and was able to nourish his enterprises on them fully outside the Western Hemisphere. New projects were presently to take the English Company [i.e. Lightning] into Germany, Spain and Australia (there was already a branch in France)'.
Page 76-77. My italics and emphasis.

So - a Spanish Lightning operation in the 1920s. Possibly where your zip comes from, but - why a Spanish zip on a French jacket, when there was already a French operation?

Let the investigations continue...

<More - added later. Ibid. page 99, I quote:
'The third step towards the creation of a broad community of zipper interests came with the absorption in December 1948 of the Mexican company which had been a subsidiary of Lightning of Canada. Talon acquired the entire interest of Lightning in the Compania Relampago for $50,000'.
My italics. So, that doesn't relate to Spain, but it indicates that 'Relampago' is the Spanish trade name for 'Lightning' and could have been used for the Spanish operation refered to above.

 

[Tomasso]

The Zip...

My grandfather," says Jérôme Guerrand, the chairman of the Hermès supervisory board and a cousin of Jean-Louis Dumas's, "during the war was sent as an officer to the States, and he met [Henry] Ford. At that time it was the best example for factories in the world. And in Canada he found a kind of zip, for the [canvas] roof of the cars. He thought it was something he could use in France—to make other things."

Perhaps only a man named for the Greek god of swiftness would perceive the future in this quicksilver device. Émile-Maurice returned to Paris with a two-year European patent on the zipper. He saw Hermès zooming into the age of the automobile, which would no doubt require leather accessories. The zipper opened and closed in a flash, a perfect mechanism with which to secure a purse or jacket against high speeds. The "Hermès Fastener," as it was called even after the patent had expired, would revolutionize clothing (made by Hermès, the first-ever leather jacket with a zip was worn by the Duke of Windsor), and the Hermès workrooms became so expert in its manipulation that other companies, including Coco Chanel's, came to learn from them.

 

[BellyTank]

...the first-ever leather jacket with a zip was worn by the Duke of Windsor...

Do we know roughly when this was?


B
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[BellyTank]

H.Johnson-

- well done, indeed.
You just about answered all the international zipper history.

Excellent.

A while back, I posted a pic of a Kreigsmarine jersey with a very Talon looking zipper- maybe the German connection- so perhaps now, we have seen examples of Talon/Lightning from France, Mexico/Spain, Germany... we definitely have Australia. We probably still have images of all of these in the various zipper-mentioning threads.


B
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[Tomasso]

Do we know roughly when this was?

Around 1918.

 

[H.Johnson]

Excellent! See the Baron's '1940s Canadian Jacket' thread for an observation on early French zip manufacture.

 

[BigHairyFinn]

This use of "lightning" in zipper-speak, seems a fairly universally used quasi-onomatopoeic device.

In Finnish its vetoketju i.e. pull-chain probably translated from the Swedish dragkedja, whereas they also use blixtlås i.e. lightning-lock as well, Norwegians say glidelås... beloved child got many names