1930s belted back leisure/sporty suit jacket top found

[Red Leader]

Hey guys,

I know this is not a 'leisure' suit top, but I don't really know what else to call it.

Very similar to the 2 jackets found on the 4th scan of the 35/36 Wards catalog in post #1:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...-35-42&highlight=1935-1942+catalog+suit+scans


or to the 'cossack' outfit depicted in the catalog here on post #4:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...ns-1936-National-Bellas-Hess-Menswear-Catalog


Sorry for the bad pictures...from my cell phone. When I first saw it and examined it, I thought, could this be an alteration? Perhaps the last 1930s/40s jacket I found (that was altered) was fresh in my memory. All the stitching on this jacket looks virgin. I did some digging inside and found a faint tag with a specific day and month from 1937. Seller/store had it listed as 1950s, probably thought it was a collegiate jacket. It is in really good condition, save for a small moth hole in the front of the jacket on the right side, visible in the first picture.

I didn't get to try it on, but next time I stop by, if it is there, I will. It looked to be on the smaller side of things, somewhere around a 35-38R. If it fits me I might just pick it up. If it doesn't, I'd be willing to snag it for an interested party.

What are your thoughts on this jacket? I've not seen one like it.

Also, stopped by another place today that had all sorts of fun stuff. Very nice 1930s-1940s DB suit in a beautiful fabric, 2 moth holes repaired on the pants but likely to be hidden by the coat. NRA labeled tux top. Tux suit dated 1938. Another tux suit with a 1936 ACWA union label, 1941 dated over coat, really all kinds of fun stuff. They also had a true, genuine jazz suit coat. It was in sorry shape, with the lining being nearly destroyed, a moth hole on the arm and the 3 tight buttons missing, but still it was cool to see. Possibly easily repaired. I was tempted for none other than the rarity of it holding a key place in a collection, sort of like a 'filler' coin might fill the spot in a coin collection until a better one comes along

Thanks!

 

[Two Types]

The collar looks oddly shaped, as if it had been altered. It's odd looking, but distinctive.

Sounds like a good shop. Keep going there. What price was the jacket from the jazz suit? If it's cheap. but it. I'm sure someone will want it.

 

[GBR]

Is it female?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Looks like a jacket of a Western suit. Certainly men's.

 

[dhermann1]

From some of the catalog images I've seen posted here, I think there were a lot of interesting and different styles of casual jackets created in the 30s. Looks very nice to me.

 

[Red Leader]

Thanks fellas. The jazz suit jacket wasn't cheap. I think $125. For me, it seemed rich for the condition it was in. They also had a suit top from an earlier outfit as well, I think 1900-1915 or so. I know so little about that timeframe, but that's what I would guess from old images I've seen.

Regarding the pictured jacket top, that is what I thought as well - must be altered. I checked it, mainly around the collar - looked real good underneath. In my limited opinion, I don't think it was. Also, would probably look a bit better all the way zipped up.

Have there been other sightings of these jackets at all? I'm trying to take a guess as to the rarity of such an item. I've certainly never seen one before, but then again I'm less than 2 years into this stuff.

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

Ditto on the western jacket. Looks like a H bar C model I have seen.

 

[Two Types]

I would think it relatively rare. I'm no expert on American fashions but that's the first example of that style that I've seen posted on the FL since I joined.

 

[reetpleat]

It kind of looks to me like a suit jacket that has been altered extensively. The bottom "skirt portion is very short, the breast pocket with the rest of it casual seems out of place, and the collar seems much too small for a jacket of the era, as if they did not have much to work with. On top of that, the stitching and zipper install seem not as well done as I would expect from the era. It does not look quite like the western styles, but I can see why people lean in that direction. I of course, could be way off. Cool, but I would want more of a spread pointed collar or I would probably never wear it. It does not have a lot of distinctively vintage look to it except the belted back.

The other thing is , if you look at the back, it would seem unusual to have a belted back that gathered, although it could be a woman's. The front seems to maybe have allowance for breasts with the darts below, but the breast pocket would not be so likely to be there if it were a woman's jacket. Also, this seems more constructed, like a suit jacket, rather then the simple panels that usually make up a casual jacket.

Way to keep your eye peeled though. And nice of you to offer to buy if someone else is interested.

 

[reetpleat]

During the war, there were a lot of articles on how to repurpose old men's clothing for women's clothing. The war effort and all that. This seems like it might be an example of that. The brest pocket is what really says suit jacket. Is it structured and lined on the inside front?

 

[Red Leader]

Interesting thoughts all around. To be honest, it could have very well been altered and nobody would really know for sure. I did spend some time looking at the zipper since I thought it odd, and the stitching did look clean and original. It is tucked away in a mostly-women's shop, so I doubt it is going anywhere. Next time I'm in I'll stop by and if it is still there I'll try and get some more detailed pictures of it.

I'll check the front inside as well.

Thanks!

 

[herringbonekid]

i agree with Reetpleat; looks like a home modification (bastardisation more like) of a suit jacket.

 

[reetpleat]

The other thing is I have never seen, on a vintage jacket, seams and lines as poor as these ones. They are not terrible, but look either home made, or from the 60s and on, when poor construction was more the norm.

 

[Red Leader]

I went back to have a much more detailed look at the jacket and scrutinized the stitching. It's been butchered. Which is a shame because it fit me great and I would have loved to have picked up a nice 1937 belted back jacket.

I did stop by another store and grabbed some photos of some of the other fun stuff...the NRA tux jacket, 1936 suit, 1938 dated jacket and the jazz suit. The jazz suit outer jacket was actually in remarkably good condition except for a nasty 1/4 moth hole in one of the lapels. No real 'wear' that I could see. The inside is where all the wear was.

The NRA tux jacket actually fit me pretty well and had a nice profile when worn. Actually most of that stuff fit me pretty well. Is it pretty easy to match black garbadine tux jackets to pants? Or would white pants be appropriate in that scenario?

 

[Two Types]

I mix and match dinner suit jacket and trousers. As long as they are roughly the same shade and are the same weight of cloth, it should be ok. Remember, theses are normally worn in subdued light. Who is going to tell the difference?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

^^ We'd love to see the pictures of the jazz suit, I think.

 

[Two Types]

God yes!

 

[Red Leader]

Haha, no prob. I'll get pics up soon. The Jazz suit coat is sans pants, unfortunately. Still, an interesting find.

 

[Red Leader]

As requested! Here is a picture of the jazz suit jacket!

That tiny little white dot on the right lapel (left in picture) is the moth hole - bout 3/16ths big. Other than that, the outside is in tip top shape. The inside has the lining torn up (that grayish piece is foam from the hangar) and is missing the 3 buttons. With an expert repair on the lapel (the weave is super tight, so it would probably repair well), replacement of the buttons and liner, it could work. But at a price of $130 as is, I'm not sure I could jump on it. Wish it had the pants.

I have a bunch of other fun stuff to show...

I don't know of a date on this one...1910-1920? I'm terrible with dating this stuff. This one was pretty solid, but did show wear throughout.



1938 hand-dated DB 4x2 suit jacket:

Had a bit of pressing wear on the high spots. Showed its age.



Hmmmm....

No date on this one...

 

[Red Leader]

This one fit me to a 'T':

NRA label tux suit jacket. Great shoulders on that one! Sadly no pants. I'm betting I could find a near matching pair of pants though! I didn't even think to look through the pants!


Okay, I'm going to need some help on these last two. Check 'em out:

This one was in the same shop as the butchered belted-back. This one is pretty cool! I can't remember what they thought the date was on it. Looking through the '1920s suits', this one has a lot of similarities, like the length of the coat, the split in the back, the Norfolk style...maybe late 1920s/early 1930s? What say you? It had no tag and no label.

Also, take note of the inside middle lining seam. The fabric had these 'tabs' ever 10 inches or so. It was almost like someone cut the excess lining, except for these little tabs. However, the lining didn't look hacked. Has anyone seen this before?


Then finally, this one:

This is a SUPER cool suit with a GREAT fabric:

I'm trying to place the date on it. I don't recall it having a Union tag. I didn't take pictures of the inside of it, but it had your standard black tag/white lettering...which to me said 1930s. I'm hopeful that the lapels will speak to the experts here. They appear to me to be a little more short and aggressive. Also note the space in between the collar and the peak. The upper lapel cut line seemed to be a little bit more parallel to the ground, versus pointing more up in the air.

I'd really appreciate any of your thoughts on the date of this suit. The pants had two poorly repaired holes just behind one of the side pockets. Pretty visible when the jacket is off, but most likely hidden when the jacket is one. I'm really tempted by this one. Price is good, too.