1930s belted back leisure/sporty suit jacket top found

[reetpleat]

The jazz suit is more likely a woman's 40s suit jacket. If the price is good, snap up the belted vented back jccket and suit. They are both quite great. Good eye.

 

[Two Types]

Where is this shop??? It looks to have some good stuff. I agree with Reetpleat about the jazz suit.

The Norfolk jacket could be interesting if it is an old one. What prices does the shop charge for suits & jackets etc?

 

[Two Types]

I just noticed: the price tag on the Norfolk jacket appears to say $38. That would be a very good price if the jacket has any real age (which is difficult to tell from the photo). If it is 1920s, and that really is the price, buy it - I'm sure you'll find a good home for it. What size is it?

 

[herringbonekid]

Red Leader, as already noted the 'jazz suit' is a woman's; you can tell because it fastens R over L rather than L over R.

the norfolk jacket looks interesting but hard to date from the photos. if you can get a shot of the label it would help.

the 'Oviatt's' label jacket; you should contact Marc Chevalier here: https: //www.facebook.com/AskVintageMenswearExpert

... as he's an avid collector of Oviatt's garments.

 

[Red Leader]

Hey everyone,

Really appreciate your insights and comments.

Regarding the Norfolk jacket - there was no label, so I don't have much to go on. The inside did have some kind of a very thin quilt pattern lining. I saw no tags. It fit pretty good. Had some wear here and there. The pictures are terrible - my phone doesn't do nearly a good enough job.

Regarding the last suit - any idea on the age? It is obviously 1930s/1940s, but I'd love to narrow it down further. Would measuring the pant cuff width help?

HBK - pm me and we can discuss the location of the shop. I ran out of space on my phone. They actually have a bunch of other stuff, but those are the highlights. they probably had 5+ 1940s tuxedo suits and at least 10+ 1940s tuxedo jackets that I didn't photograph. Another 1940s suit, with a bad tear in the knee, and a few other vintage suit jackets.

Regarding the assessment of the 'jazz suit' in question I may be turning the world on its ear here, but I will respectfully disagree with the experts. I cannot give insight into the reverse buttoning, but I would be very, very hard pressed to believe that the jacket is from the 1940s, or that it is a woman's jacket. The picture, is terrible. It also makes the jacket look much shorter than it is...it was taken at a very high angle down. It was several inches longer than your standard 1940s-present men's suit jacket. Also, the back of the jacket (not-pictured) looks exactly like some of the pictures of 1920's suits here. Also the extreme slanted breast pocket. The cut of the jacket mirrors no women's outfit that I have seen, either in person or in photos. Again, I cannot explain the buttoning, but I do not believe it is a women's jacket or that is it from the 1940s. If any of you have some pictures/examples of women's coats that you are thinking of when you think that this could be a women's jacket, I'd love to see them, since I am not well versed in vintage women's clothing.

I have a good excuse to bring my camera to a meeting soon where I will be once again passing by the shop. I will take high resolution, detailed photographs and that will provide a much more detailed account of the jacket. If it turns out that it really is a woman's jacket, or that it is from the 1940s, I will eat my words! This is a constant learning process!

Thanks all for your continued thoughts, feedback, and expertise.

 

[herringbonekid]

HBK - pm me and we can discuss the location of the shop.

that was Two Types asking about the location not me. as he lives in the UK i'm sure it's just curiosity.

 

[Red Leader]

Oh whoops! My apologies

 

[Fastuni]

Regarding the date of the blue striped double-breasted suit: Mid-40's to early 50's. Note the placement of the buttons considerably below the pocket-line. I say 1945-1950.

The "jazz jacket" is a woman's jacket (whatever the age) - but for a woman without the slightest doubt.
I'd pretty much rule out that a man's jacket would button on the "female side".

It could well be a 1920's "Jazz suit" jacket in "male style" for a woman... maybe part of a stage/show outfit.

 

[splintercellsz]

That 1910's one is awesome! Wish I could come across stuff like that where I live!

 

[Two Types]

Yes, just a curiosity .... but worth knowing just in case I find myself in Colorado sometime.

 

[reetpleat]

Looking more closely, I think I was wrong. It is not a woman's suit jacket. I believe it is a 20s or 30s maybe men's suit coat that has been converted to a women's coat. Possibly by the same person who did the jacket. The fabric and collar do look older. The back seam you can see seems home made. Not lined as it would normally be. But of course, we can't be sure.

 

[Red Leader]

There may be something funky going on with the buttons/buttonholes on this one - it was missing all 3 buttons.

I will definitely get back there and get some much better pictures - the ones I took were terrible! There was a lining inside, but it was destroyed/falling off. I didn't mess with it too much, so I'm not sure how much is left. I'll also look around for a tag.

I will also try it on (if it fits) and get a picture so that folks who know these jackets a lot better than be can make an assessment of its cut.

 

[Fletch]

From some of the catalog images I've seen posted here, I think there were a lot of interesting and different styles of casual jackets created in the 30s. Looks very nice to me.

I've said it before, but for that to happen, skilled labor has to be cheap. We probably won't see such an era again.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Well, highly skilled tailoring labour is extremely cheap - in Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka. It's not labour costs that drive the quality down. It's the reduced cost of shoddy fabrics, bad thread, bad design etc. etc. The labourers will make whatever they're told to, and would make a perfect vintage-style mass market jacket if told to, with good fabrics, good shoulder pads, thread, design, etc.

But the profit on such a garment - the factor that has absolutely no bearing on the life or opportunities of the labourer - would be too low, and the price would be considered too high. As consumers, we need to get real about the costs of producing higher quality garments (there's a reason bespoke tailoring costs so much!), and stop demanding clothing at penny prices then whining about quality.

 

[herringbonekid]

this discussion should be happening in the fabrics or vintage tailoring thread, but it seems the main gripe today is that the quality that was once affordable (but not low) back in the 30s is now called 'luxury' by labels such as Ralph Lauren's 'Purple'; emphasis on quality of materials, amount of hand finishing etc... and priced out of the reach of those on an average income.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Of course. The driving factor for holding the prices low and quality high back then was the fact that essentially all working age men (outside manual labour, at least) had to dress a certain way. Lower end producers (Sears etc.) were making suits that at a distance might appear to be of quality, as understood then, but didn't quite cut the mustard when viewed close-up. This is no longer the case.

Obviously, we're talking relative quality here. The stuff selling at even the lowest price point back then is higher quality than what we will have to pay hundreds of dollars for today.

 

[herringbonekid]

the most expensive suit made by Burtons today is £175 (i just had a look on their site).
suppose that tomorrow they decided to make their suits exactly to the quality of a 1935 Burtons suit, including all fabric, internal construction, non-fused canvas etc.
i wonder how much that suit would go for compared to the £175 suit ?


p.s. given Burton's history it's almost unbelievable they haven't jumped on the 'heritage' bandwagon right now and brought out a '1940s' limited edition range or something like that.
what a lack of imagination !

 

[Qirrel]

i wonder how much that suit would go for compared to the £175 suit ?

Double or triple, perhaps? Assuming that they wouldn't have to pay for new production facilities, education of the workforce etc.

 

[herringbonekid]

Double or triple, perhaps?

i was thinking the same. or maybe a tad more... about £650.
anyway, the point is that it could be done, if only a company like Burtons had the will to do it.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Well, to me it looks like the "heritage" trend mainly goes with the "workwear" crowd?

Do you see a real market? Most suit people of the interwebs seem to talk a lot about Apparel Arts images and then wear something completely different. :eusa_doh: