1900’s Vibe Hat Choices? Help me Out!

[Jeff B.]

Hey folks, I’ve been reading and lurking here for a while, but figured it was time to throw a question out there. I apologize if I ramble on but I want to make my intentions clear and hopefully get some advice in return.

I am looking into purchasing either a new Open Road or a Campdraft, but am totally open to other options. Please educate me! I don’t want a fedora with the typical large ribbon and diamond crease and at the same time I don’t want a big modern western hat with a large, intrusive brim. That being said these particular models mentioned above appeal to me. I don’t mind the cattleman crease on the OR, but like the endless possibilities available with the open crown of the CD.
In terms of style, I find myself gravitating towards what one may find a farmer, surveyor, guide, or outdoorsman sporting in the early 1900’s, or maybe even into the 20’s. Think Daniel Plainview in “There Will Be Blood”. It doesn’t have to be that hat exactly, but it indicates towards where I am looking. A hat perhaps on the smaller side, in a brown or fawn, with hints of western or even campaign styling, just scaled down.
Again, not a fedora or modern western hat.

I live rurally and plan on wearing the hat hiking, fishing, doing chores, running into town and during just about any other outdoor activity possible in the Canadian elements. I am a good caretaker, but this hat isn’t going to be babied either. In fact, I welcome a bit of “patina” that comes naturally with use.

Here’s a couple pics from the era I’m interested in. Am I barking up the wrong tree with the OR or CD?

Feel free to throw questions back at me if you wish.
- Jeff

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Hey folks, I’ve been reading and lurking here for a while, but figured it was time to throw a question out there. I apologize if I ramble on but I want to make my intentions clear and hopefully get some advice in return.

I am looking into purchasing either a new Open Road or a Campdraft, but am totally open to other options. Please educate me! I don’t want a fedora with the typical large ribbon and diamond crease and at the same time I don’t want a big modern western hat with a large, intrusive brim. That being said these particular models mentioned above appeal to me. I don’t mind the cattleman crease on the OR, but like the endless possibilities available with the open crown of the CD.
In terms of style, I find myself gravitating towards what one may find a farmer, surveyor, guide, or outdoorsman sporting in the early 1900’s, or maybe even into the 20’s. Think Daniel Plainview in “There Will Be Blood”. It doesn’t have to be that hat exactly, but it indicates towards where I am looking. A hat perhaps on the smaller side, in a brown or fawn, with hints of western or even campaign styling, just scaled down.
Again, not a fedora or modern western hat.

I live rurally and plan on wearing the hat hiking, fishing, doing chores, running into town and during just about any other outdoor activity possible in the Canadian elements. I am a good caretaker, but this hat isn’t going to be babied either. In fact, I welcome a bit of “patina” that comes naturally with use.

Here’s a couple pics from the era I’m interested in. Am I barking up the wrong tree with the OR or CD?

Feel free to throw questions back at me if you wish.
- Jeff

Welcome!

The first thing I would do is to go through photos here and elsewhere on the internet and find clear photos of the style(s) you’re interested in. Narrow it down and find detailed photos if possible. It’s like the old saying that a problem clearly defined is half solved. I’d start off looking at the pre-1940s hat threads here.

The Campdraft and the current Open Road both share the same problem for me: the crowns are too low. A low crown really limits the styles of creases the hat can manage.

Good luck.

 

[belfastboy]

Hey folks, I’ve been reading and lurking here for a while, but figured it was time to throw a question out there. I apologize if I ramble on but I want to make my intentions clear and hopefully get some advice in return.

I am looking into purchasing either a new Open Road or a Campdraft, but am totally open to other options. Please educate me! I don’t want a fedora with the typical large ribbon and diamond crease and at the same time I don’t want a big modern western hat with a large, intrusive brim. That being said these particular models mentioned above appeal to me. I don’t mind the cattleman crease on the OR, but like the endless possibilities available with the open crown of the CD.
In terms of style, I find myself gravitating towards what one may find a farmer, surveyor, guide, or outdoorsman sporting in the early 1900’s, or maybe even into the 20’s. Think Daniel Plainview in “There Will Be Blood”. It doesn’t have to be that hat exactly, but it indicates towards where I am looking. A hat perhaps on the smaller side, in a brown or fawn, with hints of western or even campaign styling, just scaled down.
Again, not a fedora or modern western hat.

I live rurally and plan on wearing the hat hiking, fishing, doing chores, running into town and during just about any other outdoor activity possible in the Canadian elements. I am a good caretaker, but this hat isn’t going to be babied either. In fact, I welcome a bit of “patina” that comes naturally with use.

Here’s a couple pics from the era I’m interested in. Am I barking up the wrong tree with the OR or CD?

Feel free to throw questions back at me if you wish.
- Jeff

The CampDraft comes open crown so you have the choice to bash it as you wish. The OR comes with a hard set factory crease that will be impossible for you to remove. Akubra hats can take the abuse and represent very good value. Check out the Everything Australian or The Hattery for the best pricing.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Sounds like the earlier style you like is what's called a Western Dress fedora, which was popular from the turn of the century into the 1930's. Brim width was typically 3", 3-1/8", maybe 3-1/4 if it had a pencil curl. Regardless of how you crease it the key was the felt which was a thin, soft fedora weight; not thicker Western weight. There is a thread here on Pre-1930's Western Dress hats (or named something similar).

The OR came about as a modern version of a Western dress hat with brim width typically in the 2-1/2, 2-5/8, 2-3/4 range. If you buy a new OR look for the thinner & softer felt of the OR Royal Deluxe or the Pure OR. It will be much softer & malleable than the 6X.

A new CD will have felt that is thicker & stiffer, sort of the luck of the draw on what you get. You might have to beat it up a bit to soften it up, & use plenty of steam to get it more malleable.

I'm no expert. They just happen to be my favorite style of hat also.

 

[Frunobulax]

Welcome!

The first thing I would do is to go through photos here and elsewhere on the internet and find clear photos of the style(s) you’re interested in. Narrow it down and find detailed photos if possible. It’s like the old saying that a problem clearly defined is half solved. I’d start off looking at the pre-1940s hat threads here.

The Campdraft and the current Open Road both share the same problem for me: the crowns are too low. A low crown really limits the styles of creases the hat can manage.

Good luck.

With the caveat, of course, that you're a big guy and the only person I've heard complain about the ~5 7/8" open crown of the CD. Somewhere between 5 1/2" - 6" is enough and desirable for most of us.

 

[Jeff B.]

Thanks for the tips. The “Western Dress Fedora” just sounds like its in my wheel house.
Also, I’m 5’10” with with a slim build. I’m a smaller man, and don’t want anything too big. I like the proportions of the modern OR, but am not 100% sure about the crown height (I don’t want the crease resting on my head).

 

[Hurricane Jack]

I like the proportions of the modern OR, but am not 100% sure about the crown height (I don’t want the crease resting on my head).

If it rests on your head it's usually the side dents that touch. You can try pushing those open if you like that style. But it looks best with a #52 block & I think the modern OR is a #81.

To give you an idea of the look this is a block #52 in a 3x6 creased without side dents.

You might look for a Resistol Waco or San Antonio but it will have to be a vintage hat.

 

[jlee562]

The OR/Campdraft is slightly later than 1900's. The thin ribbon OR seems to have popped up around the 40's.

check out this 1902 Stetson Catalog, lots of those earlier styles. Personally, I have an affinity for the rolled brim hats. Many makers simply cannot duplicate this look anymore. It's not impossible, but the tooling is hard to find, and felt quality is not as good.

pretty sure this one is the Columbia:



Black hats were popular:



OR precursor:

 

[nidan48]

Hey folks, I’ve been reading and lurking here for a while, but figured it was time to throw a question out there. I apologize if I ramble on but I want to make my intentions clear and hopefully get some advice in return.

I am looking into purchasing either a new Open Road or a Campdraft, but am totally open to other options. Please educate me! I don’t want a fedora with the typical large ribbon and diamond crease and at the same time I don’t want a big modern western hat with a large, intrusive brim. That being said these particular models mentioned above appeal to me. I don’t mind the cattleman crease on the OR, but like the endless possibilities available with the open crown of the CD.
In terms of style, I find myself gravitating towards what one may find a farmer, surveyor, guide, or outdoorsman sporting in the early 1900’s, or maybe even into the 20’s. Think Daniel Plainview in “There Will Be Blood”. It doesn’t have to be that hat exactly, but it indicates towards where I am looking. A hat perhaps on the smaller side, in a brown or fawn, with hints of western or even campaign styling, just scaled down.
Again, not a fedora or modern western hat.

I live rurally and plan on wearing the hat hiking, fishing, doing chores, running into town and during just about any other outdoor activity possible in the Canadian elements. I am a good caretaker, but this hat isn’t going to be babied either. In fact, I welcome a bit of “patina” that comes naturally with use.

Here’s a couple pics from the era I’m interested in. Am I barking up the wrong tree with the OR or CD?

Feel free to throw questions back at me if you wish.
- Jeff

Got a campdraft a few years ago. I like it. Holds up in the rain, good sun protection, and I like it's looks.
The open road is too big for me, very LBJ, too western. I need a high crown to keep the top from touching my head.
I do live on Long Island so maybe that has influenced my thinking as to style. I got it in bluegrass but I already had a number of browns and greys. Over time the brim has developed a nicer curve than the squatter but I have not worn the squatter as much, it's a few years newer.

 

[jlee562]

Got a campdraft a few years ago. I like it. Holds up in the rain, good sun protection, and I like it's looks.
The open road is too big for me, very LBJ, too western. I need a high crown to keep the top from touching my head.
I do live on Long Island so maybe that has influenced my thinking as to style. I got it in bluegrass but I already had a number of browns and greys. Over time the brim has developed a nicer curve than the squatter but I have not worn the squatter as much, it's a few years newer.

Huh?

what OR were you trying? The modern OR is smaller than the campdraft. Can you expand on why the OR is "too western?" is it just the cattleman crown? Something is lost in translation for me, because the Campdraft is an OR, more or less, as it was formerly produced under license as the OR.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

With the caveat, of course, that you're a big guy and the only person I've heard complain about the ~5 7/8" open crown of the CD. Somewhere between 5 1/2" - 6" is enough and desirable for most of us.

The current Campdraft is listed as a 5 1/2” open crown and that’s what mine measure. Others have new Campdrafts that they say measure taller, but mine have matched the factory specs of 5 1/2”. Now 5 1/2” isn’t a short crown, but it’s not ideal for many of the western creases.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

check out this 1902 Stetson Catalog, lots of those earlier styles. Personally, I have an affinity for the rolled brim hats. Many makers simply cannot duplicate this look anymore. It's not impossible, but the tooling is hard to find, and felt quality is not as good.

Jared, I agree pretty much with everything you said. Since so many of the early Western fedoras were not stamped with a model name & can no longer be identified easily I have fallen into the habit of calling them a 3x6, such as the Coney in the catalog above.

 

[Frunobulax]

The current Campdraft is listed as a 5 1/2” open crown and that’s what mine measure. Others have new Campdrafts that they say measure taller, but mine have matched the factory specs of 5 1/2”. Now 5 1/2” isn’t a short crown, but it’s not ideal for many of the western creases.

Every Camp Draft I have (4), including the black one I got two days before Christmas has an OC just shy of 6".

Just lucky, I guess.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Every Camp Draft I have (4), including the black one I got two days before Christmas has an OC just shy of 6".

Just lucky, I guess.

Maybe to get the larger sizes (62cm) they have to steal some felt from the crown height? You’re not the only person who has taller crown Campdrafts.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

I do live on Long Island so maybe that has influenced my thinking...

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Every Camp Draft I have (4), including the black one I got two days before Christmas has an OC just shy of 6".

Just lucky, I guess.

Maybe someone is using that engineers tape again?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I had a hat made that might be something along the lines of what you’re looking for:

 

[Frunobulax]

Maybe to get the larger sizes (62cm) they have to steal some felt from the crown height? You’re not the only person who has taller crown Campdrafts.

Sound plausible enough to me.

 

[Jeff B.]

The OR/Campdraft is slightly later than 1900's. The thin ribbon OR seems to have popped up around the 40's.

check out this 1902 Stetson Catalog, lots of those earlier styles. Personally, I have an affinity for the rolled brim hats. Many makers simply cannot duplicate this look anymore. It's not impossible, but the tooling is hard to find, and felt quality is not as good.

pretty sure this one is the Columbia:



Black hats were popular:



OR precursor:

What great resources, thank-you! I like all those hats pictured on the first ad (minus the two Gus crowns).
The 1902 sales catalogue had some interesting models too. The 1028
Colt, 1073 Express and 1083 Eton all jumped out at me.
I was a little surprised by how unrefined many of the crowns appear on these earlier hats in the 1902 catalogue. Many of the bashes look hastily done, as if naturally formed by human handling/pinching.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

What great resources, thank-you! I like all those hats pictured on the first ad (minus the two Gus crowns).
The 1902 sales catalogue had some interesting models too. The 1028
Colt, 1073 Express and 1083 Eton all jumped out at me.
I was a little surprised by how unrefined many of the crowns appear on these earlier hats in the 1902 catalogue. Many of the bashes look hastily done, as if naturally formed by human handling/pinching.

The organic crease is what many of us look for. Modern factory made hats usually have a machine pressed crown shape that is perfectly symmetrical and even, but it’s lifeless and very difficult to change. Many hats were sold open crown back in the day and the shop or the owner creased them.

I don’t think there was a “Gus” as such at the time of those hats.