“An error does not become a mistake until you refuse to correct it.” ~ John F. Kennedy

[JMax]

By now it may well be transparent. It was on the teacore super-highway.

Haha. That’s true. It may well be past the point of looking good. We all draw that particular line somewhere.

 

[ton312]

Haha. That’s true. It may well be past the point of looking good. We all draw that particular line somewhere.

I’d be curious to see it but would expect it to be almost like a natural hide at this point. Went from black to almost light brown in record time! It’s funny but googling Diamond Dave Buco doesn’t yield any result for that jacket, which is surprising as I think it was the most documented DD ever produced. Kind of a shame as I wouldn’t mind revisiting the evolution.

 

[El Marro]

Haha. That’s true. It may well be past the point of looking good. We all draw that particular line somewhere.

It’s funny you mention that. I used to worry about having that problem myself when I started buying leather jackets. Obviously there is a point at which cool looking patina and wear just starts to look ratty and worn out. As it stands I don’t think I will ever know anything about that because none of my jackets get enough wear to ever hope to reach that stage.

 

[Marc mndt]

I’d be curious to see it but would expect it to be almost like a natural hide at this point. Went from black to almost light brown in record time! It’s funny but googling Diamond Dave Buco doesn’t yield any result for that jacket, which is surprising as I think it was the most documented DD ever produced. Kind of a shame as I wouldn’t mind revisiting the evolution.

This one?

 

[JMax]

It’s funny you mention that. I used to worry about having that problem myself when I started buying leather jackets. Obviously there is a point at which cool looking patina and wear just starts to look ratty and worn out. As it stands I don’t think I will ever know anything about that because none of my jackets get enough wear to ever hope to reach that stage.

Exactly. See it all the time in listings for vintage jackets. The seller pitching something like— Awesome, beautiful patina, decades in the making and you can have it now! And I’m on the other side thinking— Nope, not at all, that’s just a ratty-ass jacket dude.

 

[ton312]

This one?
View attachment 312087 View attachment 312088 View attachment 312089

That’s the one! I found it too with some additional keywords. It really was a fast moving patina.

 

[ton312]

Exactly. See it all the time in listings for vintage jackets. The seller pitching something like— Awesome, beautiful patina, decades in the making and you can have it now! And I’m on the other side thinking— Nope, not at all, that’s just a ratty-ass jacket dude.

Yeah lots of deep cracks and flaking topcoat. That’s not damage...it’s PATINA!
That’ll be $900 please. LOL.
There’s quite a few HH vintage jackets like that, especially on Etsy. They are literally crumbling like they got hit by the Thanos snap. If you touch leather and it turns to sand...that’s not patina. It’s saw dust.

 

[Marc mndt]

Stitch work on the DD looks absolutely terrible btw

 

[Mich486]

The reputation of the most revered jacket on TFL destroyed just like that with a few super imposed red arrows pointing out its intrinsic flaws... I wonder if we were happier back then when we didn’t know...

 

[Fonzie]

The reputation of the most revered jacket on TFL destroyed just like that with a few super imposed red arrows pointing out its intrinsic flaws... I wonder if we were happier back then when we didn’t know...

I’m totally with you. It feels like an idol has just been killed.

 

[Marc mndt]

The reputation of the most revered jacket on TFL destroyed just like that with a few super imposed red arrows pointing out its intrinsic flaws... I wonder if we were happier back then when we didn’t know...

It's interesting, the jacket with the flaws was the remake. The first jacket A1 received had much cleaner stitching allover.

The flaws shown in my previous post also show that neat stitching is about more than just esthetics. Those rips in the corners of the double welt pockets would not have been there if they were neatly stitched.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

The reputation of the most revered jacket on TFL destroyed just like that with a few super imposed red arrows pointing out its intrinsic flaws... I wonder if we were happier back then when we didn’t know...

We all knew it was flawed even back then. I'm pretty sure A1 was well aware too, wasn't he?

Either way, it certainly shows how much better pretty much any jacket can look with wear.

 

[Marc mndt]

I wonder if we were happier back then when we didn’t know...

I wasn't on this forum back then so I can't comment on that.
I do know that we now know what sloppy looks like. But we also know what neat looks like.

 

[Monitor]

Stitch work on the DD looks absolutely terrible btw
View attachment 312090 View attachment 312091 View attachment 312092

The stitching errors are there to occupy you enough so you wouldn't notice where the main zipper starts.

 

[red devil]

The reputation of the most revered jacket on TFL destroyed just like that with a few super imposed red arrows pointing out its intrinsic flaws... I wonder if we were happier back then when we didn’t know...

If I am to love something, I would rather knows everything about it the good and the bad

 

[ton312]

“You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain”

-The guy who played Harvey Dent, I forget his name

Or in this case you die a hero and your corpse is exhumed and becomes the villain.

 

[Mich486]

All valid points and I’m the first to appreciate a neatly constructed jacket with a high stitch count, just wondering whether this approach of putting everything under a magnifying glass is bringing any more enjoyment to the table... or sucking a bit of fun out of this hobby after all. Not criticising anyone’s approach... just thinking out loud.

I think we got to a stage in the past few months where the amount of numbers and measurements and close up pictures of jacket details has gone through the roof. The approach has become much more “scientific” if you like. A very quality driven approach to clothing. I don’t know if that’s my thing... jeez I crunch numbers all day at work already

 

[red devil]

All valid points and I’m the first to appreciate a neatly constructed jacket with a high stitch count, just wondering whether this approach of putting everything under a magnifying glass is bringing any more enjoyment to the table... or sucking a bit of fun out of this hobby after all. Not criticising anyone’s approach... just thinking out loud.

I think we got to a stage in the past few months where the amount of numbers and measurements and close up pictures of jacket details has gone through the roof. The approach has become much more “scientific” if you like. A very quality driven approach to clothing. I don’t know if that’s my thing... jeez I crunch numbers all day at work already

I guess it depends on our preferences, I have been pointing out how great these detailed conversations are recently, they made me much more aware of what I want and what constitutes quality. Thanks to this we are much less at the mercy of hype and marketing.

It is true that too much science can kill the "poetry" in this hobby, but it doesn't feel we reached this stage.

 

[navetsea]

Haha. That’s true. It may well be past the point of looking good. We all draw that particular line somewhere.

I still think there is a different between fading and leather turns raw losing the top paint dry out and cracking, however even with that smooth fading I dunno how I would feel when in one year a black leather jacket turns almost completely light brown with here and there little speck of black, it is almost the same with some jeans that is engineered to quickly fade.

It's interesting, the jacket with the flaws was the remake. The first jacket A1 received had much cleaner stitching allover.
View attachment 312111 View attachment 312112

The flaws shown in my previous post also show that neat stitching is about more than just esthetics. Those rips in the corners of the double welt pockets would not have been there if they were neatly stitched.

the base of the sleeve is all puckering because he didn't make cuts to the folded edge inside, and DD seemed like never heard of glue... pocket frame is always glued down or at least double side taped to stay in place before sewing.

 

[Edward]

To the OP question, as a general rule I believe it is only right to offer a manufacturer a chance to correct a mistake prior to badmouthing them online. As has been noted many times over, it's not whether a problem arises, but how it is dealt with. That said, there are also times where it is reasonable to ask other folks for an objective opinion as to whether I might be being super-critical, or had unrealistic expectations, or whatever. That's for new purchases. Otherwise... well, we all change in taste and expectation over time. I wouldn't badmouth companies from whom I bought stuff in the past now, though I might, if asked for an opinion, be as objective as I can and say - "This is why I personally wouldn't recommend them - YMMV".

I think people need to realize that there are "aesthetical" mistakes and then there's "construction" mistakes. What I mean is that if the wonky stitching or seams don't affect the strenght of the jacket then it's a flaw, an ugly one but not critical to the integrity of the jacket.

Should a visual mistake be passed on to the customer? Well, maybe if a discount was offered and the customer is aware before shipping and accepts it but not otherwise. The maker should just correct it without having to think twice about it, after all it's a premium product at a expensive price, mistakes shouldn't go out the door. They could just sell the jacket as seconds or at a steep discount and I'm sure anyone would buy it but that then affects the image of the brand or maker which I guess some don't want.

Should a structural mistake be passed on to the customer? NEVER

An important distinction, certainly. Part of the same calculation of reasonable expectation v reality I refer to above.

I

That's critical Dude. In the review community it's getting harder to tell who is a shill and who is legit. We live in a saturated world of phoney product 'reviews' - this era's slightly more cunning marketing strategies. People buy things based on a tissue of lies.

Sadly, I've seen this in action. It sometimes makes me wary of leaving my own reviews on anything tbh... though I do try to leave an honest & positive review where I have ben pleased, because a lot of people undoubtedly suffer from the opposite thing - vicious, negative reviews from those with an axe to grind, while those who are happy don't bother.

I was thinking the same thing, good old @A-1 and his DD Buco. The jacket couldn’t have been that badly put together if it stood up to everything he threw at it.
My own DD A-2 has not seen nearly as much wear but it is a well-made jacket and one I like to wear from time to time.

I've never handled a DD jacket, bit it was definitely apparent that there was a range of quality in the brand. I did wonder at the time whether part of it was the difficulty of working as a one-man operation; decide a jacket you've spent a day making isn't good enough to go out, that's a day you've made no money.

I'm not arguing to excuse lowered standards, don't get me wrong, but I can see how factors like that could effect what a small operation decides gets out the door. And the truth is, we can all be a little bit obsessive here, there is an onus on us to be reasonable (in general, not speaking to any one incidence here). I know I've seen it from the other side with a costumier who was doing very high quality cosplay repro stuff. Probably the best globally in her field, but as it related to a b-movie property over forty years old now, there were some materials that simply are no longer available, or some folks who didn't understand what they were demanding ("I want those hotpants, as worn by that woman in the film, with exactly the same number of stripes the same distance apart as hers - oh, and I'm six sizes bigger than her.....") was simply impossible. She'd get these mad requests, then demands for discounts and all sorts because of some imagined or impossible to avoid tiny variation. In the end she had to start refusing to do work for some people because they simply were unrealistic in their expectations.

There's a good point, should the seller or the buyer pay for return carriage? And what about additional insurance, who pays for that? An expensive jacket could go missing leaving the buyer out of pocket and no jacket. Thoughts!

Per current consumer protection law in the UK, if you are returning goods within the specified cooling off period because of a change of mind or because you didn't like them when they arrive, you are required to pay the return postage. However, if you have been miss-sold items that do not meet the spec promised or which are otherwise defective, the company are obligated to pay the return postage as well as to refund you. You might find this link useful:

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-ri...se-paying-the-cost-of-returning-a-faulty-item

Good question, if it is in the same country I would say on the seller. International orders, especially when customs are involved get too complicated to deal with

Juris diction can complicate things. Now the post-Brexit transition period is complete, it will doubtless be harder to pursue this sort of thing across Europe if a seller refuses to play ball (though for now at least the UK remains harmonised to EU law o this basis). Once you go outside that again, it's nigh on impossible to enforce this sort of thing, alas.

It’s funny you mention that. I used to worry about having that problem myself when I started buying leather jackets. Obviously there is a point at which cool looking patina and wear just starts to look ratty and worn out. As it stands I don’t think I will ever know anything about that because none of my jackets get enough wear to ever hope to reach that stage.

This was always my wariness about tea core; it's designed for guys who want the look of a seventy/eighty year old jacket as quickly as possible after buying it new. Fine for guys who for whatever reason (size, cost, availability...) are buying into that idea of having the next best thing to a vintage jacket; not so ideal for those of us who want the look of a jacket made in ,say, 1948, being worn circa 1953.