“An error does not become a mistake until you refuse to correct it.” ~ John F. Kennedy

[navetsea]

there should be a base level of technical competence before you would ask how much was he charged $900? for a jacket right? maybe just keep it as a hobby or apprenticing somewhere until that base level of sewing, patterning is achieved, who was the maker of that (PN's?) lopsided breast pockets J100 wasn't it also a DD ? or was it another jacket (PDXgeo's ?) crosszip Dpocket with lopsided beltloops? front belt loops measured the same distance to the left and right of the main zip... on a cross zip... lol

 

[handymike]

there should be a base level of technical competence before you would ask how much was he charged $900? for a jacket right? maybe just keep it as a hobby or apprenticing somewhere until that base level of sewing, patterning is achieved, who was the maker of that (PN's?) lopsided breast pockets J100 wasn't it also a DD ? or was it another jacket (PDXgeo's ?) crosszip Dpocket with lopsided beltloops? front belt loops measured the same distance to the left and right of the main zip... on a cross zip... lol

This is where his business failed. The mistakes kept happening as the prices went up. Then, he began to get belligerent when people complained. He also started getting into arguments with customers and other makers on public forums..
Not the best model for a start-up.

 

[El Marro]

All valid points and I’m the first to appreciate a neatly constructed jacket with a high stitch count, just wondering whether this approach of putting everything under a magnifying glass is bringing any more enjoyment to the table... or sucking a bit of fun out of this hobby after all. Not criticising anyone’s approach... just thinking out loud.

I do not look at my jackets with this level of detail and I think I would be less happy with them if I did. I’m not saying that I never notice any flaws in stitching or construction but I don’t go looking for them.
I would not dispute whether or not any of this issues pointed out on A1’s jacket are flaws but I will say they do nothing to diminish my appreciation of this jacket.
As far as how this relates to our forum I don’t think it diminishes my enjoyment, nor should it diminish yours. I am grateful for the observations of those who are more observant than I and if I don’t agree with their observations I am free to do so.

 

[handymike]

When I post a jacket going forward, please don’t pick it apart unless I ask.

 

[El Marro]

I also want to add that what made A-1’s jacket so special was A-1 himself. He set out to find the jacket that was perfect for him and once he found it he never took it off!

 

[navetsea]

adopting a puppy... OH NOES the spots are not symmetrical on the left and right ear, tail crooked to one side too

 

[Edward]

I know this of course circles back to expectations quite simply - and fairly - rising with price-band, but it does often cross my mind that we have much higher expectations now as hobbyists than would probably have been the case when the 'original' jackets were put out. It's interesting how this dynamic changes the nature of the game, especially when it comes to military jackets which would have been often more than mass-produced.

 

[Monitor]

If I am to love something, I would rather knows everything about it the good and the bad

^ This ^ is exactly what it's all about - I'd rather know that I've been scammed than play the three monkeys. I am on this forum precisely because I do care and I would appreciate it infinitely if someone would point out why my purchase sucks ass.
DD has been peddling trash from day one. Sometimes he'd make a nice jacket, equal amount of times, he'd produce stuff like this...

Did DD even try to zip this jacket up before stuffing $1000 into his pockets and sending it out? Does he understand what the zipper is for? He seriously should contact A-1 and buy him a RMC.

 

[red devil]

I know this of course circles back to expectations quite simply - and fairly - rising with price-band, but it does often cross my mind that we have much higher expectations now as hobbyists than would probably have been the case when the 'original' jackets were put out. It's interesting how this dynamic changes the nature of the game, especially when it comes to military jackets which would have been often more than mass-produced.

I suspect if I was living back then, a military jacket would have been standard issue, otherwise I would never sport one - and truth be told I don't think I would have been in this sector. So most likely, I would have been hunting for the best motorcycle jacket maker, as I would very likely have been a biker.

 

[Carlos840]

^ This ^ is exactly what it's all about - I'd rather know that I've been scammed than play the three monkeys. I am on this forum precisely because I do care and I would appreciate it infinitely if someone would point out why my purchase sucks ass.
DD has been peddling trash from day one. Sometimes he'd make a nice jacket, equal amount of times, he'd produce stuff like this...

Did DD even try to zip this jacket up before stuffing $1000 into his pockets and sending it out? Does he understand what the zipper is for? He seriously should contact A-1 and buy him a RMC.

That bottom one is quite hilarious...

Let's not forget the precision of this belt loop:

He must have sneezed when making that cut, there is no other explanation!

 

[Justhandguns]

I know this of course circles back to expectations quite simply - and fairly - rising with price-band, but it does often cross my mind that we have much higher expectations now as hobbyists than would probably have been the case when the 'original' jackets were put out. It's interesting how this dynamic changes the nature of the game, especially when it comes to military jackets which would have been often more than mass-produced.

I have been reading this thread as well as 'the other' thread. This is indeed a very interesting (and debatable) subject. It is quite interesting to see how the H-brand has been highlighted over here. I must declare that I don't own any jacket from this brand, yet. What I have noticed recently is that they have launched their own Youtube channel as well as reported (and advertised) by several Youtube KOLs as the ultimate leather jacket brand. What it looks to me that they are trying to raise the profile even more as a premium brand in this niche market or even beyond into the fashion world. As a result, expectations would also skyrocket. Their price bracket is matching the likes of the Japanese makes such as Real McCoy, and naturally jacket lovers would like to see similar qualities in terms of designs, materials and QCs (The Japanese makers do have some odd blips occasionally, but most of their products are pretty much flawless). Everything is relative afterall.

Somebody mentioned about the defunct DD. I do own one of his earlier Buco J100 (non-Shinki), for the money that I paid, it is not bad as there were few choices at that time, the alternative was RM/Buco which cost double of what DD offered. And for me, it was a gamble because DD was new and I was ordering from across the pond. I am happy with my jacket even though it may not be as perfect as the Japanese counterpart. (I guess I am lucky?)

Some of the people suggested that we should bring the issue back to the makers themselves. This would be quite difficult for some of us buying from the 'overseas' as returning or exchanging sometimes cause more troubles than just money.

As many of you own so many different jackets from different brands, why not do some comparisons side by side so that we can pool our knowledge together. For my job, we always demand our output to be 'statistically significant'. So the more honest comparisons, the better.

 

[Edward]

I tend to find a lot of these things are inevitably subjective, but providing we all accept that, it's interesting to see what the different options offer; even within the same price band, these niche makers are not necessarily directly competing with each other in the sense of making the same product, more, as a rule, selling their own 'style'. Thedi, Aero and Lewis are all around the same price, for instance, but each has a distinct house style which would not be mistaken for the others.

 

[Edward]

I suspect if I was living back then, a military jacket would have been standard issue, otherwise I would never sport one - and truth be told I don't think I would have been in this sector. So most likely, I would have been hunting for the best motorcycle jacket maker, as I would very likely have been a biker.

Funny thing, as I've gotten much more into a 'vintage' style wardrobe, I've moved away much more from the military styles, or at least being overly concerned about stitch-for-stitch accuracy, as the civilian styles I seek to emulate would be at best highly unlikely to be wearing military jackets, though quite possibly military style jackets, which would have had notable alterations to appeal to the civilian market.

 

[dannyk]

I know this of course circles back to expectations quite simply - and fairly - rising with price-band, but it does often cross my mind that we have much higher expectations now as hobbyists than would probably have been the case when the 'original' jackets were put out. It's interesting how this dynamic changes the nature of the game, especially when it comes to military jackets which would have been often more than mass-produced.

Yup I know you and I have had this exact conversation before. There’s many people obsessed with accuracy; and because of that many brands across the US, Europe and Japan advertise their accuracy. Or heavily push terms like mil-spec. When it comes to mil-spec that means sh*t. The military needs mass produced products at relatively cheap costs that do exactly what the job requires and not one bit more. In fact in the niche collectors market folks like us are in; mil-spec would actually mean inferior quality than what we are used to. And then those obsessed with accuracy will pay hundreds if not thousands for it. And I don’t blame them-to be 100% clear this is no shot at collectors I myself being one it would be a direct shot at myself then; and I’m not about shooting myself! Haha. This is a shot at the companies charging so much for things that in their time we’re cheap! I’m not even talking about inflation and cola and rising labor and materials costs which of course play a roll. 100% they do. But if these jackets were made to the standards and materials used in the 40s and 50s they would still in today’s market cost much less; or rather they should. Which then leads to the other side of things so many companies claim how authentic their things are but in general the materials we have today are so much better. Even if using the “same” things. Today’s hide options are made with so much more variety and quality. The zips, the stitching etc..which then means they are not very authentic are they? But hey I’m done rambling now since this isn’t related to the OPs topic. Quite sorry for deviating from that. It’s just something that always makes me laugh, then get angry, open my wallet and pay for it anyway, then laugh at myself.

 

[Superfluous]

All valid points and I’m the first to appreciate a neatly constructed jacket with a high stitch count, just wondering whether this approach of putting everything under a magnifying glass is bringing any more enjoyment to the table... or sucking a bit of fun out of this hobby after all.

I do not look at my jackets with this level of detail and I think I would be less happy with them if I did. I’m not saying that I never notice any flaws in stitching or construction but I don’t go looking for them.

Sage observations. On the one hand, we want to ensure that we received the quality we paid for. On the other hand, if we put almost anything under a microscope, we will inevitably find flaws. Obviously, this balance is different for everyone. Some carefully examine every inch of a new jacket, inside and out, with meticulous, painstaking detail. Others strap it on and, if it fits well, they are happy. I am somewhere in the middle. I certainly take a look at my new jacket, but I admittedly do not scrutinize it to the same degree as some here.

Photographic analysis is a dangerous tool. With photos, we can magnify jackets well beyond life size and thereby reveal flaws not apparent to the naked eye. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? We become more informed about our jackets, but perhaps at the expense of satisfaction/contentment.

Back when I patronized watch forums, a similar debate occurred. People would post gynormous photos of watches that revealed hairline scratches imperceptible without intense magnification. Do I want to know that my perfect looking watch is anything but perfect at 10x magnification?

Do we care about flaws that only appear under magnification and/or a meticulous, painstaking inspection? If we do not see or experience a particular flaw during daily use, do we care? At what point does "ignorance is bliss" contentment trump full knowledge?

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I love looking at all the micro details of my clothes. Even when I do find flaws, I find it really interesting. To me, it's very important to analyze my clothing closely. It's not chump change after all. A huge reason that I like this type of clothing is the quality and craftsmanship. It's not just the style. As a result, I am naturally going to make sure I am getting the quality and craftsmanship that I care about.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I love looking at all the micro details of my clothes. Even when I do find flaws, I find it really interesting. To me, it's very important to analyze my clothing closely. It's not chump change after all. A huge reason that I like this type of clothing is the quality and craftsmanship. It's not just the style. As a result, I am naturally going to make sure I am getting the quality and craftsmanship that I care about.

Interesting. I think the internet and the ongoing quest for authenticity though consumer goods has resulted in many people seeing things and looking for things that mostly were not really noticed before. Even a by-product of photographing everything has resulted in us all becoming more detail obsessed.

My old custom leather jackets made in the 1980's and 1990's were well made, solid, heirloom items but there was no cult of artisanal craftsmanship around them back then. The jackets were hand made and heavy and had some uneven stitching and the odd mistake. It wasn't really thought to look closely at these things back then because we hadn't really fetishised jackets (and so many other goods) to this point yet. They also weren't as expensive.

Manufacturing quality, small details and the quest for perfection in execution are all something much more in evidence these days. Do I care that my 1980's leather jacket has a crooked seam? Not really. But I might these days if I were to buy a new one, because we've have been trained to look for perfect details. I would also have to pay over $1000 for a new jacket which I probably won't bother doing.

 

[navetsea]

^ This ^ is exactly what it's all about - I'd rather know that I've been scammed than play the three monkeys. I am on this forum precisely because I do care and I would appreciate it infinitely if someone would point out why my purchase sucks ass.
DD has been peddling trash from day one. Sometimes he'd make a nice jacket, equal amount of times, he'd produce stuff like this...

Did DD even try to zip this jacket up before stuffing $1000 into his pockets and sending it out? Does he understand what the zipper is for? He seriously should contact A-1 and buy him a RMC.

like woops I took a wrong zipper length from the drawer for this jacket type... ah f it ... stich stich...
but A1 really owns it.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Interesting. I think the internet and the ongoing quest for authenticity though consumer goods has resulted in many people seeing things and looking for things that mostly were not really noticed before. Even a by-product of photographing everything has resulted in us all becoming more detail obsessed.

My old custom leather jackets made in the 1980's and 1990's were well made, solid, heirloom items but there was no cult of artisanal craftsmanship around them back then. The jackets were hand made and heavy and had some uneven stitching and the odd mistake. It wasn't really thought to look closely at these things back then because we hadn't really fetishised jackets (and so many other goods) to this point yet. They also weren't as expensive.

Manufacturing quality, small details and the quest for perfection in execution are all something much more in evidence these days. Do I care that my 1980's leather jacket has a crooked seam? Not really. But I might these days if I were to buy a new one, because we've have been trained to look for perfect details. I would also have to pay over $1000 for a new jacket which I probably won't bother doing.

Yes, I do think we notice more now than we or others would have noticed in the past. Personally, I don't think that's a bad thing. I'm only speaking for myself of course. As I said, part of the reason I'm into this type of clothing in the first place is for the quality and the authenticity. If I didn't care about that, I probably would be into a different style or I would integrate leather jackets and boots into something else.

 

[Blackadder]

^ This ^ is exactly what it's all about - I'd rather know that I've been scammed than play the three monkeys. I am on this forum precisely because I do care and I would appreciate it infinitely if someone would point out why my purchase sucks ass.
DD has been peddling trash from day one. Sometimes he'd make a nice jacket, equal amount of times, he'd produce stuff like this...

Did DD even try to zip this jacket up before stuffing $1000 into his pockets and sending it out? Does he understand what the zipper is for? He seriously should contact A-1 and buy him a RMC.

Exactly what I have been saying. The machinist should have known while aligning the zipper and yet still decided to sew it on. Even if he blindly sewed on the zipper, he would still have noticed the moment the zipper ran out.
In this case we have a one man operation without QC. To be honest, I have not noticed the zipper back then until Carlos pointed it out. Had I been the QC, I might have wasted a few minutes checking all the other parts until finally testing all the zippers and only then noticed the mistake.
We are not talking about RRLs that are made in factories where machinists would be inclined to pass all their mistakes and responsibility to the QC. Many of the makers here are small workshops where machinist can definitely be located and held accountable for the mistakes and yet the machinists still pass the flawed goods on.
As said, it depends on the type of "mistake" or "flaw", many of these "flaws" are deliberate or immediately noticeable and yet these products are passed on without even a note or warning to the buyer.