Zootshooting

[Viola]

Hopefully! Combining guns and historic costuming is pretty awesome to me.

I'm not sure I don't still love the idea of CAS more than zoot-shooting...just for the revolvers. Not sure what handguns beyond 1911s they're using for zootshooting?

Also, I have to think of the outfits! lol

 

[Diamondback]

Browning Hi-Power, possibly, maybe Mausers or Lugers if you can find 'em.

 

[anon`]

Hopefully! Combining guns and historic costuming is pretty awesome to me.

I'm not sure I don't still love the idea of CAS more than zoot-shooting...just for the revolvers. Not sure what handguns beyond 1911s they're using for zootshooting?

Also, I have to think of the outfits! lol

This is my biggest gripe about Zootshooting! They have very weird rules on calibre: .38 is given as the smallest allowable calibre, but .32 was quite possibly a more popular size for their era. I can only figure that the minimum calibre thing is intended to keep people from showing up with 1911s (or any other gun, for that matter) converted to .22, but c'mon--they've managed to ban some of the most popular pistols of their given era. It would be like CAS deciding that that the Winchester Model 1873 wasn't appropriate for their purposes.

Single-action revolvers would probably be out of the question for Zootshooting, but you could get by with a Colt Police Positive or Official Police, or a Smith & Wesson Military & Police.

 

[Viola]

I was eyeing an S&W Terrier at one point but it was in .38 S&W not .38 Special which seemed like something that would probably end up being a pain.

 

[warbird]

This is my biggest gripe about Zootshooting! They have very weird rules on calibre: .38 is given as the smallest allowable calibre, but .32 was quite possibly a more popular size for their era. I can only figure that the minimum calibre thing is intended to keep people from showing up with 1911s (or any other gun, for that matter) converted to .22, but c'mon--they've managed to ban some of the most popular pistols of their given era. It would be like CAS deciding that that the Winchester Model 1873 wasn't appropriate for their purposes.

Single-action revolvers would probably be out of the question for Zootshooting, but you could get by with a Colt Police Positive or Official Police, or a Smith & Wesson Military & Police.

My thinking on it is this, this organization is nothing, nada. They have no real power over organizing bodies, they have no influence at ranges.

When cowboy action got big there were numerous bodies out there. SASS became the biggest and the best run organization and sanctioning body for that sport because they made it such that the majority of the participants in the sport, you never please everybody, liked SASS and their leaders the best. And they marketed themselves better and they pulled in some well known western gun experts, well known shooters etc.

I have personally talked to numerous people around the country who are interested in this golden era style shooting and very few have seen this zootshooting org. They plan to just start something on their own. They dont care what this groups rules are. I have looked over their rules. Most make sense to me. Most every sport has a minimum caliber permissible for all but special or side matches. Some of their rules are ridiculous. Other I dont care for but they are safe and safe is always important. I can tell you what shooters will respond to and wont. I have shot just about everything. This has the potential to have a fair amount of involvement, but it will never come close to the cowboy stuff. If I wanted to shoot this kind of thing I wouldn't join that group or adopt their rules, I'd start my own, but that's just me.

So I say all of this to say if you know people who would want to do something like this and you have some marketing type leaders among you, start your own group, have fun yourselves and also try to get others around the country to adopt your club rules and have some regional events, grow it, have a national event. That's the way you build it.

Or you can get a club that is already formed but that has changed the rules to their liking, it is my understanding several have already, have a name change and start marketing it as this new club. Again have your own regional type events and state events and go from there. IF you pull in some folks it wont be long before you get as much or more attention from outdoor shows and such looking for a good story or from manufacturers and sponsors.

 

[Story]

Not mine [huh] : Remington Model 11 manf'd 1928, with a factory 10 round extension, for 'market hunters' (professional game bird hunters, who supplied restaurants and hotels).

Very much "Untouchables".

 

[p51]

This whole thing has been bounced around the Single Action Shooting Society (SASS) since they started doing this. I’ve been a member of SASS since 2007 (hardly shot at all this year because of panic buying of ammunition and reloading supplies after the presidential election, that is only now starting to taper off), and it seems like many SASS members think this is a cool idea. I know that SASS is getting big into “Wild Bunch” matches which are devoted to the movie of the same name, using WW1 era firearms as a “side” match to the cowboy stuff at larger shoots. Many people even re-create (very badly in most cases) the Villa-era US Cavalry uniforms worn at the start of the film. I haven’t gotten into that because cowboy stuff was expensive enough.
Generally speaking, whoever gets something like this off the ground first normally gets strong influence into the rules and how it goes down. Plenty of other groups do cowboy shooting and there are other international organizations, but generally most local clubs follow SASS protocols.

 

[reetpleat]

My thinking on it is this, this organization is nothing, nada. They have no real power over organizing bodies, they have no influence at ranges.

When cowboy action got big there were numerous bodies out there. SASS became the biggest and the best run organization and sanctioning body for that sport because they made it such that the majority of the participants in the sport, you never please everybody, liked SASS and their leaders the best. And they marketed themselves better and they pulled in some well known western gun experts, well known shooters etc.

I have personally talked to numerous people around the country who are interested in this golden era style shooting and very few have seen this zootshooting org. They plan to just start something on their own. They dont care what this groups rules are. I have looked over their rules. Most make sense to me. Most every sport has a minimum caliber permissible for all but special or side matches. Some of their rules are ridiculous. Other I dont care for but they are safe and safe is always important. I can tell you what shooters will respond to and wont. I have shot just about everything. This has the potential to have a fair amount of involvement, but it will never come close to the cowboy stuff. If I wanted to shoot this kind of thing I wouldn't join that group or adopt their rules, I'd start my own, but that's just me.

So I say all of this to say if you know people who would want to do something like this and you have some marketing type leaders among you, start your own group, have fun yourselves and also try to get others around the country to adopt your club rules and have some regional events, grow it, have a national event. That's the way you build it.

Or you can get a club that is already formed but that has changed the rules to their liking, it is my understanding several have already, have a name change and start marketing it as this new club. Again have your own regional type events and state events and go from there. IF you pull in some folks it wont be long before you get as much or more attention from outdoor shows and such looking for a good story or from manufacturers and sponsors.

Would it be out of line to suggest someone organize an event that is not only focused on the guns of the era, and some type of format that reflects gangster shoot outs or movies, but also has somecriteria for authentic period clothing? i know some car events have expanded to authentic clothing too.

Me, i am dying to buy an aerosoft bb gun that is a round c,ip thompson. I plan to try to talk a wwII reenactor to organize an aerosoft shoot out, only instead of it being line a wwIi reenactment, it will be a public enemy style with shotguns, tommy guns and postols, and of course, true, vintage clothing.

 

[Story]

Me, i am dying to buy an aerosoft bb gun that is a round c,ip thompson. I plan to try to talk a wwII reenactor to organize an aerosoft shoot out, only instead of it being line a wwIi reenactment, it will be a public enemy style with shotguns, tommy guns and postols, and of course, true, vintage clothing.

You may have half-hit on something, Reetpleat - in PA, there was a recent three gun shoot (semi-auto rifle, shotgun of choice, pistol of choice) in late October billed as a "Zombie Shoot". To your point, one stage of the shoot was room-clearing, done with Airsoft weapons.

Also related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spwfCMPofPc

 

[reetpleat]

You may have half-hit on something, Reetpleat - in PA, there was a recent three gun shoot (semi-auto rifle, shotgun of choice, pistol of choice) in late October billed as a "Zombie Shoot". To your point, one stage of the shoot was room-clearing, done with Airsoft weapons.

Also related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spwfCMPofPc

I have also been trying to work up rules for some kind of zombie game doing live action role play. I have heard of nerf guns being used. My idea would be set some foam bats and axes and such around, and use nerf guns, then five live and ten zombies go at it, zombies must exit game if hit in head, then reenter so they keep coming. I have loved zombies since i was a kid.

 

[Levallois]

My understanding is that the Zootshooters are rethinking their rules and there will be some adjustment later this year or earlier next year with regards to calibers that are allowed.

With regard to the club itself and whether this game will be popular with shooters in general, I plan on taking a wait and see attitude. I agree that they'll probably never have 90,000 members plus like SASS but I think there is some definite interest. Who knew SASS would ever be that big at the start?

As far as ignoring them and doing your own thing? Obviously, that's every other club and groups prerogative. I, for one, will stick with these guys for awhile and give them my full support (for what that's worth). They already have lined up some sponsorships and there are two satellite clubs already.

John

 

[Story]

New photo gallery
http://www.zootshooters.com/gallery/zoot-guns

 

[dakotanorth]

idea?

Has anyone considered airsoft battles? You can definitely get era-specific weapons, go with the retro zoot suits shown and HAVE AT IT.

 

[Story]

The Zoot Shooters' Shooting Gallery episode aired on Wednesday, January 20, 2009. 3:30 PM EST, 7:00 PM EST and 11:30 AM EST on the Outdoor Channel. You can watch the trailer and get more information on the DownRange.TV blog.
http://www.downrange.tv/blog/?p=1353

 

[The Good]

This is something I may be interested in doing someday, when I have the correct attire, gear, and weapons for it. Are there any Zoot-Shooting clubs in southern California?

Oh, and speaking of airsofting, as some have mentioned here, I actually own a Model 1928 Thompson airsoft gun. Most of my family, cousins and friends who do airsoft, have more modern weapons, such as M4 Carbines (most common), Uzis, or derivatives of the AK type guns.

 

[The Hustler]

Hello,

I've known for some time that this forum has been discussing American Zoot Shooters Association. Recently I signed on as a member to see what everyone has been talking about and to get help with my costume. Without trying to be a first time submitter that appears to be a business spamming this forum, I will try to answer some of the questions about the AZSA and clear-up some of its misconceptions...

Henning and I created Zoot Shooters in late 2007. We bought Thompsons then suits from the mall and finally came up with ideas about how we wanted to start a sport based upon it. We also wanted create something unique and fun without borrowing too much from others. About a year later we got some friends to join us and put the video together. This leads me to the rules...

Out of necessity, the current rules were written in a weekend to answer the questions that were coming in from our first website. They came completely from our own ideas and experience. Knowing that they are pretty rough, we plan to change them as Zoot Shooters evolves. The .38 minimum caliber rule was to keep it fair for the 1911 .45 shooters that we assumed would be the norm. Realizing that we excluded so many popular guns of the era, we have lowered the minimum caliber to .32. As far Condition 3 carry goes, it is for safety only. We're not concerned about our own abilities, it's those of new shooters. Our goal is to turn gun owners into shooters and we don't want inexperienced people sweeping themselves or anyone behind them with hot guns. It is just not safe.

I've seen comments about ruining suits and other costumes at matches. I'll admit that shooting and ranges are dirty but my suit is holding up great. I can say I paid less for my zoot suit than I have for other suits I've owned and worn it far many more times than any other as well. At this point, I don't worry too much about messing it up. It has more than paid for itself now. Also, I plan to replace it soon. I want something that looks more authentic to the 1920s-1930s. Which is also why I am here...

So, I hope I have not offended anybody. I look forward to answering more questions about Zoot Shooters and would like to learn as much as I can on this forum to get myself better "suited".

Thanks!
Jason Huss
aka The Hustler

American Zoot Shooters Association, LLC

 

[rmrdaddy]

Great to hear from you Jason!

You'll get some great info on suits here, I can guarantee that. I myself have enjoyed your groups' videos of capers and jobs. Keep up the good work!
:cheers1:

 

[The Hustler]

We appreciate the support! Zoot Shooters has been a lot of work and we're doing the best we can to make it grow. Any feedback we get, good or bad, helps us to make it better for everyone.

I'm looking forward to learning as much as I can from the Fedora Lounge and I will direct our members here as well. There is a link to this forum on our website. Hopefully, people are using it.

Thanks again,
Jason

 

[Diamondback]

Jason, I noticed that most of AZSA's characters are "one side or the other"--how would you handle a switch-hitter like Doc Holliday was, or Bruce Willis's character in Last Man Standing?

 

[The Hustler]

We have a rule where you can use an equal number of "good guy" or "bad guy" targets on a caper. Going by our current and USPSA / IPSC standards "bad guys" are the brown side and "good guys" are the white side of the paper targets. Steel targets would be designated by the caper description and should be painted similar to avoid confusion. At the start of the caper the shooter would tell the RO if they are "good" or "bad" (or hopefully be into character) and that determines which targets they would engage. If "John Smith" chooses to be "bad" that day, he would engage the white targets. We have not used this rule yet but we plan to. Some Zoot Shooters "bad guys" that are also USPSA / IPSC shooters (including myself) can't wait to take out some pesky white, "no-shoot" targets!

It would be really fun to have two or more good / bad guy capers in one match. If someone's character is wishy-washy, they can change attitudes from one caper to the next.

BTW, the name "John Smith" has already been taken. You can see him shooting the double 1911s at the beginning of our second video. And yes, that is against our rules. He performed that for the camera. It was just for the video.