You know you are getting old when:

[2jakes]

The other side of that coin; in his indulgence to make himself feel good he is depriving his daughters of the experience (and character building) of doing it themselves.

This is something that is noticed more
by others but not the parents when it comes to raising their children.

 

[Fading Fast]

The other side of that coin; in his indulgence to make himself feel good he is depriving his daughters of the experience (and character building) of doing it themselves.

I agree - and those familiar with my posts over these years (hence, no one - who pays me any attention) know how strongly I feel about the need to be exposed to life's hardness in order to deal with it. But to be fair, his daughters are, as noted, hard-working, smart, well-mannered and not spoiled in the traditional sense of the word.

How they will deal with life over time - we'll just have to see. I know that my not-easy upbringing helped me greatly throughout life, but his kids seem pretty well adjusted and they loved their childhoods. I wish them well, maybe they'll never have to be tested, but if they are, I hope they hold up well.

 

[p51]

I don't buy into a kid having to have a tough life. they just need to be able to adapt.
That's what I had, I was raised in the sticks by folks who didn't have much money (and were kids during the depression). I didn't have it very tough at all, but I had to make do for almost everything. Hand me downs and hand made clothes, making do with the wrong tools to do things with as adults would never trust you with their good stuff, things like that. the school system I went to was 3rd rate at best (seriously I thought school nurses and swimming pools in schools was something fictional that Hollywood invented, until I was in my 20s), so that carried to life away from home. Out in the wilds of North Florida, you had to figure stuff out yourself if you didn't want to big your folks for everything (and no kid did, then and there).
Adaptation? I got good at that as a general concept. I'm not easily disappointed, generally.

You know you are getting old if you remember before daytime TV soaps
there was...

View attachment 93609

Before TV soaps, there were radio ones, people seem to forget that. They went back a pretty long way.

I feel this way, way too often. We are on a not-good trajectory and I hope the good stuff can hold together for another few decades, but I doubt that will happen. But yes, it is odd to be happy you aren't younger.

Hey, every generation has said this in the past.
I think it's biological for people to:

• Suspect that civilization will unravel in the 'near future' (always soon after the timeframe person saying it expects they'll be passing on)
• Think the generation after them (never their generation) has no work ethic or respect for their elders and will cause everything to go to pot.

Every generation has said the above of the other generations around them.

 

[2jakes]

I find it interesting when parents tell their kids to say "Thank You” for the Christmas
presents I gave them.
While other kids don’t have to be told.

These are the ones that will greet me by name and say hello.

Before TV soaps, there were radio ones, people seem to forget that. They went back a pretty long way.

I wasn’t too keen on the “organ” music in
the background on the soaps that mom
listened to in the kitchen small radio sitting on top of the icebox.

About the only time that I could accept ”organ” sound was later from the “Doors” with their rendition of...
“Light My Fire”!

 

[ChiTownScion]

For different reasons in detail, I felt the same about life starting when I got out of my house and went to college - at seventeen. Like you, I paid my own freight, and (as I'm sure you did) worked a lot of hours during the school term (and more during breaks), but I felt free, on my own and excited about life for the first time just by being out of my house.

And like you, I took school very seriously, learned a lot and enjoyed it. Whereas, my education up until then had been adequate but not inspiring - you were put on a treadmill and you walked forward - college was an intellectually engaging and expanding experience that I am grateful for to this day. All the stress of my home life was lifted and I just had myself to care for - God, that was great.

At twenty, as noted above, I got my first real job and salary and, while low overall, it beat the heck out of the minimum or near-minimum wage jobs I had before and, without the added responsibility of school, work seemed easier. There is no money on earth that could get me to relive the first seventeen years of my life.

I think that we're both pretty damned fortunate to have been able to have paid our own freight. Things were better then, in that it was affordable if you were willing to work for it- and jobs were out there that made it possible. It's a lot harder for kids these days.

I suppose that now that I'm in my sixties I have the right to play the stock broken record about how soft kids have it these days, how we had it so rough, etc. but I cannot engage in anything so dishonest. To a large extent this winds its way back to personal experience and anecdote (always has) but the millennials which I know are almost all extremely hard working, serious, and sacrifice a lot more than I ever did in order to obtain their education. It's especially hard for them when colleges arbitrarily change the rules in the middle of the game: add additional course requirements for a core or a major for students who are in the middle of a course of study. Kids have to stick around for another semester or two just to graduate, and it isn't the result of major changing as it was when we were students. That brand of administrative caprice creates a lot of unnecessary hardship, and it's a moral outrage.

College never was for everyone, and it still isn't. But it is a life enriching experience in ways that go far beyond fulfilling vocational ambitions. Nothing precludes a young man or woman who wants to one day work as a journeyman electrician or carpenter from getting a liberal arts degree while waiting for an apprecticeship to open, and that option needs to be open to them as much as the person who wants to go the medical school, law school, or MBA route. And it should not result in a mountain of debt that precludes young people from the traditional achievements (a home, a family) of young adulthood.

 

[EngProf]

I think that we're both pretty damned fortunate to have been able to have paid our own freight. Things were better then, in that it was affordable if you were willing to work for it- and jobs were out there that made it possible. It's a lot harder for kids these days.

I suppose that now that I'm in my sixties I have the right to play the stock broken record about how soft kids have it these days, how we had it so rough, etc. but I cannot engage in anything so dishonest. To a large extent this winds its way back to personal experience and anecdote (always has) but the millennials which I know are almost all extremely hard working, serious, and sacrifice a lot more than I ever did in order to obtain their education. It's especially hard for them when colleges arbitrarily change the rules in the middle of the game: add additional course requirements for a core or a major for students who are in the middle of a course of study. Kids have to stick around for another semester or two just to graduate, and it isn't the result of major changing as it was when we were students. That brand of administrative caprice creates a lot of unnecessary hardship, and it's a moral outrage.

College never was for everyone, and it still isn't. But it is a life enriching experience in ways that go far beyond fulfilling vocational ambitions. Nothing precludes a young man or woman who wants to one day work as a journeyman electrician or carpenter from getting a liberal arts degree while waiting for an apprecticeship to open, and that option needs to be open to them as much as the person who wants to go the medical school, law school, or MBA route. And it should not result in a mountain of debt that precludes young people from the traditional achievements (a home, a family) of young adulthood.

I can only speak from the specific information I have, which relates to engineers. For them (us), the debt burden is almost exactly the same now as when I went to school (a long time ago), at least it is at this university. (I don't think we are unique for that profession, it's just that I'm on the appropriate career committees so that I know the specific numbers for our graduating seniors.)
The ratio of school-debt to starting salary is almost the same, although the total number of dollars of each has gone up significantly.
I know that not everyone could be, or wants to be an engineer, but the generalization that all millennials are over their heads in debt is not completely true.

"It's especially hard for them when colleges arbitrarily change the rules in the middle of the game: add additional course requirements for a core or a major for students who are in the middle of a course of study. Kids have to stick around for another semester or two just to graduate, and it isn't the result of major changing as it was when we were students."

Is this done at major (i.e., accredited) colleges/universities? (University of Phoenix, maybe??) Around here you are guaranteed that the course and graduation requirements are guided by the catalog rules that are in place during your first year. No changes, no exceptions from the administration... The college/university accrediting bodies police this stuff rigorously, so we do too.
(Even if a kid *wants* to change something that's not according to the specified rules, they have to go all the way up to the Dean's Office to get that done, if at all.)

 

[Zombie_61]

I am not so sure about that.....kind a like ridin' a bike I think.

Nawww, the shoes are completely different.

 

[Fading Fast]

I think that we're both pretty damned fortunate to have been able to have paid our own freight. Things were better then, in that it was affordable if you were willing to work for it- and jobs were out there that made it possible. It's a lot harder for kids these days.

I suppose that now that I'm in my sixties I have the right to play the stock broken record about how soft kids have it these days, how we had it so rough, etc. but I cannot engage in anything so dishonest. To a large extent this winds its way back to personal experience and anecdote (always has) but the millennials which I know are almost all extremely hard working, serious, and sacrifice a lot more than I ever did in order to obtain their education. It's especially hard for them when colleges arbitrarily change the rules in the middle of the game: add additional course requirements for a core or a major for students who are in the middle of a course of study. Kids have to stick around for another semester or two just to graduate, and it isn't the result of major changing as it was when we were students. That brand of administrative caprice creates a lot of unnecessary hardship, and it's a moral outrage.

College never was for everyone, and it still isn't. But it is a life enriching experience in ways that go far beyond fulfilling vocational ambitions. Nothing precludes a young man or woman who wants to one day work as a journeyman electrician or carpenter from getting a liberal arts degree while waiting for an apprecticeship to open, and that option needs to be open to them as much as the person who wants to go the medical school, law school, or MBA route. And it should not result in a mountain of debt that precludes young people from the traditional achievements (a home, a family) of young adulthood.

I agree that college was less expensive relative to incomes when we were going (early '80s) and, like you, I won't play the "everything was harder when I was a kid" game. And, my God, all these extracurricular activities the kids need today to get into school are crazy - it would be hard to hold a job down in high school and do all that. I had very good grades, high SAT scores, a few sports things, I wrote a decent essay and got into a good school - the wouldn't cut it today. But to be fair, it seems that many (not all) parents get this and are much more active participants in helping their kids with all that than when we were growing up - families adjust to changing realities.

To your second point, about the value of college whatever your future path, I agree but doubt our society can afford the luxury of providing the option of college (free or nearly free of debt) to everyone. Trying to keep this from being political - college education is just one of many competing demands on our resources and limited funds - Social Security, Medicare/aid, all the other social-net programs, defense, etc. - and the demographics (more elderly, less prime-age taxpayers) argue that whatever your political bent, it is going to be hard to just say, "this is the most important one."

IMHO, the "answer" or at least direction of a solution for education has to be a different framework than today where our schools evolve to many different models from pure technical / vocations (very skill specific) to traditional broad-based intellectual enrichment (the old ideal) with everything in between - more of it on line, more of it ongoing (education is a life long process) and done in a flexible manner that reduces the unsupportable cost structure built into today's older model. I realize those are all nice goals, but the devil (and hard work politically, socially, culturally and economically) is in the details - but I still believe that is the ultimate direction needed.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

 

[LizzieMaine]

Before TV soaps, there were radio ones, people seem to forget that. They went back a pretty long way.

Daytime radio serials started in 1930, and lasted on the networks until the end of 1960 -- and were still around well into the 1960s as syndicated reruns of old network shows. They even had a brief comeback as new productions in the mid-1970s. At the peak of American radio soap-opera production, in 1940, sixty-four different daytime serials were on the air every weekday -- that tops, in terms of sheer quantity of airtime consumed, anything television ever did. A great many radio writers and actors earned a very good living doing nothing but soaps.

Those who don't pay attention to such things may not realize it, but even TV soaps are now teetering on the edge of extinction. Only four soaps remain in current production -- two on CBS, one on NBC, and one on ABC, and at the current rate of audience decline, they may not last into the 2020s.

Not all radio soaps had organ music -- among other nonconformists, "The Romance of Helen Trent" opened with a ukulele solo, and "Just Plain Bill" with a really annoying harmonica.

 

[vitanola]

I find it interesting when parents tell their kids to say "Thank You” for the Christmas
presents I gave them.
While other kids don’t have to be told.

These are the ones that will greet me by name and say hello.


I wasn’t too keen on the “organ” music in
the background on the soaps that mom
listened to in the kitchen small radio sitting on top of the icebox.

About the only time that I could accept ”organ” sound was later from the “Doors” with their rendition of...
“Light My Fire”!

I find it interesting when parents tell their kids to say "Thank You” for the Christmas
presents I gave them.
While other kids don’t have to be told.

These are the ones that will greet me by name and say hello.


I wasn’t too keen on the “organ” music in
the background on the soaps that mom
listened to in the kitchen small radio sitting on top of the icebox.

About the only time that I could accept ”organ” sound was later from the “Doors” with their rendition of...
“Light My Fire”!

What? No love for Jesse Crawford?

 

[LizzieMaine]

What? No love for Jesse Crawford?

"Royal's Poet Of The Organ," because nothing says "office typewriter" like languid organ solos.

 

[vitanola]

"Royal's Poet Of The Organ," because nothing says "office typewriter" like languid organ solos.

Yeah. Like this:

 

[59Lark]

When I was 20 , I was doing what I am doing now but still living at home, would have breakfast at home, mom would do the dishes, go to work by 830 open the store at 9am work till 12noon close, flip the sign back at 1pm and mom would have a hot lunch , always leftovers and back at 1pm work till 5pm and home for supper and go back and do repairs till 8 or 9pm and go home and sleep. six days a week, there was a church across from me and xmas eve , I was working late and a chap came over , tom says only you would work xmas eve. I did that until I was married, now am losing my wife, wonder if , I will just put the work o holic in over drive or date again,? farm children are bred to work, and feel guiltly if not working . 59lark

 

[scottyrocks]

When I was 20 , I was doing what I am doing now but still living at home, would have breakfast at home, mom would do the dishes, go to work by 830 open the store at 9am work till 12noon close, flip the sign back at 1pm and mom would have a hot lunch , always leftovers and back at 1pm work till 5pm and home for supper and go back and do repairs till 8 or 9pm and go home and sleep. six days a week, there was a church across from me and xmas eve , I was working late and a chap came over , tom says only you would work xmas eve. I did that until I was married, now am losing my wife, wonder if , I will just put the work o holic in over drive or date again,? farm children are bred to work, and feel guiltly if not working . 59lark

As evidenced by your many posts on this topic, you are at the beginning of a new point in your life. In addition to any help you may receive here, are there any friends, or groups near you that specialize in talking about relationship changes? I find that most times, real face-to-face people work better than anything else.

In case that doesn't pan out, or you need more viewpoints, perhaps try one of these links.

https://www.google.com/search?clien...264k1j0i20i264k1j0i10k1j33i21k1.0.F5DXTfcy3z8

These seem to be more specialized to your area of concern.

 

[AmateisGal]

As evidenced by your many posts on this topic, you are at the beginning of a new point in your life. In addition to any help you may receive here, are there any friends, or groups near you that specialize in talking about relationship changes? I find that most times, real face-to-face people work better than anything else.

In case that doesn't pan out, or you need more viewpoints, perhaps try one of these links.

https://www.google.com/search?clien...264k1j0i20i264k1j0i10k1j33i21k1.0.F5DXTfcy3z8

These seem to be more specialized to your area of concern.

As a recent divorcee due to my husband's infidelity, I'm entering into a new period of my life, too, and I highly, HIGHLY recommend getting a good therapist. Mine has literally saved my sanity. I'm starting to come back into my own now (I still have a few less than stellar days, but they're less and less) and for the first time in a LOOOOONG time, I'm excited about the future. I have hope. It's amazing how an abusive relationship can literally suck the life out of you. Glad I got out when I did. My daughter will graduate in May and then it is time for ME!

The support I've received has helped me tremendously. I hope, 59Lark, that you can find people to talk to if you choose not to go to a therapist. Support groups, even online ones (I joined an amazing group dedicated to spouses who've been cheated on) is so, so helpful. You realize you're not alone and that others have gone through exactly what you have. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Yeah. Like this:

 

[3fingers]

"Royal's Poet Of The Organ," because nothing says "office typewriter" like languid organ solos.

One of the great organ players of the Era in my mind was Rosa Rio. She played the organ and piano simultaneously and performed until shortly before her death at I believe...drumroll please.... 107.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Another famous organist was Reginald Dixon, aka "Mr Blackpool" who played the Wurlitzer at the Blackpool Tower Ballroom from 1930 to 1970.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

You know you're getting old when people start saying you've had a long life but that's wrong, the older you get, life becomes shorter.