You know you are getting old when:

[LizzieMaine]

Brooklyn gags were one of the biggest cultural memes in the US during the 1940s, starting with the Dodgers' unsuccessful run for the National League pennant in 1940. Suddenly radio comedians began portraying the borough as the domain of a strange tribe of fanatical, insane, two-fisted working class baseball fans -- hello, Frankie Germano, whattaya say Hilda Chester -- and the fad caught on, fueled by the Dodgers actually winning the pennant in 1941, only to lose their momentum in the World Series due to the Mickey Owen incident. It got so ubiquitous that all a contestant on a quiz program had to do was say that they were from Brooklyn, and the audience would respond with laughter and applause. It didn't help that Leo Durocher, the Dodger manager who was seen as the living embodiment of Brooklyn even though he was actually from Massachusetts, actually became something of a radio comedian himself, appearing frequently as a guest star with the likes of Fred Allen and Jack Benny and playing up the Brooklyn gag to ridiculous extremes. Allen's Brooklyn-baseball parody of "H. M. S. Pinafore," with Durocher singing the lead, was probably the peak of the Brooklyn comedy craze. William Bendix also made a good living for quite a few years playing variations on the stereotypical Brooklyn character.

The meme finally produced a counter-strike in the formation of the "Society For The Prevention Of Disparaging Remarks About Brooklyn," which itself became a big part of the joke.

These sorts of Brooklyn gags were at their peak in the mid to late 1940s, but trickled on into the early fifties until the Dodgers finally won the World Series in 1955. It wasn't funny anymore after the team finally won -- the whole point of the gag was that Brooklyn was the home of Lovable Losers. Chicago Cub fans please take note.

 

[BlueTrain]

My next door neighbor here at work was born in Brooklyn, although they moved to Long Island, which may cancel the distinction. Coincidentally, she and one other employee here both graduated from the same college on Long Island, Hofstra. I tell her she's lost her accent but in her defense, she's live here twice as long as she lived there.

I do not know if there is a Long Island accent, although I realize "Long Island" has a pronunciation that I do not use nor can I even render it properly.

The most famous New York group, the Bowery Boys, formerly the East Side Kids, butchered the language but I have no idea if it was "authentic." I did hear an interview with Leo Gorcey in which he remarked on how much things had changed since he lived there. I guess everybody says that. Huntz Hall's son is an Episcopal priest and was recently the Dean of Washington Cathedral. I have no idea what he sounds like.

 

[Doctor Strange]

It's more like "lawn guyland"!

Mel Blanc famously said he combined Bronx and Brooklyn accents for the voice of Bugs Bunny. I've never seen the dialects of these boroughs treated individually and have no idea how they differ, but apparently HE could hear a difference. OTOH, maybe it's just such a good story that he repeated often.

 

[BlueTrain]

That's sounds about right. But the line I remember best from Bugs Bunny is the one in which Daffy Duck says "I'm going back to Perth Amboy." I hope I'm remembering that right. Sometimes I don't.

 

[Fading Fast]

That's sounds about right. But the line I remember best from Bugs Bunny is the one in which Daffy Duck says "I'm going back to Perth Amboy." I hope I'm remembering that right. Sometimes I don't.

I grew up 20ish miles from Perth Amboy and the town did have its own accent as odd as that seems today. It had more of a Brooklyn tilt to its accent versus the rest of Jersey. I don't remember that Bugs Bunny episode, but would love to see it now.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Radio casting directories of the 1940s listed the dialect specialities of each actor, and "Bronx" and "Brooklyn" are listed seperately, with most performers who did "New York" types listed under both headings -- but some only for one or the other. There is also a third variation listed, "New Yorkese," which contains some performers not listed under either of the borough dialacts.

All that being said, though, academic studies of New York dialect have found no notable differences in accents from borough to borough. So it may just be a case of what's in the ear of the behearer.

Of all the "New York character" types who performed on radio in the Era, probably the most authentic were Ed Gardner and Shirley Booth -- who were married for a time, and co-starred on "Duffy's Tavern." Minnie Pious and John Brown did outstanding "radio Brooklynese" on the Fred Allen show, but neither one of them were actually from New York -- Pious was Russian, and Brown came from England. Gardner and Booth, however, were genuine New Yorkers, and sounded like it. If you really want to know what the early-20th-century New York accent actually sounded like, these are the two to listen to.

 

[Zombie_61]

...Mel Blanc famously said he combined Bronx and Brooklyn accents for the voice of Bugs Bunny. I've never seen the dialects of these boroughs treated individually and have no idea how they differ, but apparently HE could hear a difference. OTOH, maybe it's just such a good story that he repeated often.

When I sold tires back in the mid-80s I briefly worked with a guy who was from somewhere in New York and sounded quite a lot like Bugs Bunny, except his voice was a little lower and not quite as nasal. The trouble was that his demeanor was often more like Yosemite Sam and he came across as too pushy and abrasive for our older and/or more relaxed southern California customers, so the company sent him packing after a few months and more than a few complaint calls to the main office.

 

[Fading Fast]

When I sold tires back in the mid-80s I briefly worked with a guy who was from somewhere in New York and sounded quite a lot like Bugs Bunny, except his voice was a little lower and not quite as nasal. The trouble was that his demeanor was often more like Yosemite Sam and he came across as too pushy and abrasive for our older and/or more relaxed southern California customers, so the company sent him packing after a few months and more than a few complaint calls to the main office.

Far from all New Yorkers and far from all from Brooklyn or the Bronx, but a not insignificant subset did business (especially back in the '80s) in that brusk manner. I'm not defending it, as it's rude, but it was acceptable in some areas and in some stores. You might go to buy a window air conditioner and feel all but attacked:

Me: "I'd like to buy an air conditioner"
Salesman: (sarcastically) "What do you see all around me" (pointing to the ac units in boxes nearby)
Me: "Yes, um, but I was hoping you could help me get the right one"
SM: (annoyed) "What size is your room?"
Me: "about 11X15"
SM: (still annoyed) "Here, this one"
Me: "Can you tell me about it - why that one?
SM: (ready to shoot me) "It's the right size for your room - you going to buy it or not?"

And on it went.

Most of that style of "salesman" has gone away; although, I will still run into it once in awhile in an old store, tucked away somewhere.

 

[tonyb]

Far from all New Yorkers and far from all from Brooklyn or the Bronx, but a not insignificant subset did business (especially back in the '80s) in that brusk manner. I'm not defending it, as it's rude, but it was acceptable in some areas and in some stores. You might go to buy a window air conditioner and feel all but attacked:

Me: "I'd like to buy an air conditioner"
Salesman: (sarcastically) "What do you see all around me" (pointing to the ac units in boxes nearby)
Me: "Yes, um, but I was hoping you could help me get the right one"
SM: (annoyed) "What size is your room?"
Me: "about 11X15"
SM: (still annoyed) "Here, this one"
Me: "Can you tell me about it - why that one?
SM: (ready to shoot me) "It's the right size for your room - you going to buy it or not?"

And on it went.

Most of that style of "salesman" has gone away; although, I will still run into it once in awhile in an old store, tucked away somewhere.

One undeniably positive attribute of a more-or-less free enterprise system is that the buyer generally has far greater choice.

I learned quite some time ago that you rarely get a good price on an item you can't walk away from. It's harder to walk away from the only store in town, comrades.

 

[Fading Fast]

One undeniably positive attribute of a more-or-less free enterprise system is that the buyer generally has far greater choice.

I learned quite some time ago that you rarely get a good price on an item you can't walk away from. It's harder to walk away from the only store in town, comrades.

No question. That's why you have to try to create the appearance of competition as a buyer even if none really exists. If it's the only store in town, you talk about going to another town (know the store's name - to make it more credible) as you tell the salesperson that you "go there regularly to see your aunt / a friend, etc" (to make it even more credible). The web, clearly, has made this so much easier - which is why so many things cost less on-line (and that, in a good feedback loop for the consumer, is driving down prices in stores).

 

[Zombie_61]

Far from all New Yorkers and far from all from Brooklyn or the Bronx, but a not insignificant subset did business (especially back in the '80s) in that brusk manner. I'm not defending it, as it's rude, but it was acceptable in some areas and in some stores...

He and I usually worked different shifts so I really didn't have the opportunity to get to know him very well, but I got the impression that he had issues controlling his temper (and perhaps his ego) that usually seemed to get the better of him if a customer questioned his recommendations. I don't think it was a "sales tactic" or had anything to do with him being from New York, it was just who he was as an individual at that point in his life--a guy with a "short fuse".

No question. That's why you have to try to create the appearance of competition as a buyer even if none really exists. If it's the only store in town, you talk about going to another town (know the store's name - to make it more credible) as you tell the salesperson that you "go there regularly to see your aunt / a friend, etc" (to make it even more credible)...

I had a number of customers try that when I was selling tires. I'd give them the quote for the tires or repairs they needed, and they'd say, "That much? I can go to 'fill in the blank' and get it for 'lesser amount'." And I'd tell them, "Then you should go there, because I can't beat that price." Which was true, and they usually knew it, but by then they had painted themselves into a corner.

 

[BlueTrain]

Where I'm from, at one time, there existed the institution of the company store. You lived in company-owned housing, shopped at the company store and probably walked to work at the mine. You may have even been paid in company script. That was free-enterprise, too.

 

[Fading Fast]

He and I usually worked different shifts so I really didn't have the opportunity to get to know him very well, but I got the impression that he had issues controlling his temper (and perhaps his ego) that usually seemed to get the better of him if a customer questioned his recommendations. I don't think it was a "sales tactic" or had anything to do with him being from New York, it was just who he was as an individual at that point in his life--a guy with a "short fuse".

I had a number of customers try that when I was selling tires. I'd give them the quote for the tires or repairs they needed, and they'd say, "That much? I can go to 'fill in the blank' and get it for 'lesser amount'." And I'd tell them, "Then you should go there, because I can't beat that price." Which was true, and they usually knew it, but by then they had painted themselves into a corner.

Never lie - as salesman or customer (I've been both) as it will come out and kill your credibility. But if you do your homework and know the truth, you can represent that you'd go to a store that you might not really want to. Never lie, it's bad for your character and bad strategy.

 

[tonyb]

Never lie - as salesman or customer (I've been both) as it will come out and kill your credibility. But if you do your homework and know the truth, you can represent that you'd go to a store that you might not really want to. Never lie, it's bad for your character and bad strategy.

I just yesterday bought a new bed. Wasn't cheap, but it was a helluva lot less costly than it might have been had I not shopped around and done my homework. I might have saved a few bucks had I bought online, but I went with a local retailer whose salesman gave me the straight dope on markup and commissions (which was essentially what I had already read from a couple of reliable sources) and why the adjustable base he sells for less than half what most other stores carry probably isn't as good as those higher priced offerings but that seeing how we wouldn't have kids using it as a trampoline or otherwise abusing it it was more than adequate to our purposes. And they deliver and set up and take away the old bed.

I patronize Les Schwab for tires because their prices are competitive and they don't upsell and they repair tires free, provided the tires are repairable to a street-legal condition. I was pleased to see the company expand into Colorado about when I relocated here.

 

[GHT]

I should also mention that the biggest adventure I ever had overseas was renting (hiring!) a vehicle with a six-speed manual transmission (gearbox) with right-hand drive in the U.K. The first couple hundred yards (meters) were tricky. After that I managed okay. Changing gears wasn't that hard, although steering with just the right hand seemed strangely difficult. But I never got used to that many gears. After all, we weren't towing a trailer (caravan).

Well done you, for you not only mastered sitting on the 'wrong' side of the car, driving on the wrong side of the road, you also remembered that when turning left at a traffic light, you must wait until it goes green. When I sat at a red light, waiting to turn right, in The States, first time I drove there, I had this cacophony of car horns blaring at me.
You must have also encountered one or two of our traffic roundabouts, to have negotiated them without incident, deserves a nomination for a safe driving medal. The simple rule is, you give way to the traffic on the roundabout. Well over 75% of British drivers get this wrong. Our roundabouts are akin to your four way stop signs, they really blow me away, talk about who goes first, it's more a case of traffic anarchy.

 

[BlueTrain]

I did have a bit of trouble with roundabouts. That's where people honked at me. There are more of them being built over here now. But Washington, D.C., laid out by a Frenchman a long time ago, has a number of roundabouts, which we give the quaint name of "traffic circles" to instead. Some are complicated, though, and it helps to know exactly where you're going. Basically the street system is a star pattern overlaid on a pattern of regular streets intersecting at right angles. Personally I find it an easy city to get around in, at least on weekends, but I've lived here longer than I have anywhere else, almost 40 years.

I think four-way stops at intersections as a little better than intersections with traffic signals. Drivers around here are aggressive and routinely run red lights and the last one through the intersection will be the fastest car on the street. Yet I see almost no accidents at intersections. It's a simple matter of knowing the rules of the road, which unfortunately not the ones in the driver's manual.

 

[LizzieMaine]

In New England, we call them "rotaries," and we race to see who can enter them first.

 

[2jakes]

....,When I sat at a red light, waiting to turn right, in The States, first time I drove there, I had this cacophony of car horns blaring at me.

Your mistake was in signaling your intentions to the healots that you
were going to turn right.
Without the signaling, they wouldn't
have known whether you were heading
straight or turning right and you wouldn't
have received a plethora of horns honking at you when the signal light was
red.

Having said this, if they still applied the horn while waiting, they now are eligible to receive the universal hand signal.

In the States with the wheel being on the left side, lt is most convenient to use
the left hand.
Thus with the mid finger aim straight up, waving ever so proudly to the heavens for all the healots to know that they can
go and kiss my ever-loving "grits"!

 

[scottyrocks]

I have no issues with roundabouts. I give way to traffic already in them.

What I did have an issue with were roundabouts in England. Going in from the 'wrong' side of the road, in the opposite direction was almost more than I could handle. I had quite a few cars line up behind me the first couple of times I did it.

 

[2jakes]

Life's too short to rush, especially when
driving.
I prefer to let them go first on their
hurried paths on those roads with
stop signs.
I rather feel sorry for these healots
who seem to have the painful look of
rushing to go to the potty!