You know you are getting old when:

[jamespowers]

That must've been designed by the same mental wonder who designed our new digital projection system.

Tech: I need you to enter this diagnostic code and send me the report.

Me: I can't get the thing to boot up.

Tech: Ja (he's German), go to the diagnostic menu and enter the code and send me the report.

Me: Yeah, I heard you, I can't get the thing to boot up.

Tech: Ja, enter the diagnostic code and get me the report.

(ad infinitum)

Well, when Ford bought Jaguar many years ago, there was a meeting of designers and they threw up the electrical schematics of the car. Stunned silence. “You have got to be kidding! Who designed this? Rube Goldberg?!” They scrapped the whole thing and started over---correctly.
Same as your projection system. They just haven’t gotten to that point yet.

 

[Stanley Doble]

All of those had the same problems. They were good for about two weeks out of the month. The Triumphs were the worst but Austin was second worst.
If you ever had to trace down an electrical problem in one of those beasts you know what a nightmare they were.Right down to the genius who decided it was a good idea to mount the battery under the dash so it could leak on your wool carpets.:doh:
I won’t even mention the forever oil leak problems they had.
Even the early 90s Jags had a wiring mess.A friend of mine was trying to chase down why the trunk wouldn’t open but he found he had to go through four fuse boxes to find the right one to replace. The fuse for it was in the trunk that wouldn't open. lol lol
I remember those too well. :doh:

I owned a number of English cars when they were cheap used cars. For one thing, they were more popular in Canada and we got certain makes and models that were never sold in the US.

They had a lot to offer but they did not move with the times. As other cars got better, cheaper and more reliable they got worse, more expensive and less reliable. It was as if the government, unions and management all got together to run the whole industry into the ground.

This is not fantasy. I have read what I could find on the history of the English motor industry and its decline. The Callahan government, the one before Thatcher, has admitted that in private they regarded themselves as presiding over the liquidation of what was left of Great Britain. It was as if they were squatting in a ruined mansion , everything of value had already been sold or pawned, and they were ripping the plumbing and wiring out of the walls and burning the furniture to survive.

The auto industry and motorcycle industry was plundered, run into the ground and abandoned. In 1947 Austin brought out their new A40 model with independent front suspension, OHV 4 cylinder, and what was at the time a thoroughly modern design.

30 years later they were making the Austin Marina with the same engine, a Morris suspension and transmission of about the same date, and trying to sell these clunkers against the Datsun 510. They spent just enough to come up with a new body, the rest of the car was made of 30 year old parts made on 50 year old machines. In that year, at an auto show, I saw a Marina 4 door with 4 cylinder engine, auto trans, nicely equipped, beside a Ford Maverick 4 door with 6 cylinder engine, auto trans, and similar equipment. The Maverick was 50% bigger, similar in design technology, and sold for about the same price.

In 1950, English car makers had 90% of the import car market in North America. They could have been as successful as the European and Japanese makers if they had made the effort and moved with the times but they did not.

You are perfectly right, by the sixties, and certainly by the seventies, English cars were pathetic rubbish. By the eighties even the English wouldn't buy them. But it didn't have to be that way.

 

[jamespowers]

Where do you see the word reliable?

Oh, now I see the demarcation point. lol lol

 

[jamespowers]

I owned a number of English cars when they were cheap used cars. For one thing, they were more popular in Canada and we got certain makes and models that were never sold in the US.

They had a lot to offer but they did not move with the times. As other cars got better, cheaper and more reliable they got worse, more expensive and less reliable. It was as if the government, unions and management all got together to run the whole industry into the ground.

This is not fantasy. I have read what I could find on the history of the English motor industry and its decline. The Callahan government, the one before Thatcher, has admitted that in private they regarded themselves as presiding over the liquidation of what was left of Great Britain. It was as if they were living in a ruined mansion, everything of value had already been sold or pawned, and they were ripping the plumbing and wiring out of the walls and burning the furniture to survive.

The auto industry and motorcycle industry was plundered, run into the ground and abandoned. In 1947 Austin brought out their new A40 model with independent front suspension, OHV 4 cylinder, and what was at the time a thoroughly modern design.

30 years later they were making the Austin Marina with the same engine, a Morris suspension and transmission of about the same date, and trying to sell these clunkers against the Datsun 510. In that year, at an auto show, I saw a Marina 4 door with 4 cylinder engine, auto trans, nicely equipped, beside a Ford Maverick 4 door with 6 cylinder engine, auto trans, and similar equipment. The Maverick was 50% bigger, similar in design technology, and sold for about the same price.

In 1950, English car makers had 90% of the import car market in North America. They could have been as successful as the European and Japanese makers if they had made the effort and moved with the times but they did not.

You are perfectly right, by the sixties, and certainly by the seventies, English cars were pathetic rubbish. By the eighties even the English wouldn't buy them. But it didn't have to be that way.

Yes, the motorcycle industry failure was a real mess. I still have a 1958 Super Rocket and a few Bantams. One Bantam actually doesn’t leak oil like a sieve. I have no idea why they let everything run down like that. Even here we have saved Chrysler and GM at public expense.
The one car I will take, with its multitude of problems----including the battery---is the XK120. You can send me one.

 

[Stanley Doble]

In other words if you never lusted after an English sports car or luxury car, you just aren't old enough to remember when they made cars worth lusting after.

 

[jamespowers]

In other words if you never lusted after an English sports car or luxury car, you just aren't old enough to remember when they made cars worth lusting after.

I have had them. It is just they leave a bad taste in your mouth when they cost you more than a mistress.

 

[Stanley Doble]

"I have no idea why they let everything run down like that."

It was as if the whole country collectively decided to stop working and spend their capital. I don't know that it happened all at once. I think it began with the Labor governments in the twenties, the unionist idea that your employer is your enemy and victory means getting all the money you can while contributing nothing, and sabotaging your own work place in your spare time. The idea that capitalism is evil and profits are wrong. Again and again you see government policies aimed at squeezing the private sector with no idea that they were killing the goose that laid the golden eggs. Unions that seemed determined to wreck the company they worked for. And, in the end, management that had to make the best of a bad job and find some way to keep going for one more year, without the resources to replace plant and machinery or develop new products.

By the seventies economists were calling it 'the English disease' and wondering where it would all end, and if there was any way to cure it. Thatcher had a go but it turned out to be too late.

Before you laugh or sneer, America went the same way starting in the sixties and seventies and has now reached a point similar to where England was 40 years ago.

 

[Zombie_61]

...30 years later they were making the Austin Marina with the same engine, a Morris suspension and transmission of about the same date, and trying to sell these clunkers against the Datsun 510. They spent just enough to come up with a new body, the rest of the car was made of 30 year old parts made on 50 year old machines...

This reminds me of the Boeing/McDonnell Douglas merger in 1997. The Powers-That-Be at Boeing were shocked to discover McDonnell Douglas was still building it's aircraft the way they had during World War II, and had made few efforts to modernize the assembly process.

 

[Stearmen]

"I have no idea why they let everything run down like that."

It was as if the whole country collectively decided to stop working and spend their capital. I don't know that it happened all at once. I think it began with the Labor governments in the twenties, the unionist idea that your employer is your enemy and victory means getting all the money you can while contributing nothing, and sabotaging your own work place in your spare time. The idea that capitalism is evil and profits are wrong. Again and again you see government policies aimed at squeezing the private sector with no idea that they were killing the goose that laid the golden eggs. Unions that seemed determined to wreck the company they worked for. And, in the end, management that had to make the best of a bad job and find some way to keep going for one more year, without the resources to replace plant and machinery or develop new products.

By the seventies economists were calling it 'the English disease' and wondering where it would all end, and if there was any way to cure it. Thatcher had a go but it turned out to be too late.

Before you laugh or sneer, America went the same way starting in the sixties and seventies and has now reached a point similar to where England was 40 years ago.

In fairness, it was not just the unions that killed the British motorcycle industry, the owners were already planting the seeds back in the 50s. Edward Turner, would not allow the engineers to build the Trident, which could have been out long before Honda and their magnificent 750 Four. They also had plans for modern engines, split horizontally, no oil leaks, all were killed in favor of 1950s engines. To top it off, BSA waisted money on Craig Vetter and his chopper, when they should have hired another American Ray Hensley of Sonic Weld Track Master fame to build a proper Oil In The Frame. The only thing that saved Triumph was the government, since BSA owned Triumph, they saw which one needed to go. The whole industry basically died in 1972, Norton did some spasms until 1975, and Triumph limped on Dead Man Walking until 1983. Incidentally, I knew both Ray and Craig, in a past life.

 

[Stanley Doble]

The English motorcycle industry was behind the 8 ball by 1960 if not earlier. They were already overtaken by European and Japanese competition although it was not really obvious until Honda brought out their 450 twin in, what was it, 1966?

I was a fan and owner of English motorcycles as a teenager in the sixties and seventies but all my friends preferred Japanese bikes. Preferred is not really a strong enough word. They never looked at an English bike or thought of buying one.

 

[GHT]

The last two pages have been painful reading. All of it true, I lived through it. but today is worth celebrating. We bought the car. An MG YB, problem is, it's platform and running gear is based on the TD. Oh well, at least I can sit in it in the garage, grab the steering wheel and make brum-brum noises. Looks like taking it out will have to be on the back of a trailer, towed by, of all things, a Mercedes.

And the celebration? We walked up the aisle 46 years ago today.

 

[Gregg Axley]

Happy Anniversary GHT!!!:eusa_clap

Good luck with the car.
Your method (making the brum brum noises) would be the most reliable, fuel efficient way to drive an MG.
Of course the scenery wouldn't change, unless your wife is a good sport and wants to run by with posters of pictures.

 

[gear-guy]

Happy Anniversary GHT. An amazing feat. I'm glad you're not too old to remember the date. :eusa_doh:

 

[GHT]

Happy Anniversary GHT!!!:eusa_clap
Good luck with the car.
Your method (making the brum brum noises) would be the most reliable, fuel efficient way to drive an MG.
Of course the scenery wouldn't change, unless your wife is a good sport and wants to run by with posters of pictures.

Brilliant::rofl:

Happy Anniversary GHT. An amazing feat. I'm glad you're not too old to remember the date. :eusa_doh:

Thanks guys, ah remembering the date, forgetting is a certain cause for not getting my papers renewed.

 

[jamespowers]

Happy Anniversary GHT!!!:eusa_clap

Good luck with the car.
Your method (making the brum brum noises) would be the most reliable, fuel efficient way to drive an MG.
Of course the scenery wouldn't change, unless your wife is a good sport and wants to run by with posters of pictures.

Seconded.

Man, I wish I had thought of that when I owned one of those machines. I could have thrown away the engine and saved myself a ton of money.

 

[Stearmen]

The last two pages have been painful reading. All of it true, I lived through it. but today is worth celebrating. We bought the car. An MG YB, problem is, it's platform and running gear is based on the TD. Oh well, at least I can sit in it in the garage, grab the steering wheel and make brum-brum noises. Looks like taking it out will have to be on the back of a trailer, towed by, of all things, a Mercedes.

And the celebration? We walked up the aisle 46 years ago today.

Based on an MGTD you say? then, just dump a Chrysler Hemi in it, and forget about handling!

 

[HoosierDaddy]

HoleyMoley...!!

 

[jamespowers]

Based on an MGTD you say? then, just dump a Chrysler Hemi in it, and forget about handling!

Now THAT would be cool. Way faster and way more reliable at the same time. Problem solved.

 

[LuvMyMan]

The last two pages have been painful reading. All of it true, I lived through it. but today is worth celebrating. We bought the car. An MG YB, problem is, it's platform and running gear is based on the TD. Oh well, at least I can sit in it in the garage, grab the steering wheel and make brum-brum noises. Looks like taking it out will have to be on the back of a trailer, towed by, of all things, a Mercedes.

And the celebration? We walked up the aisle 46 years ago today.

My Husband and I went through a time when we purchased an old "Bug Eye" sprite. Parts for it were not too hard to find, but what a royal pain to get everything just right and then for it to actually run. Doing the complete restoration was very expensive in a tally of what was all spent, including the body work and a nice factory correct paint job. It was a real fun little car to drive, until it tested some laws of physics, friction (the tires and road surface), momentum (moving along at about 70 M.P.H. on a downhill mountain road), and a very large old oak tree located close to the side of the road. The tree won!

 

[LuvMyMan]

HoleyMoley...!!

+1 on that. All engine and very little car!