yet another Gary White....

[gcollins]

Hi Folks:

G here, classic newby, but a long time hat fanatic. Nice to meet you all (see the hat tip?). Truly appreciate how nutty this whole subculture is and our commitment to it...I have spent years on a forum specific to 19th century wooden flutes, today used for Irish music we play. Just goes to show you what crazy things happen after 15 years living in China does for the pastiche of cultures.

Anyway...I've done some searching before I post: Optimo has major respect, Gladhatter is an outcast, and Gary White is the imposter of the Indy...that's kind of a uneducated summary.

But about Gary White....does the guy make a good hat or what? The majority here seem to adore the Optimo hat blend (with the nutria), but for a 100% beaver...is GW an imposter of the great custom hat or what?

Thanks,
G

 

[Rundquist]

Gary makes a good hat and is a gentleman to deal with. Gary has a lot of vintage felt too. That would be the big draw in going to him. Unfortunately you'd really need to visit him in Buffalo to take full advantage of what he's got in the back room. Optimo is a safe bet no matter what. Cheers

 

[SHARPETOYS]

I would have to second Rundquist on Optimo hats. I have a few and i think they are the best "modern" fur felt hats made right now. They strive to make a fur felt hat like they were made back in the 20's and 30's. My dealings with Optimo has been nothing but a postive experience. If i ever get to New York i will call on Gary White.

 

[Fedora]

You got a couple of opinions, here's mine. If I were in the market for a new hat, any of the mentioned hatters will sell you a superior product. If I had to pick which hat is the best I would have to say the Gladhatter sterling beaver. I have owned hats from all 3 hatters. No one else has. All 3 make custom hats the way they did in the old days. All use high quality material, although from my experience Optimo and GH are above White. Fedora

 

[Panamabob]

Forgive my ignorance, but does the gladhatter make his own hats?

 

[Zane]

G here, classic newby, but a long time hat fanatic. Nice to meet you all (see the hat tip?). Truly appreciate how nutty this whole subculture is and our commitment to it...I have spent years on a forum specific to 19th century wooden flutes, today used for Irish music we play. Just goes to show you what crazy things happen after 15 years living in China does for the pastiche of cultures.

Anyway...I've done some searching before I post: Optimo has major respect, Gladhatter is an outcast, and Gary White is the imposter of the Indy...that's kind of a uneducated summary.

But about Gary White....does the guy make a good hat or what? The majority here seem to adore the Optimo hat blend (with the nutria), but for a 100% beaver...is GW an imposter of the great custom hat or what?
___________________________________________________

Hi GColins, It is nice to meet you as well. I cannot imagine living in China but I sure can understand your kind of music. I Wish you could hear Dornell Pratt on her Irish CD doing the old ballads in the Irish tradition and voice.

Sure hope you do not get disillusioned and not select a hat that is right for you along with a hatter that is also right for you.

I wish to God that I had better speaking and writing skills so I could really get across 25 years of learning into words. Sad truth is I do not and then the sadder truth is that I fear if I told you all I knew about all the hatters I know of and their vintage furs and unusual blends and such that I too would become an outcast. I understand Mr. White is a fine hatter and some seem to respect him on the forums and others seem to have has less favorable dealings with him or so their story goes. I would advise you to talk with him directly and get his side of any story he has to tell if you think he will be your potential hatter.

I can only tell you he has a colorful repetition in the back room and alleys of the hat trade and seems to have some unique request for unique fur bodies over past as has Optimo. That said it does not make either of them a bad hatter just because they seek a monopoly of certain blends of fur felts to my way of thinking makes them a good potential business person. After all look at Bill gates and how he has blessed the world with his fine software and I am eternally grateful to him while others seem to hate the man or so they profess.

I used to say I wanted to see a movie or some other thing and my uncle would tell me no and I would say but every body is doing it. Big mistake !!! His reply was always same, If every one is doing it then it probably is not good.

I am not sure that applies to purchasing a hat at all. I can tell you emphatically that every hat I have seen that folks say they got from Optimo looks really nice. The few I have seen from Gary white looked very good as well. Art on the lounge here , I under stand is making hats as well now. PanamaBob sure produces a fine looking straw hat and with arts help blocking them art just masterful.

PanamaBob also likes to imply in public and blatantly states in private that I am Gladhatter and many others on here seem to think he may be correct. I am hesitant to recommend Gladhatter on the forums due to the fact so many have taken issue with his past behavior and seem to think the lack of manners on a forum or his strong beliefs toward their favorite hatters permanently has divided them against the Gladhatter. I honestly do not know what blend Optimo or Gary White use in their hats and what ever it's is none of my business.

What I do know is certain blends make for the potential of a good hat while other blends do not . Nutria and beaver blends make a very fine combination for a western hat but I do not care if every hat company in the entire known world uses any part of nutria in a fedora hat , then it is not going to be a good as hat as it could be with out the Nutria. Beaver and Rabbit make a fine blend if properly blended but Nutria is simply too course a hair and far too fast setting to make a good as a fedora as any blend properly done without it.

In the end you may be like a lot of folks on here and want a nutria blend hat and if so I think the Optimo hat company makes about a fine looking hat as you will find.

Panamabob, I always heard ignorance is bliss and from what I read about you and your life you are about a blissful person as ever come along so no need to ask forgiveness . What you need to do instead is ask Gladhatter if he makes his own hats and not ask folks that cannot possibly know. I understand your humanitarian deeds and know you are a fine of a human being as ever was on the face of the earth and I will encourage you to stop making folks wonder about your person with such post that are purposefully said to degrade a fine man that makes fine hats and pleases every customer he has on any forum to the point they are ecstatic about not only his product but also his service and fair treatment of them.

G, I cannot in good conscience recommend you to buy a hat from Gladhatter any more than I could from Gary White or Optimo hat Company. What I can do is tell you what I know of the hatter and how he will work with you on every step of your custom hand made hat from selecting a style, color, conformer fit and then if you desire take a picture tutorial of each and every step of making your hat and will go so far as to remove any doubt that he will even send you your body for pre inspection and allow you to mark it with your private mark and then at each stage daily send you photos of the progress an each one showing you mark and his face holding your hat as it is progressing. He will finally give you a life time guarantee that your hat will last your natural life under normal wear and not fail due to any material or workmanship defect. Now I cannot tell you this about other hatters as I do not know what they can or cannot do.

I give you the same advise about the hatter I know best as I do about the ones that I know least and that is contact the hatter and allow him to make any impression he will on you.

I remain puzzled on this and other forums why that so many people have so many bad things to say about Gladhatter that have never owned one of his hats and yet every single person that does own one has noting but the best reviews of the hat and the person.

I find myself almost compelled to defend the hatter but not the person as he is his own man.

G, I am not sure if you want a truly custom hand made hat made by a quality hatter or you prefer a small commercial hatter to produce you a hat they offer. You are the man to make those choices but I think it only fair to allow you as much information as possible to base you decision on.

Why folks ever endorse one hatter over an other and do not choose to just give you known facts and leave out opinions is still a mystery to me. I suppose in some cases they have an axe to grind with the one they refuse to give info on or do not have it to give and in other cases they may have a vested interest in the out come of your decision.

I personally hope the gladhatter sells so many hats that he has to hire me to help make them but in truth I do not hope him any thing but a harmonious life that money may not bring to him at all and maybe that situation is not to ever be again and all for some reason that only the universe can know.

G, I hope you make the decision that best suits you when selecting your hatter and hat and that both are a decision you can smile about till deaths gloomy day removes you from the presence of all.

If you need any information from about hats hatter , good music or any thing I may learn about to share or have any thing to share with me, then please post a message publicly or send me a private message in the PM.

Wishing you the warmest welcome, I am.

James Zane Foggs

 

[Canadave]

Originally posted by Rundquist
...you'd really need to visit him in Buffalo to take full advantage of what he's got in the back room.

Buffalo!!?? You said the magic word. I'm only about a 2 hour drive from there...(10 hours from Optimo in Chicago). I may have to make the trip!

I checked him out on the web for contact info, and found this tidbit;

"Size is measured using a dressmaker's tape anchored at mid-forehead and pulled snugly around the head. The resulting number of inches is then divided by Pi (3.1428) to calculate the hat size. For example, a measurement of 22?Ǭæ inches results in a hat size of 7?Ǭº."

I've never seen reference to this before...is it common knowledge?

David

PS Welcome, gcollins!!!

 

[Zane]

Canadave, It is fairly common knowledge about how to measure for head size but it is also some what misleading for many people. Do not misunderstand, Mr. White is not intentionally misleading any one and it is a common way to address hat sizing. It would work extremely well if all folks had a perfect round head and almost as well if all were regular oval as most hat blocks are in regular oval. There are some companies that request a simple picture or 2 photos of side and front or 3 and a rear. These can be some helpful but many times it is just an another gimmick to make a commercially stamped out hat to seem custom or customized. The only true way to et a hat that is going to fit is to get an accurate head shape and back it up with a head size and then if you have pictures it will or can help verify what the conformer says.

I recall blocking a bowler one time, and it was for a Big head guy as well he said he was 7 3/4 and his measure shoed him just between 7 5/8 and 7 3/4. He did not use the conformer correctly and sure enough the hat came out 7 3/4 and it was sent to him and he returned it with clear pictures of his head and a measure he had a friend to help him get. The measure was then 7 5/8 but he was a triple long oval. This is a rare block and the only time I ever used it at all. The final hat fit him perfectly as far as I know and a good customer was created . Size does matter but shape matters just as much and probably more. While a 7 3/4 was too small a 7 5/8 was just right . Now I hope that makes sense to all readers. If he had worn that hat till it eventually conformed to his head that stiff bowler would have been hopelessly misshapen and a terrible mess. I have seen some folks find a perfect fitting hat and then measure it inside side to side and front to rear and give their shape this way. I do not endorse this method for extreme accuracy but it is better than a simple circular measure of a oblong or more than oblong shape.

 

[gcollins]

Zane and folks:

Thanks for the thoughful replies. You're a live bunch, so I'll hang for while at the Lounge.

Always appreciate opinions--that's all a man can truly offer when talking about something that has a sum greater than its parts.

Regards,
G

 

[Zane]

Thank you G and please enjoy your stay.



Andykev, I thank you for posting Myers link but I somehow lost your post of it and will just thank you here and hope you get it.
I still have not come to grips with how computers work exactly and get lost a lot.

 

[Andykev]

Its over here.

Meyer the hatter, topic

 

[Canadave]

Originally posted by Canadave
The resulting number of inches is then divided by Pi (3.1428) to calculate the hat size.

This is the part I found interesting...did everyone know this?

David

 

[Panamabob]

Zane, please keep the blasting to personal mails or emails. I've only asked whether Charlie blocks his own hats.

My conscience is very clean.

Shuffle off to Buffalo or Idaho?

 

[gcollins]

Nice to see a little attitude and tension around here. Oh man...!

Anyway I'll post a pic of my awesome new Brent Black when I have a chance to take a photo. Class, pure class.

 

[Panamabob]

You want to see some tension? Tell me what you paid Black and I'll tell you what we'd sell an unblocked body for....maybe.:rage:

 

[gcollins]

Hi Bob:

You're right on! But that's not remotely enough tension...

Ever been to Korea or Japan and wonder why the ladies spend so much money on real louis vuitton bags when they can buy class A copies elsewhere for a fraction of the price? Or the Chinese going to Hong Kong and going for the Tiffany rings (paid in RMB cash, mind you) when they could get the same quality from the back alley? Or the guy who goes to a custom hatter to get a sterling belly beaver fedora when he still could get a truly awesome $400 fedora from Gary White or Optimo?

PanamaBob, they pay the price because they can. That's a different marketplace with different values. That's the luxury industry, an industry where people buy things not because they need them or search for the value stock, but because they want them. The same reason why people collect over 20 hats, when all they need are 2 or 3 for different seasons or clothing styles.

It is the buddhist first principle that is the enemy: desire.

Regards,
G

 

[Panamabob]

Last time I checked a Montecristi was a Montecristi. So, do people buy the hat because it has someone's name on it or do they buy the hat because it is from Montecristi?

 

[Zane]

Hey G, I certainly would love to see a post with a picture of the Brent Black hat. I do not think a great lot of people on here care for Mr. Black. I do not know him but understand he makes some of the finest hats but has a price tag that many do not enjoy.

About tension , I am very sorry that my factual reporting of these continued subtle hints and private messages alarms the person doing them .

I will repeat if I understand it correctly , PanamaBob does a lot of humanitarian work with the proceeds from his endeavors. This man to date seems to have delivered some really fine hat bodies to be blocked here in USA.

I remain lost as to why he considers my promoting him and his product as "Blasting" but to be clear to all readers, if my kinds words of this mans good deeds is in any way misunderstood, please let me take this opportunity to correct that . If my reporting his shared beliefs that I am some person other than myself considered blasting then I will simply ignore such postings in future as they certainly cannot have any valued outcome.

I can understand that everyone may have their favorite hatters and favorite hats and many will disagree and I am sure you will see plenty of tension accordingly. I certainly hope you can see in the future (or not see maybe a better word), tensions between gentlemen addressed with a little tack and diplomacy.

I will defer you to read the many post by Art, AndyKev,MK, Fedora, Michaelson, Zohar and really the entire forum less a couple people here and you will find that each and ever one may disagree at times and tension may exist but you will not see any flagrant displays of public indecency from any of the aforementioned.

I am very sorry that you had to experience the less than appropriate response that some folks insist on making and that do not promote harmony nor provide any helpful content.

I would like to add that while Panamabob is appreciated among many here for delivering hat bodies at what they consider affordable pricing, there should always be room for other hatters wares to be mentioned and show as well as some people do not shop price and prefer to pay a premium price for a premium product and due to their ability and desire to do so should not be ridiculed for it.

From what I understand Mr. Black has paid his dues and is a long time established business that caters to the folks that seek reputation, quality and a completely finished product from a one stop shop.

I find it a horrible atrocity when folks can only promote their product and service at the expense of another. While a fair comparison of knowledge person of a vendor they have dealt with directly should always be a welcome addition to such a valuable forum to assault the character of a hatter for his prices alone is not any fair comparison.

I should surly hope you are not ostracized for your desire to buy the finest headwear you feel fits your desire and budget. We all publicly report we all desire to see the hat business return to its former glory on such forums , yet it seems when any new hatter that appears or is mentioned if the hatter does not first get the endorsement of a select few, then he will find him self in less than favorable conditions.

I have not seen much posted on Mr. Brent Black here or his hats and I think it would be refreshing to have a honest review of his product from people that have dealt with him or own his product or at least has a copy of it in hand .

While I am more than certain you, need not be reminded by me that you need not reveal cost for any item as it cannot possibly reflect the quality of the product or service, I almost fell I need to apologize for such a question as it was posed.

I have a few complexes and one of them is trying to save people from themselves when I see them making self destructive statements. I truly would be a bridge builder if I had the words to do so with but I must defer to folks like ART that seems to know the perfect words for such situations and is always a gentleman.

Art I sure wish or hope you may have opportunity to read some of this and suggest a way to avoid such frictions as I have plead privately and publicly already to no avail.

Can any one of you longer term folks or moderators or such please assist me in this matter. I would like to make it known I have no animosity toward Panamabob in any way shape nor form and I hope that some one will please speak to him and second my request to him to please stop his repeated attempts to antagonize me for what ever reason he seems to fell justified in so doing. I want it to be known that I would like to hold him and all others here in highest regard and I am asking help from any and all to do this. If I am doing something to provoke this man to continue in his activities then I will ask some one please help me instead of him.

I have been told folks do not like a ruckus on here and I certainly do not want a ruckus here or any where else and I will ask that some one please intercede before this comes to a ruckus and follow it by saying it will not be a ruckus from me as I can choose to ignore such post but prefer to have harmony and be able to respond kindly to all post.

ANY ONE PLEASE HELP !!!!

 

[Zane]

G, I see our post crossed as it takes me an hour to put one to gather. I thank you for so eloquently expressing what I was attempting to do.

I guess I will neither need to try to defend the actions of any that choose to post on here as all will be seen as to what they are and hopefully over looked if in appropriate.

G, I totally concur with your reasoning and while I have been dirt poor and uneducated all my life I still buy the best tools money can buy and simply save till I can get them. I own a large assortment of Makita building tools as I think they are the best . I can get a skil saw at any hardware, but I prefer to spend 10 times as much to get a Makita as I know it will not only serve me well for many years but also will show a bit of prestige but in the end it is just what I really want and I believe in paying for what I want. That is not to say I would not purchase the same tool if it was on 50% off sale as I would enjoy that even more.

 

[MK]

Zane,

I can't speak for everyone else.....but there is no way I am going to read your posts if you make them that long. I have skipped over the past 4 or 5 due to length. My guess is that others are doing the same.

P.S.

Your tipping your hand Charlie.