WWII: What was the big deal?

[Corto]

Postscript

Well. My World War Two unit has drawn to a close.
Once again, I'd like to extend my thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. You really gave me some great ideas, which I did my best to incorporate into the class.

The results are mixed. Teaching this sort of thing is a fight against time, and unfortunately there were a couple of areas that I had to blow through quickly. (The PTO, for example.)

But, on the whole there were a couple of light bulbs that got turned on. (Oddly, on their unit test, the one thing that the majority of the students understood was the concept of blitzkrieg and what "centers of gravity" are in a military context.)

To my European friends, I can proudly report that I was successful in imparting the fact that the war didn't start in 1941. (And that the Russians were more than just an incidental part of the war- which is how I was taught as an adolescent in the mid-1980's...)

So, now it's off to the Cold War.

Thanks again Fedora Loungers.

 

[Lincsong]

Excellent posts by everyone.:eusa_clap I'm a little late to the game but I'll put in my two cents; don't downplay the Japanese. Too often some people want to downplay them. Don't. Treat the Japanese as you would treat the Germans.

 

[carebear]

When do we start the "Cold War curriculum" thread?

 

[dhermann1]

Cold War

Good question. Having just finished Churchill's WW II, I can say that the Cold War was already well under way before the end of WW II. Fascinatng to see how early the roots go back. There was a good movie about an espionage case in Canada in 1945 on TCM recently. I wish I could remember the details, but the Russians were already very busy by then.
Then again, it might get a little too touchy for this forum. The distinction between foreign and domestic, and betwen historical and current events will start to blur.

 

[Lincsong]

Yeah, Hermann you may be right.

 

[drjones]

it IS a big deal

This is a subject I have felt strongly about for a LONG time. Our veterans need to be respected as other cultures have respected their warriors. They are (in other cultures) treated as leaders, advisors, mentors and important people. Theyve been to the edge of hell and back. Their knowledge is prized.

I dont think they are treated that way here and THAT is why people dont talk to the vets about their experiences. I have myself broken that stereotype for me. I have spoken to WWII, Vietnam, Korea, and Persian Gulf veterans and they all have AMAZING stories to share. I used what I learned from my own grandfather for a history class. subsequently, I learned his experiences are reflected in a special feature on the U-571 DVD!!! It adds a whole other dimension to that movie for me.

DRJONES

 

[Smithy]

the U-571 DVD!!!

With all respect to your granddad, that movie is not the best example of historical accuracy. Indeed it offended many former and current members of the RN and even evoked heated outbursts in the House of Commons.

Slightly revisionist to say the least.

 

[Corto]

I made an attempt to get at least two WWII vets into my classes, but they each cancelled at the last minute- which is really too bad.

I also had an opportunity to take one or two priveleged students to a nursing home to talk to a Bataan survivor- but I had to weigh that against the time it would take away from the kids who wouldn't get to go. Very unfortunate.

My Cold War unit will begin imminently...I'm going to start by giving them a "1945 SITREP" and discuss the status of the major international players (leaders and revolutionary movements) after the last bomb drops.

I'd love to start a Cold War thread- but I don't know if that exceeds the stated mission (and atmosphere) of the Fedora Lounge...What do you guys think. Would it be acceptible, or not?

 

[Corto]

This is a subject I have felt strongly about for a LONG time. Our veterans need to be respected as other cultures have respected their warriors. They are (in other cultures) treated as leaders, advisors, mentors and important people. Theyve been to the edge of hell and back. Their knowledge is prized.
DRJONES

I agree with you...but I (student) teach in a very liberal, inner-ring-suburb's school district. I have to watch it when I extol martial virtues. (At least until I get a real job)...

 

[drjones]

oops

really? wow. ok...thank you for the correction of my foible!
DRJONES

With all respect to your granddad, that movie is not the best example of historical accuracy. Indeed it offended many former and current members of the RN and even evoked heated outbursts in the House of Commons.

Slightly revisionist to say the least.

 

[Lincsong]

Many times when I try to talk to battle veterans they just don't want to talk about what happened. The hell of war is something they'd rather just forget. I knew a Bataan Death March soldier who escaped and then fought in the jungle guerilla wars. Very interesting. I knew a Korean Vet who was at Chosin, he talked in generalities, not specifics. Again, the hell of battle isn't something to remember.

Once I sold a car to a WWII tank driver who was under the command of General Patton. He told me that even seven years after the war he had a job as a truck driver in Oakland, was at a stop light in front of a steel plant and there was a thumping from a pile driver, he blacked out and woke up several hours later in the hospital, not knowing what happened. The doctors told him it was probably due to a battle flashback.

 

[Chas]

So, in your opinion, what were the most pivotal moments? The most under-appreciated moments? The most pivotal technologies, innovations and advancements? Unfortunate ramifications?

I'm want to get beyond their textbook if possible (because there aren't enough for all the students to take home anyways). I've already got my own answers to these questions, but I'm curious to see what you all think.
Corto

There are two essentially pivotal moments in the war, in terms of the Western Front.

The first pivotal moment on the Western Front happened in May, 1943 in the Atlantic. At that point, the German U-Boats were resoundingly defeated by a combination of aggressive escort tactics, radar, better coordination between Allied air and naval units, and, lastly, the war-winning Allied technological advantage. The invasion of Normandy would not have happened had the Germans been able to press their advantage against the convoys. Keep in mind that the worst losses suffered by the US in any one single battle was the slaughter of merchant vessels in Jan-Apr '45 along the Eastern seaboard. It's much less known, and overshadowed by Pearl Harbor, which was a half-baked effort on the part of the Japanese, as destructive as it seemed at the time.

In both Pacific and European theaters, it was superior Allied intel that really won the war. One only needs to look to the breaking of the Japanese Navy "Purple" cipher and the code breaking at Bletchley Park to see the significance of this. Allied code breaking allowed the Allies to essentially "read their enemies mail", in some cases, in real time.

The lesson here is that in a conventional war, better intelligence is the key to victory. Just ask Sun Tzu.