WWII GI pants....

[TailendCharlie]

Buttons

Great thread , I'm in search for buttons for my field jacket,circa 1944any thoughts?

 

[Zemke Fan]

Buy a moth-eaten one on eBay...

Great thread , I'm in search for buttons for my field jacket,circa 1944any thoughts?

... for $10 and scavenge the buttons. I did that with a tan summer weight Class A tunic that was beyond saving.

 

[thunderw21]

Great thread , I'm in search for buttons for my field jacket,circa 1944any thoughts?

Atthefront.com has buttons under "Materials and Hardware", $.50 each. Do you need them for an M43 jacket?

 

[MrBern]

sepctag

Geez, and had the nerve to sell off the hatcheted mess???

the sad thing is the pants were probably not issued, or used very lightly. The spec tag was very legible.

Spec tags are usually sewn onto the right front pocket's lining. But inbetween the pocket & the trouser leg. So even tho it doesnt touch the skin, it gets abraided against the trouser & eventually rubbed off. Washing further degrades it.
So without a tag it makes it harder to date an item, but there are details to look for.
Heres a good sign that your field pants are wartime.
the gasflap on a pair of `45 trousers

the gasflap was there to protect the buttonfly area from a poison gas attack. I believe they came in mid to late war.
You dont see them on the very late to postwar wool pants.

also note the suspender button inside the waistband. They are the same size as the buttons used down the fly & on the left rear pocket. About the size of a dime. These dark brown buttons are the most commonn I've seen on wool trousers.

I'm a fan of the buttonfly gasflap, tho some think it makes life very difficult when nature calls.

Incidentally, the first version of the wool field trou's gasflap is not as integral as this. It was an addition of a flannel flap.Easily removed for those who were annoyed.

 

[MrBern]

Oh, you cant always trust spec tages either.
This particular pair is definitely labeled the typical 18oz serge wool
I doubt it
Its not the same wool as other pants or the ike jkt. I had another similar pair from 44 which had a faded spec tag. thats what confused me. it listed one line as
33 1.8 oz , Special
So we thought they were similar to the 32oz melton wool used on the heavy Overcoat. Maybe special pants designed for them.
I'd seen other tags w/ the line
OD, light shade, Special.
So that also confused us , thinking the shade might be special.
But really the SPECIAL refers to the GASFLAP.
the "33" refers to some pants being OD33 which is the latewar color that matches the Ike jkt. A well placed comma or dash wouldve made this less obtuse.

heres a scan of 44pattern & 45pattern pants in the mysterious heavy wool. Note the sole difference between these patterns is the left pocket was flapped in 44. Gone in `45 probably to make them easier to wear under cotton field trousers as a layer. The rightside pocket is neither flapped or buttoned on either pair.
And the color is a shade different.
(And maybe the `45 beltloops are slightly larger.)

.

 

[MrBern]

Those have to be a rarity. The thing that always surprises me if the quality of materials, as in those buttons and the buttonhole stitching. What would be worn up top? Or overall? A wool overcoat? Sweater?

This is one of the few places such a thing can be seen. Thanks for posting those!

The Mountain troops & Forcemen(USA/Canada) probably only had these woolpants for a short time in training. I believe they were trained in Wyoming. In the ETO they had the stout cotton versions layered over longjohns or wool trousers.
Their issued gear was quite a bit different from typical GIs. Usually arctic versions. So their M41 jkt was an arctic version that was longer, reaching down over the thighs. They also had belted field jkts that were designed w/ integral backpacks, more elaborate than the common M43 field jacket.
And they had fur hooded parkas that were reversible from OD to white.
What Price GLory sells some repros including the skiboots.

check out some BlackDevil reenactors:
http://members.tripod.com/fssflhg/id18.htm

 

[MrBern]

moths

Ski trousers! The perfect pair of pants to post today. I could have used them during my work commute.
The quality of the pants are outstanding.

Lemme tell you something about outstanding.
I got those on ebay cuz the condition appeared so nice & I had done some reenacted tacticals w/ a fine young athletic group of FSSF reenactors.
The pants are very nice, but the seller conveniently folded the legs over the lap for his auction photos. Covering several mothholes & small tears...
It was misleading & I stated so in his feedback.

caveat emptor
caveat emptor

 

[Feraud]

Lemme tell you something about outstanding.
I got those on ebay cuz the condition appeared so nice & I had done some reenacted tacticals w/ a fine young athletic group of FSSF reenactors.
The pants are very nice, but the seller conveniently folded the legs over the lap for his auction photos. Covering several mothholes & small tears...
It was misleading & I stated so in his feedback.

caveat emptor
caveat emptor

Oh the b***rd!
Because you gave him that well deserved negative feedback, I assume he is going to do the same to you! This is bearing in mind your end of the auction responsibility was perfect. What is up with that?

 

[MrBern]

Oh the b***rd!
Because you gave him that well deserved negative feedback, I assume he is going to do the same to you! This is bearing in mind your end of the auction responsibility was perfect. What is up with that?

No actually when it happend I paid him promptly & he immediately left good feedback for me. It was a dealer who has a mixed reputation. I had only bought some wartiem photos from him previously soI trusted his item description. I was truly annoyed to see how he had covered over the defects. So I slammed him and it was too late for him to slam back.
Another good reason why its more fun to pick up gear at reenactments & militaria shows.

 

[Feraud]

I do not mind a moth hole or two but the seller should be honest about it!

 

[MrBern]

Great thread , I'm in search for buttons for my field jacket,circa 1944any thoughts?

look for an old armynavy surplus store. Sometimes they have a box of old orignal buttons. I've seen prices like a buck a button.
Call AtTheFront.com, theyre repros arent bad, Sometimes they have originals too.
Y'know, theyre brown trosuer buttons are dead on.
The lighter ones, not so much. Paratrooper jump pants & khakis didnt use dark brown or khaki color buttons. More reddish, orangey brown.
But theyre not terrible.

 

[scotrace]

I'm a fan of the buttonfly gasflap, tho some think it makes life very difficult when nature calls.

I prefer button flies also. But button fly + braces + waistcoat (or Ike jacket) = 3 Act Play when answering The Call.

 

[MrBern]

the life of the fibre

BTW I wanted to point out one sure reason why you'll find more surviving wool uniforms than cotton.

http://www.earthsake.com/wool.html
Wool can bend back on itself 20,000 times without breaking; compare this to cotton at 3200 times, silk at 1800, and rayon at only 75 times.

 

[TailendCharlie]

... for $10 and scavenge the buttons. I did that with a tan summer weight Class A tunic that was beyond saving.

Good idea the buttons on the epaulets are all that are left,otherwise its in good condition and a bargain for 2$ at my local Salvation Army

 

[MrBern]

Good idea the buttons on the epaulets are all that are left,otherwise its in good condition and a bargain for 2$ at my local Salvation Army

Funny, someone probably pulled the buttons off to fix another jacket!

 

[TailendCharlie]

Atthefront.com has buttons under "Materials and Hardware", $.50 each. Do you need them for an M43 jacket?

Right you are sir it is a M43 field jacket,but from what I've read this jackets didn't show up until late 1944 early 1945 in the ETO I don't know how true that is,but I do recall seeing photographs from the Bulge where G.I.s used them in winter dress.

 

[MrBern]

spec tag

No camera, so I dropped the trousers onto a scanner.
heres the inside of the pants, turned out to see the specifications label.
Note how nicely the gasflap is lined.

And a closeup of the tag

hope this helps!

 

[MrBern]

Right you are sir it is a M43 field jacket,but from what I've read this jackets didn't show up until late 1944 early 1945 in the ETO I don't know how true that is,but I do recall seeing photographs from the Bulge where G.I.s used them in winter dress.

I think it was tested in `43 before it was widely issued to the infantry in `44.
I know specifically it wasnt issued to paratroopers until the MarketGarden offensive in fall `44.

 

[MrBern]

22oz Special

these dont look so differnt off hand, but they are a variation you dont see very often

Notice the button...its different. The belt loops too.But more than that, its not 18oz serge wool. The patt date is smudged but the order date seems to be Jan12 1945.

Trousers, Field,Wool
Serge, 22oz, Special.

here you can see even the suspender buttons match the fly. Rimmed, not liek the other buttons posted in this thread. You do see these buttons on Ike jkts & some of the OD Cotton `43 pattern trousers. Actually the belt loops are more like the 43cotton trousers.

here you can see the details of the back. The belt loops. usually the wool trousers have belt loop directly on the rear seam.
Nice how the pocket flap is lined.

and another detail just like 43cotton trou, the trouserlegs have buttons & a tab to make them easier to blouse into a boot.

in addition to the usual spec tag, there is another label detailing: Trousers Field Wool OD 22oz may be worn alone but in COLD DAMP and WINDY areas should be worn covered by Trousers Field Cotton OD for extra warmth. Tightening ankletab secures additional warmth &helps keep trousers in boot.

 

[MrBern]

Elastique Dark OD trousers

Officer Dark O.D. trousers also called the 'chocolate' trousers.
Notice the pocket runs along the seam, not a slash like the enlisted field trousers
Also notice that rear belt loop is dropped down.

This pair is from 1944

The waistband is a nicer & darker cloth than the enlisted field trousers
Note the label identifing them as official officer trou.
So that new officers woouldnt be duped into buying non regulation wares.