WWII Eccentric Heroes

[Spitfire]

IMHO Bader was a strongheaded, manipulating bully, who - had he not lost his legs - would have been just another forgotten wingcommander.:rage:
But his lifestory was good, Britain needed heroes like that back then. But he used his fame to hurt other - and better - people and get them out of his way.
I am offcourse thinking about his role in the sacking of Park and "Stuffy" Dowding. Park had always shown doubt - and in good reason - in Baders Big Wing and Dowding had also been reluctant to listen to Bader.
Eccentric? No. A hero? [huh] Manipulating? Yes!

...sorry if I stepped on somebody toes there, I got a bit carried away.
I have just read so much not so flattering about this guy.

 

[Smithy]

I am offcourse thinking about his role in the sacking of Park and "Stuffy" Dowding. Park had always shown doubt - and in good reason - in Baders Big Wing and Dowding had also been reluctant to listen to Bader.

That's the reason why I have reservations about Bader, Spitty. The way that Dowding and Park were treated after the Battle was disgusting, and Bader being a "lowly" squadron leader at this stage had no right whatsoever to be involved in "that" meeting which saw Stuffy and Park get the flick.

There is little doubt that his and Leigh-Mallory's Big Wing/Balbo formations, if used in the decisive days of mid to late August would've resulted in the decimation of southern sector and satellite airfields if 11 Group had used such tactics. There was simply not enough time to formate such wing sized formations in time to successfully intercept raids.

I think Deere and Johnson's views on Baders ideas were very accurate.

 

[Dragon Soldier]

Hmm... Not sure if he was 'eccentric' exactly, but certainly a 'character'.

Robert Blair 'Paddy' Mayne....

 

[PADDY]

I was at Paddy Mayne's statue last week.

Getting my 99 ice cream out of Caffolla's in Newtownard's market square, and walked over to have a look at the bronze statue.

Wee Story: My uncle was given a pistol by Blair in the early 50's which had been taken off a German officer by him. But sadly the firearm was destroyed later by my uncle due to the early troubles kicking off and not wanting the side arm to fall into the wrong hands.#

By all accounts, Mayne was a lovely guy, until he had a drink inside him and something 'clicked,' turning him into a fighting machine that folk just avoided for their own safety.

There were more bars to his DSO than in Dublin!! But it's reckoned that he was never decorated with the VC, due to his rubbing the senior brass up the wrong way. A fine Irish rugger player too. A character of a man!!

 

[dhermann1]

IMHO Bader was a strongheaded, manipulating bully, who - had he not lost his legs - would have been just another forgotten wingcommander.:rage:
But his lifestory was good, Britain needed heroes like that back then. But he used his fame to hurt other - and better - people and get them out of his way.
I am offcourse thinking about his role in the sacking of Park and "Stuffy" Dowding. Park had always shown doubt - and in good reason - in Baders Big Wing and Dowding had also been reluctant to listen to Bader.
Eccentric? No. A hero? [huh] Manipulating? Yes!

...sorry if I stepped on somebody toes there, I got a bit carried away.
I have just read so much not so flattering about this guy.

All I know is what I saw in the Kenneth Moore movie, and what was in his bio. Can you point me to a website with more of what you're talking about? You can't argue with 22 kills and no legs, but even Churchill had his negative points.

 

[Smithy]

Dhermann1, if you want to learn more about the controversial aspects of Bader, it's best to get some books on the subject. A lot of what is on the internet on many sites is strewn with fallacies and half truths, like a lot of things on the net which purport to be historically accurate.

Bader's role in the sacking of Dowding and Park is covered in many books, and it is without doubt that Leigh-Mallory and Bader were instrumental in their dismissals. A large amount of The Few also after the Battle and after the war dismissed Bader's (and Leigh-Mallory's) proposed alternative tactics for the defence of Britain and which were used by B and L-M to have Dowding and Park fired. Most historians also now dismiss the idea that Balbo formations would've led to any better outcome of the Battle. Hence Bader's ideas of air combat and his "selling out" of Dowding and Park have come under such strong criticism.

In terms of Bader's personality and other's criticisms of it, there is a multitude of information out there regarding this. As I mentioned earlier Bader elicitted strong feelings from those he came into contact with, and many of The Few have voiced and written their opinions of the man, both positive and negative.

Also just another thing, Bader's score at war's end was 20 and 4 shared destroyed, 6 and 1 shared probables, and 11 damaged.

 

[Spitfire]

Thanks wingman, Smithy. exact my words.

 

[Harp]

By all accounts, Mayne was a lovely guy, until he had a drink inside him and something 'clicked,' turning him into a fighting machine that folk just avoided for their own safety.

There were more bars to his DSO than in Dublin!! But it's reckoned that he was never decorated with the VC, due to his rubbing the senior brass up the wrong way. A fine Irish rugger player too. A character of a man!!

Quite the rogue. He probably scribbled a bit of poetry too...

 

[Spitfire]

Quite the rogue. He probably scribbled a bit of poetry too...

lol lol lol lol you should see his embroideries!

 

[Story]

Sergeant Dougie Wright

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/29/db2901.xml

Sergeant Dougie Wright, who has died aged 88, earned a Military Medal and a legendary reputation as a fighting soldier with Lord Jellicoe's 1st Special Boat Squadron in the Greek islands.

In April 1944 he distinguished himself in a close-quarter attack on an enemy post on Ios, which resulted in no SBS losses but five enemy casualties. He was also involved in two dramatic attacks on a radio station on Amorgos. In the first he found himself under the command of Anders Lassen, a Dane (later to win a posthumous VC) who hated Germans and usually killed them; but on this occasion Lassen did a deal with a captured wireless operator by which he took the man's dog as well as the station's code books, while Wright took the German's Greek mistress. lol

 

[dr greg]

The Few

I once shared a train compartment with one of "the few", still had the upturned mo and scarf with his tweed suit, nice chap, very humble about it all as it only came up in general conversation about what he was doing in Australia, I can't remember the name unfortunately as this was 30 years ago, and good manners dictated I not ask him how many men he'd killed, so no way to know if he was an ace or not.

 

[Twitch]

Colonel Percy Fawcett was true example that Indiana Jones could have been drawn from.

I'm sure you can find plenty on the web about him but I'll say his South American explorations were legendary. He disappeared in 1925 after setting off to find what he believed a major lost civilization in the jungle.

 

[Smithy]

I once shared a train compartment with one of "the few", still had the upturned mo and scarf with his tweed suit, nice chap, very humble about it all as it only came up in general conversation about what he was doing in Australia, I can't remember the name unfortunately as this was 30 years ago, and good manners dictated I not ask him how many men he'd killed, so no way to know if he was an ace or not.

This might be a long shot Dr Greg, but it wasn't this chap that you met was it...

Basil "Stapme" Stapleton

The reason I ask is he's fairly famous amongst The Few for keeping his handlebar moustache ever since the war and I know he's also travelled to Oz. The photo is from around 2004 but he hasn't changed that much lookwise from 30 odd years ago (apart from getting a little whiter of hair and longer in the tooth).

 

[dr greg]

???

You know what, it's possible, can't say for sure: you'd have to ask him if he ever took a train fron Sydney to Brisbane.

 

[Smithy]

You can't remember if he said that he was living in Africa at the time can you?

If it is Stapme, you might like to pick up "Stapme", his autobiography written with the help of David Ross. It is a real little gem of a memoir, very enjoyable.

 

[dr greg]

Not that I recall

Actually as I wrack the remnants of my brain, I think he might have been Australian, but a very posh old school type thereof.

 

[Smithy]

Actually as I wrack the remnants of my brain, I think he might have been Australian, but a very posh old school type thereof.

Dr Greg, if you are interested in working out who you met I should be able to help as I have biographical info/service details/photos on every one of The Few (my "obsession" as the better half refers to it!). If he was an Aussie, that really narrows it down, there were 33 of them.

One possible candidate who immediately does come to mind is Charles Olive, he was born in Bardon, Queensland and did have a handlebar moustache - at least during the war.

 

[dr greg]

tall order

That's amazing Smithy, but seriously, it's that long ago, and I only sat opposite the guy for a few hours, so I really couldn't remember enough to identify him, although seeing as it was on a train from Kyogle to Brisbane, and Bardon is in Brisbane.....odds are on I would say.
One scene in my book set in WW2 Brisbane is set in Bardon too, so how's that for coincidence.

 

[Smithy]

That's amazing Smithy, but seriously, it's that long ago, and I only sat opposite the guy for a few hours, so I really couldn't remember enough to identify him, although seeing as it was on a train from Kyogle to Brisbane, and Bardon is in Brisbane.....odds are on I would say.
One scene in my book set in WW2 Brisbane is set in Bardon too, so how's that for coincidence.

Actually the most important thing is that you got to talk with one of The Few, and that even after 30 years it still means something to you.

I'm interested in this book Dr Greg...

 

[Harley Quinn]

Robert Henry Cain, V.C. is worth a mention.

Any man who can kill tanks firing a 2 in mortar from the hip, after having his trousers blown off, is 'eccentric' by any use of the word...