dhermann1
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 9,154
- Location
- Da Bronx, NY, USA
Eggggggzackly! 2 of my all time faves.
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WWII Combat Injuries
- Thread starter AmateisGal
- Start date
Lone_Ranger
Practically Family
- Messages
- 500
- Location
- Central, PA
Or even better. No permanent injuries but a really cool back story. The real life story of Chuck Yeager.
"Stationed in the United Kingdom at RAF Leiston, Yeager flew P-51 Mustangs in combat (he named his aircraft Glamorous Glen after his girlfriend, Glennis Faye Dickhouse, who became his wife in February 1945) with the 363rd Fighter Squadron. He had gained one victory before he was shot down over France on his eighth mission, on March 5, 1944. He escaped to Spain on March 30 with the help of the Maquis and returned to England on May 15, 1944. During his stay with the Maquis, Yeager assisted the guerrillas in duties that did not involve direct combat, though he did help to construct bombs for the group, a skill that he had learned from his father. He was awarded the Bronze Star for helping another airman, who lost part of his leg during the escape attempt, to cross the Pyrenees.
Despite a regulation that "evaders" (escaped pilots) could not fly over enemy territory again to avoid compromising Resistance allies, Yeager was reinstated to flying combat. Yeager had joined a bomber pilot evader, Capt. Fred Glover, in speaking directly to the Allied Supreme Commander, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, on June 12, 1944. With Glover pleading their case, arguing that because the Allies had invaded France, the Maquis resistance movement was by then openly fighting the Nazis alongside Allied troops, so there was little or nothing they could reveal if shot down again to expose those who had helped them evade capture. Eisenhower, after gaining permission from the War Department to decide the requests, concurred with Yeager and Glover"
His contact with the resistance could have been a reason to get sent home.
"Stationed in the United Kingdom at RAF Leiston, Yeager flew P-51 Mustangs in combat (he named his aircraft Glamorous Glen after his girlfriend, Glennis Faye Dickhouse, who became his wife in February 1945) with the 363rd Fighter Squadron. He had gained one victory before he was shot down over France on his eighth mission, on March 5, 1944. He escaped to Spain on March 30 with the help of the Maquis and returned to England on May 15, 1944. During his stay with the Maquis, Yeager assisted the guerrillas in duties that did not involve direct combat, though he did help to construct bombs for the group, a skill that he had learned from his father. He was awarded the Bronze Star for helping another airman, who lost part of his leg during the escape attempt, to cross the Pyrenees.
Despite a regulation that "evaders" (escaped pilots) could not fly over enemy territory again to avoid compromising Resistance allies, Yeager was reinstated to flying combat. Yeager had joined a bomber pilot evader, Capt. Fred Glover, in speaking directly to the Allied Supreme Commander, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, on June 12, 1944. With Glover pleading their case, arguing that because the Allies had invaded France, the Maquis resistance movement was by then openly fighting the Nazis alongside Allied troops, so there was little or nothing they could reveal if shot down again to expose those who had helped them evade capture. Eisenhower, after gaining permission from the War Department to decide the requests, concurred with Yeager and Glover"
His contact with the resistance could have been a reason to get sent home.
staggerwing
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 284
- Location
- Washington DC
AmateisGal said:
Not sure about hearing, but loss of eyesight in one eye would not necessarily keep you from civilian flying. The FAA issues what's called a "waiver of demonstrated ability." That is, if you can show that the handicap doesn't prevent you from operating the aircraft safely, you may be granted a waiver. I used to have one for poor eyesight (the rule was apparently changed, and now I can pass the regular eye exam), and I once bought a plane from a one-armed pilot (WWII morter round) who had a waiver from the FAA.
Lone_Ranger
Practically Family
- Messages
- 500
- Location
- Central, PA
I think there was an RAF pilot that lost both legs and was able to eventually regain flight status with artificial legs. His name escapes me at the moment.
I would suspect that, one eye would make for some hard landings.
I would suspect that, one eye would make for some hard landings.
AmateisGal
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 6,126
- Location
- Nebraska
Lone_Ranger said:
Lone Ranger, you have NO idea how perfect this fits with my story! Thank you!!!
And thanks to everyone else who had such great suggestions. Wow. Yet another reason to love the Fedora Lounge. You all are great!
dhermann1
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 9,154
- Location
- Da Bronx, NY, USA
Lone_Ranger said:
You're thinking of the amazing Douglas Bader. He lost one leg above the knee, and another below the knee, in a stunt he knew he shouldn't do, but was ordered to do, around 1932. He was lying in his hospital room, noticing that the pain was subsiding, when he heard a nurse in the hall whisper "There's a boy in there dying." He started thrashing until the pain started coming back. That's how he saved his own life. He was, naturally, discharged from the RAF, and spent seven miserable years trying to get by. When the war started, in 1939, Britain was desperate for pilots, and by dint of ardent arguing was able to talk himself back into the service. He had achieved something like 47 kills when he was shot down. He spent the rest of the war driving the Germans crazy with his escape attempts. They finally took his wooden legs away.
His is one of the most amazing stories in all of history's annals of personal heroism. I just mention it here in case there are any Loungers at all who don't know it. Nobody would believe it if you tried to make up a story like this, but it's all true.
Orsini
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 72
- Location
- Redondo Beach, California, USA
Or maybe to the Pacific...Lone_Ranger said:
AmateisGal
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 6,126
- Location
- Nebraska
Orsini said:
Great point, Orsini.
BTW, welcome to the Lounge! Love your avatar. North by Northwest is one of my all time favorite movies.
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Self admittedly, I'm lazy. I haven't scanned the other posts here to see what others have brought to the table. What I can do is provide you with the responsibilities of the B-17 pilot and co-pilot, with the suggestion that, anything which would prohibit the execution of the duties and responsibilities of each one of these facets, might necessitate the grounding of it's pilot. From, "the B-17 Pilot Manual," I submit:
Duties and Responsibilities of
THE AIRPLANE COMMANDER
Your assignment to the B-17 airplane means that you are no longer just a pilot. You are now an airplane commander, charged with all the duties and responsibilities of a command post.
You are now flying a 10-man weapon. It is your airplane, and your crew. You are responsible for the safety and efficiency of the crew at all times--not just when you are flying and fighting, but for the full 24 hours of every day while you are in command.
Your crew is made up of specialists. Each man -- whether he is the navigator, bombardier, engineer, radio operator, or one of the gunners -- is an expert in his line. But how well he does his job, and how efficiently he plays his part as a member of your combat team, will depend to a great extent on how well you play your own part as the airplane commander.
Get to know each member of your crew as an individual. Know his personal idiosyncrasies, his capabilities, his shortcomings. Take a personal interest in his problems, his ambitions, his need for specific training.
See that your men are properly quartered, clothed, and fed. There will be many times, when your airplane and crew are away from the home base, when you may even have to carry your interest to the extent of financing them yourself. Remember always that you are the commanding officer of a miniature army -- a specialized army; and that morale is one of the biggest problems for the commander of any army, large or small.
Crew Discipline
Your success as the airplane commander will depend in a large measure on the respect, confidence, and trust which the crew feels for you. It will depend also on how well you maintain crew discipline.
Your position commands obedience and respect. This does not mean that you have to be stiff-necked, overbearing, or aloof. Such characteristics most certainly will defeat your purpose. Be friendly, understanding, but firm. Know your job; and, by the way you perform your duties daily, impress upon the crew that you do know your job. Keep close to your men, and let them realize that their interests are uppermost in your mind. Make fair decisions, after due consideration of all the facts involved; but make them in such a way as to impress upon your crew that your decisions are to stick. Crew discipline is vitally important, but it need not be as difficult a problem as it sounds. Good discipline in an air crew breeds comradeship and high morale, and the combination is unbeatable.
You can be a good CO, and still be a regular guy. You can command respect from your men, and still be one of them.
"To associate discipline with informality, comradeship, a leveling of rank, and at times a shift in actual command away from the leader, may seem paradoxical," says a brigadier general, formerly a Group commander in the VIII Bomber Command. "Certainly, it isn't down the military groove. But it is discipline just the same -- and the kind of discipline that brings success in the air."
Crew Training
Train your crew as a team. Keep abreast of their training. It won't be possible for you to follow each man's courses of instruction, but you can keep a close check on his record and progress.
Get to know each man's duties and problems. Know his job, and try to devise ways and means of helping him to perform it more efficiently.
Each crew member naturally feels great pride in the importance of his particular specialty. You can help him to develop his pride to include the manner in which he performs that duty. To do that you must possess and maintain a thorough knowledge of each man's job and the problems he has to deal with in the performance of his duties.
Duties and Responsibilities of
THE COPILOT
The copilot is the executive officer -- your chief assistant, understudy, and strong right arm. He must be familiar enough with every one of your duties -- both as pilot and as airplane commander -- to be able to take over and act in your place at any time.
* He must he able to fly the airplane under all conditions as well as you would fly it yourself.
* He must he extremely proficient in engine operation, and know instinctively what to do to keep the airplane flying smoothly even though he is not handling the controls.
* He must have a thorough knowledge of cruising control data, and know how to apply it at the proper time.
* He is also the engineering officer aboard the airplane, and maintains a complete log of performance data.
* He must be a qualified instrument pilot.
* He must he able to fly good formation in any assigned position, day or night.
* He must he qualified to navigate by day or at night by pilotage, dead reckoning, and by use of radio aids.
* He must be proficient in the operation of all radio equipment located in the pilot's compartment.
* In formation flying, he must be able to make engine adjustments almost automatically.
* He must be prepared to take over on instruments when the formation is climbing through an overcast, thus enabling you to watch the rest of the formation.
Always remember that the copilot is a fully trained, rated pilot just like yourself. He is subordinate to you only by virtue of your position as the airplane commander. The B-17 is a lot of airplane; more airplane than any one pilot can handle alone over a long period of time. Therefore, you have been provided with a second pilot who will share the duties of flight operation.
Treat your copilot as a brother pilot. Remember that the more proficient he is as a pilot, the more efficiently he will be able to perform the duties of the vital post he holds as your second in command.
Be sure that he is allowed to do his share of the flying, in the pilot's seat, on takeoffs, landings, and on instruments.
The importance of the copilot is eloquently testified to by airplane commanders overseas. There have been many cases in which the pilot has been disabled or killed in flight and the copilot has taken full command of both airplane and crew, completed the mission, and returned safely to the home base. Usually, the copilots who have distinguished themselves under such conditions have been copilots who have been respected and trained by the airplane commander as pilots.
Bear in mind that the pilot in the right-hand seat of your airplane is preparing himself for an airplane commander's post too. Allow him every chance to develop his ability and to profit by your experience.
http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/html/mshwpmn1.htm#ac
Regards
Duties and Responsibilities of
THE AIRPLANE COMMANDER
Your assignment to the B-17 airplane means that you are no longer just a pilot. You are now an airplane commander, charged with all the duties and responsibilities of a command post.
You are now flying a 10-man weapon. It is your airplane, and your crew. You are responsible for the safety and efficiency of the crew at all times--not just when you are flying and fighting, but for the full 24 hours of every day while you are in command.
Your crew is made up of specialists. Each man -- whether he is the navigator, bombardier, engineer, radio operator, or one of the gunners -- is an expert in his line. But how well he does his job, and how efficiently he plays his part as a member of your combat team, will depend to a great extent on how well you play your own part as the airplane commander.
Get to know each member of your crew as an individual. Know his personal idiosyncrasies, his capabilities, his shortcomings. Take a personal interest in his problems, his ambitions, his need for specific training.
See that your men are properly quartered, clothed, and fed. There will be many times, when your airplane and crew are away from the home base, when you may even have to carry your interest to the extent of financing them yourself. Remember always that you are the commanding officer of a miniature army -- a specialized army; and that morale is one of the biggest problems for the commander of any army, large or small.
Crew Discipline
Your success as the airplane commander will depend in a large measure on the respect, confidence, and trust which the crew feels for you. It will depend also on how well you maintain crew discipline.
Your position commands obedience and respect. This does not mean that you have to be stiff-necked, overbearing, or aloof. Such characteristics most certainly will defeat your purpose. Be friendly, understanding, but firm. Know your job; and, by the way you perform your duties daily, impress upon the crew that you do know your job. Keep close to your men, and let them realize that their interests are uppermost in your mind. Make fair decisions, after due consideration of all the facts involved; but make them in such a way as to impress upon your crew that your decisions are to stick. Crew discipline is vitally important, but it need not be as difficult a problem as it sounds. Good discipline in an air crew breeds comradeship and high morale, and the combination is unbeatable.
You can be a good CO, and still be a regular guy. You can command respect from your men, and still be one of them.
"To associate discipline with informality, comradeship, a leveling of rank, and at times a shift in actual command away from the leader, may seem paradoxical," says a brigadier general, formerly a Group commander in the VIII Bomber Command. "Certainly, it isn't down the military groove. But it is discipline just the same -- and the kind of discipline that brings success in the air."
Crew Training
Train your crew as a team. Keep abreast of their training. It won't be possible for you to follow each man's courses of instruction, but you can keep a close check on his record and progress.
Get to know each man's duties and problems. Know his job, and try to devise ways and means of helping him to perform it more efficiently.
Each crew member naturally feels great pride in the importance of his particular specialty. You can help him to develop his pride to include the manner in which he performs that duty. To do that you must possess and maintain a thorough knowledge of each man's job and the problems he has to deal with in the performance of his duties.
Duties and Responsibilities of
THE COPILOT
The copilot is the executive officer -- your chief assistant, understudy, and strong right arm. He must be familiar enough with every one of your duties -- both as pilot and as airplane commander -- to be able to take over and act in your place at any time.
* He must he able to fly the airplane under all conditions as well as you would fly it yourself.
* He must he extremely proficient in engine operation, and know instinctively what to do to keep the airplane flying smoothly even though he is not handling the controls.
* He must have a thorough knowledge of cruising control data, and know how to apply it at the proper time.
* He is also the engineering officer aboard the airplane, and maintains a complete log of performance data.
* He must be a qualified instrument pilot.
* He must he able to fly good formation in any assigned position, day or night.
* He must he qualified to navigate by day or at night by pilotage, dead reckoning, and by use of radio aids.
* He must be proficient in the operation of all radio equipment located in the pilot's compartment.
* In formation flying, he must be able to make engine adjustments almost automatically.
* He must be prepared to take over on instruments when the formation is climbing through an overcast, thus enabling you to watch the rest of the formation.
Always remember that the copilot is a fully trained, rated pilot just like yourself. He is subordinate to you only by virtue of your position as the airplane commander. The B-17 is a lot of airplane; more airplane than any one pilot can handle alone over a long period of time. Therefore, you have been provided with a second pilot who will share the duties of flight operation.
Treat your copilot as a brother pilot. Remember that the more proficient he is as a pilot, the more efficiently he will be able to perform the duties of the vital post he holds as your second in command.
Be sure that he is allowed to do his share of the flying, in the pilot's seat, on takeoffs, landings, and on instruments.
The importance of the copilot is eloquently testified to by airplane commanders overseas. There have been many cases in which the pilot has been disabled or killed in flight and the copilot has taken full command of both airplane and crew, completed the mission, and returned safely to the home base. Usually, the copilots who have distinguished themselves under such conditions have been copilots who have been respected and trained by the airplane commander as pilots.
Bear in mind that the pilot in the right-hand seat of your airplane is preparing himself for an airplane commander's post too. Allow him every chance to develop his ability and to profit by your experience.
http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/html/mshwpmn1.htm#ac
Regards
Somewhat fftopic: but the thread made me remember this. In college a friend worked at the library and took me back to the 'off limits' stack. I found a book detailing combat injuries, as I recall, in the USAAF. It was some sort of medical study book. It was really shocking. It had photos of the deceased bomber crewmen (on the table undressed) documenting their crew position and the type of injury. One, a flak shrapnel wound to the abdomen, is burned in my memory forever. It was not the sort of book to show potential recruits! Those poor, poor boys . . .
fftopic: but the thread made me remember this. In college a friend worked at the library and took me back to the 'off limits' stack. I found a book detailing combat injuries, as I recall, in the USAAF. It was some sort of medical study book. It was really shocking. It had photos of the deceased bomber crewmen (on the table undressed) documenting their crew position and the type of injury. One, a flak shrapnel wound to the abdomen, is burned in my memory forever. It was not the sort of book to show potential recruits! Those poor, poor boys . . .
ethanedwards
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 254
- Location
- England
dhermann1 said:
By all accounts, he was a remarkable man in many ways, before, during and after the war.
Depending on the source though, he was said to be stubborn, intransigent and a monument egotist. The Big Wing theory was terribly divisive and remains so to this day. I always thought his accident was basically a result of him showing off and getting it wrong.
Whatever the truth, he was a hero in the real sense of the word, an extraordinarily brave man.
