Wow, Schott new website

[Edward]

Absolutely! It's probably part of the overall Lost Worlds' no whistles, no bells 'vision', but the amateurism of it is another reason - among others - that really put me off buying anything from them/him. There's no excuse nowadays.

Yeah, that's the danger - it doesn't come across so much as "I don't have time for this" as "I can't be bothered to do anything better", which is subtly different. I don't care for amateurism of any sort in business, which incorporates a wdie range of sins, including a lack of separation between personal politics and the business. There are a number of businesses I deal with where I well know that the owners' politics and mine diverge markedly, but that doesn't bother me because they keep it professional and spearate the two. On the other hand, there are several businesses I simply decline to patronise because the owners have blurred the line between their personal politics and their business such that I feel that by buying from them I would be supporting their politics. Of course, it could also be that they've taken that into consideration and are banking on their political slant pulling in more customers than it alienates. I'm aware of a specialist sotre somewhere in the US that made a very big public statement to the effect that custom from those who voted for a particular preidential candidate were not welcome. Obviously that was a calculated risk that this would drive more supporters of the other sie to them than it pushed away... Market perceptions are a funny thing like that. Would be a fascinating area for academic study.

Yup, have to agree with all the others, the old site looked better - probably because you couldn't see the jackets (seem to be) sized wrongly on the models.

Never had a Schott but in truth I'll admit I've always had a soft spot for their 645 retro car coat.

They're nice.... though they're much nicer at the US prices than the marked-up UK prices.... I'd still consider one used, but if you're used to Aero / Eastman and the likes, well.... they're not, in my opinion and comparing like for like, quite on that level. Very nice and if you get one on a good deal I'd still go for it, but just not quite in the same league.


Is it just me, or..... Well, I find it kinda funny looking at us all on here telling a company who have been designing and making these jackets for a century, give or take, that they don't understand how to fit their jackets properly... lol I suppose that's the vagaries of changing fashions for you.

 

[Smithy]

Is it just me, or..... Well, I find it kinda funny looking at us all on here telling a company who have been designing and making these jackets for a century, give or take, that they don't understand how to fit their jackets properly... lol I suppose that's the vagaries of changing fashions for you.

Edward, you're dead right, we're a picky old bunch of buggers aren't we!

At the end of the day, jackets on models are one thing, but you can always size up or size down with off the peg stuff. Maybe we're sweating the small stuff too much...then again

 

[pawineguy]

Is it just me, or..... Well, I find it kinda funny looking at us all on here telling a company who have been designing and making these jackets for a century, give or take, that they don't understand how to fit their jackets properly... lol I suppose that's the vagaries of changing fashions for you.

There is a lot of talk these days about telling a "story" in marketing, and to be fair, Schott probably has the best story to tell. The core line of moto jackets is still world class, but with prices ascending fairly rapidly and wading through the clutter of all of their new offerings, you wonder if they are losing that core of biker fans. On the other hand, the market for fashion (or biker jackets for non-riders) is probably much larger, so what do I know?

 

[nick123]

The good news is the jackets probably look much better in person. Seems like there's an unhealthy amount of shininess/flash to their photos.

 

[handymike]

I don't like it.
Bad fits
Bad models
Bad photography

 

[Edward]

Edward, you're dead right, we're a picky old bunch of buggers aren't we!

At the end of the day, jackets on models are one thing, but you can always size up or size down with off the peg stuff. Maybe we're sweating the small stuff too much...then again

Heh, well... with this sort of money, it's not wrong to be sure of what we're buying into!

There is a lot of talk these days about telling a "story" in marketing, and to be fair, Schott probably has the best story to tell. The core line of moto jackets is still world class, but with prices ascending fairly rapidly and wading through the clutter of all of their new offerings, you wonder if they are losing that core of biker fans. On the other hand, the market for fashion (or biker jackets for non-riders) is probably much larger, so what do I know?

I suspect the fashion market has long since overtaken the biker crowd for this style of jacket. At least here in the UK, tbh I struggle to remember the last time I saw one of these actually on the back of a bike... As of the last few months, there's been abig fashion resurgence for ladies in the Perfecto style (after years of the cafe racer type jacket dominating the women's market for "biker" jackets). A lot of intersting variations. Most of them a cheap pleather or lambskin, construction and qualityl ikely not great, but all the same many of them very interesting from a design pov...

I think the other thing that has hit Schott is that, at least on this sided of the Atlantic, there no longer seems to be the same cachet in owning a "real Schott". People either want a cheap version (and from pov of treating these purely as clothing, there are more than a few cheaper options, in and around £100, that are surprisingly good for the money), or they want a really high quality jacket, but which doesn't necessarily have to be a Schott... The Perfecto style has beocme a generic (the danger with any such iconic design, in the long term). Vanson, among others, are donig very nice stuff indeed at in and around the same money now... (I'm actually very tempted by one of the Vanson Perfecto-types if I could find the right one.... quite fancy the idea of a standard P, no side-lacing, in black with brass fittings, self-colour, not chrome-plated....). That being the case, you can see why instead of going for the biker crowd or the hardcore jacket crowd, they might go for the fashion-pack...

The good news is the jackets probably look much better in person. Seems like there's an unhealthy amount of shininess/flash to their photos.

Hard to avoid with new, smoothe, black leather and flash photography...

 

[Sloan1874]

The good news is the jackets probably look much better in person. Seems like there's an unhealthy amount of shininess/flash to their photos.

Yes, they look rather smooth and PVC-ish, don't they? Probably some photographer/art director's idea of what makes a jacket cool, but does nothing for me.

 

[Plumbline]

I think it's brave of them to even put fit pictures ... and I'm not sure how nesessary they are ! ( Many of us buy from Aero, Lost Worlds and Eastman and quite frankly they have very few "fit" pics on their website ... most of the jacket pics are on mannequins or just superimposed by photoshop. I have no idea why we even comment on their model selection and wether ther shirts are untucked or not .... it seems a very strange thing to do, but then maybe that's just me !!!

I personally can't live with the Thurston / Insurrection fit ... it's too small for my liking TBH ( unpalatable though this may be on here) ... I don't like it and would never buy a jacket based on these pics TBH. Equally I'm built like a human from the 1980's not the 1930's ..... so a 42" or 44" is my fit .... not a 34" or 36" ......... but I would certainly buy the jackets they sell ( Aero / Vanson )

I'm sure Schott won't sweat the fact that a few people on the Fedora Lounge don't like their website ... they've been going for such a long time and they've re-invented themselves many times. Having tried a number of their jackets and owning a few ( couple of 740N's, A 1950's "Highwayman Clone" which was actually produced before the "Highwayman" , A 1970's perfecto and a baseball jacket) they make VERY good jackets .... their 740N Peacoat is an awesome jacket.

Well done to them for re-designing and moving it forward ... not overly enamoured by the new prices ...... but I imagine they will be as cheap 2nd hand. I suspect it will appeal to exactly who it intended to appel to ( and that isn't many on here )

 

[Monitor]

On the other hand, the market for fashion (or biker jackets for non-riders) is probably much larger, so what do I know?

It is, at the moment, but seeing how quickly trends change these days, what's going to happen to Schott once the whole MC styled fashion craze ends? I'm surprised it's still going strong for a second year albeit, as Edward pointed out, the style seems to have migrated to women this fall/winter - but still... I strongly doubt we'll be seeing that many Perfecto knock-offs at the malls next year and usually, what's fashionable today tends to be a joke tomorrow. Before the resurgence, the style has already been a joke of a sort, attributed either to the 80's or the BLUF scene... With the old site, I always thought Schott had a good thing going on. Like Lewis Leather dot com. Nice, homely looking retro site with a lot of talk about riding safety and a few pictures of Strabler, Springsteen and Ramones thrown in for good measure. I'm sure even people who didn't ride appreciated knowing they're getting a really good jacket for their money because let's face it, Perfecto is a type of jacket nobody would've bought casually - at least not before the fashion industry picked it up again. It's a statement. Now, looking at the images of those models, it's certainly not what I want to look like in these jackets.

I suspect the fashion market has long since overtaken the biker crowd for this style of jacket. At least here in the UK, tbh I struggle to remember the last time I saw one of these actually on the back of a bike... As of the last few months, there's been abig fashion resurgence for ladies in the Perfecto style (after years of the cafe racer type jacket dominating the women's market for "biker" jackets). A lot of intersting variations. Most of them a cheap pleather or lambskin, construction and qualityl ikely not great, but all the same many of them very interesting from a design pov...

I think the other thing that has hit Schott is that, at least on this sided of the Atlantic, there no longer seems to be the same cachet in owning a "real Schott". People either want a cheap version (and from pov of treating these purely as clothing, there are more than a few cheaper options, in and around £100, that are surprisingly good for the money), or they want a really high quality jacket, but which doesn't necessarily have to be a Schott... The Perfecto style has beocme a generic (the danger with any such iconic design, in the long term). Vanson, among others, are donig very nice stuff indeed at in and around the same money now... (I'm actually very tempted by one of the Vanson Perfecto-types if I could find the right one.... quite fancy the idea of a standard P, no side-lacing, in black with brass fittings, self-colour, not chrome-plated....). That being the case, you can see why instead of going for the biker crowd or the hardcore jacket crowd, they might go for the fashion-pack...

Spot on, Edward. That's the main problem, I believe, with companies like Schott starting to aim their stuff toward fashion crowd. Majority of people who follow fashion trends don't have the money for a Schott and that's why crap companies like Zara and such thrive as they offer what is, as far as everyone but us (and actual motorcyclists) concerned, exactly the same thing for a 10% of the price of the real deal. Nobody really knows the difference between bi-swing and action back, what's the little coin pocket for, why the asymmetrical zipper in the first place, etc. People are told that's the way they're suppose to dress and as long as there's H&M with their cheap split leather Perfecto, everyone's happy.

Schott really has no business in the fashion industry. Not with such prices. Having a bunch of emaciated models advertising their jackets which are, judging by those insane measurements, actually cut with larger people in mind, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

And yes, as much as I try not to be concerned with such trivial matters, Stu's website is the reason why I have zero interest in LW jackets. I know they make excellent jackets but that website is simply a crap product and if I hadn't read about their gear here and elsewhere, there's just no way I would ever trust my money with a fellow who seems to be perfectly happy with such website. Would be better off if they made a Facebook or blogspot page or something.

 

[Sloan1874]

I seem to remember Holly saying that one of the problems with having jackets on 'real people' is that it can alienate potential buyers ie. a younger model can put older buyers off and vice versa.
It's one of the real benefits of this place that there are lots of fit pics of covering a wide spectrum of body shapes and age ranges, so you can get a real sense of what a jacket will look like on you.
I've always got the impression that with Thurston, the fit is a very biker-specific look ie, very close-fitting so that in the event of taking a slide, the jacket won't ride up. Literally, it's a second skin to save your own skin.

 

[Plumbline]

As a biker I could NEVER ride a bike in anything as close fitting as the Thurston fit .... at least not cmfortably

Having the jacket tight won't stop it riding up ( the body's momentum is far greater than the resistance to rucking of leather) .... it'll just mean it'll be uncomfortable ( Prof R. Woods has done a wealth of research in this area as well as a number of M/C jacket manufacturers).

 

[Monitor]

I... was never convinced of Insurrection fit. It's too tight. While it certainly looks cool, I'm not sure you can ride comfortably in a jacket as tight as that. Then again, a jacket that's too loose is just as bad and possibly even more dangerous.

EDIT: Right, +1 on what Plumbline said. Didn't see the post prior to making the same comment.

 

[Justhandguns]

Well, but honestly, I think there is really something wrong with their art director for the photo-shots.

But honestly, if they are aiming for the fashion crowd, which one would you go for?




OK, that is a bit unfair to compare the 'fashionable' Belstaff offerings to Schott and the models do not do justice to their jackets, but that is just not appealing to anyone.

 

[xOUTLAWx]

The new schott site is so so but at least they added decent picture of the jackets.

I've been a schott fan for years but their prices have gone crazy over the last four years. I bought my 118 and 641HH for 550$ back in 2010. My 641 was produced in 2005 with a mrsp of 450$. Price have gone quite up in 10 years.

I'm afraid they are slowly pricing themselves out of the average joe/biker market.

Maybe they are trying to market themselves as a prestige brand...

 

[Edward]

I seem to remember Holly saying that one of the problems with having jackets on 'real people' is that it can alienate potential buyers ie. a younger model can put older buyers off and vice versa.

Yeah, that was a few months ago, in repsonse to questions on here re why no fit picks. Aeros' experience was whatever demographic you have model it, you put off the others. Tricky one for any company with a varied market base...

It's one of the real benefits of this place that there are lots of fit pics of covering a wide spectrum of body shapes and age ranges, so you can get a real sense of what a jacket will look like on you.
I've always got the impression that with Thurston, the fit is a very biker-specific look ie, very close-fitting so that in the event of taking a slide, the jacket won't ride up. Literally, it's a second skin to save your own skin.

Yeah, Thurston are after a very specific fit... their house style seems to be long and tight - more so on either count that would be comfrotable to me. I do like my jackets neat, but not skintight... There's a happy medium, I think, even for biking - it doesn't have to be either a skinsuit or a leather tent.

Well, but honestly, I think there is really something wrong with their art director for the photo-shots.

But honestly, if they are aiming for the fashion crowd, which one would you go for?

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OK, that is a bit unfair to compare the 'fashionable' Belstaff offerings to Schott and the models do not do justice to their jackets, but that is just not appealing to anyone.

Ironically in my estimation the Schotts are probably the better jackets, but yes the photos don't do them justice at all. Surprised me, actually - it's the polar opposite of the Ramone Fit which was so much a part of their heritage....

(FWIW, I rather like the design of the Belstaffr being worn by the bearded hipster on the bottom right; looks for all the world like a Lewis Lightning made from sheepskin...)

I'm afraid they are slowly pricing themselves out of the average joe/biker market.

Maybe they are trying to market themselves as a prestige brand...

It's a tricky one. There is always the angfer of pricing yourself out of an established market. On the other hand, perceived value counts for a lot. Back in 1986 when Henry Juszkiewicz and his team bought over gibson Guitars, the company was three months away from closure. Les Pauls were deeply, deeply unfashionable; they could barely sell them. Henry's response was to double the price and push the "heritage brand" angle. Made a mint. Sometimes a sizeable market really can be convinced that because something costs a certain amount, it must be worth a certain amount. I've seen this tactic work in a lot of different businesses including even software). It creates a perceived exclusivity - "this is an expensive product that not everyone can have...", and people really do buy into that. Literally. Gucci did the opposite at a time - put the brand on too many things, diluted its perceived value, and down went demand....

It'll be a pity, imo, if Schott shoots way up in price, as it was always a nice product, a sort of "entry level" to a serious leather jacket imo. It'll be interesting to see what happens to used prices; I've seem both Aero and Eastman second hand prices go up markedly as the price of the new jackets has risen.

 

[GregO]

As a biker I could NEVER ride a bike in anything as close fitting as the Thurston fit .... at least not cmfortably

I ride, and the Thurston fit (with a tweak in body length) is just about perfect for me. They are targeting what usually is termed "height/weight appropriate" individuals. That's a nice way of saying not fat - fairly fit, no gut/love handles, etc. In a day and age in America when over half of the country is overwight or obese, its nice having a place that targets the rest of us. By way of example, I tried on a "slim fit" shirt from Brooks Brothers last month, and the body circumference was literally about 14 or 15 inches too big. Unbelievable. And I am not rail skinny - 5'9" and 165 lbs with a 30 inch waist.

 

[pawineguy]

I ride, and the Thurston fit (with a tweak in body length) is just about perfect for me. They are targeting what usually is termed "height/weight appropriate" individuals. That's a nice way of saying not fat - fairly fit, no gut/love handles, etc. In a day and age in America when over half of the country is overwight or obese, its nice having a place that targets the rest of us. By way of example, I tried on a "slim fit" shirt from Brooks Brothers last month, and the body circumference was literally about 14 or 15 inches too big. Unbelievable. And I am not rail skinny - 5'9" and 165 lbs with a 30 inch waist.

+1 - although it did take some getting used to, but now I love riding in a jacket that's cut tight to the body, gives that "suit of armor" feel. After a few rides the jacket starts forming to your body and becomes very comfortable.

 

[Vespizzare]

My 2 cents worth: I don't like seeing the jacket only and then having to click for more info. I like a little info up front so I know what I'm looking at.

 

[Vespizzare]

I ride, and the Thurston fit (with a tweak in body length) is just about perfect for me. They are targeting what usually is termed "height/weight appropriate" individuals. That's a nice way of saying not fat - fairly fit, no gut/love handles, etc. In a day and age in America when over half of the country is overwight or obese, its nice having a place that targets the rest of us. By way of example, I tried on a "slim fit" shirt from Brooks Brothers last month, and the body circumference was literally about 14 or 15 inches too big. Unbelievable. And I am not rail skinny - 5'9" and 165 lbs with a 30 inch waist.

IMHO 30" waist = thin!

 

[GregO]

IMHO 30" waist = thin!

I should be more specific -- I take a 30" in denim sizing and other pants. My actual waist measurement is larger. More like 32" probably.