Wouldn't it be a shame if this thread gets locked/removed too?

[jeo]

@Edward I still haven't gotten a reasonable explanation why my thread was removed.

I was only told that it is not ok to start a new thread and not to try an end run and start up the same discussion in another thread.

 

[Monitor]

EDIT: Edited my previous reply as @Superfluous said everything that needed be said and @Edward clarified.

But yeah, considering how much time I spend on clothes, I can say that clothes are my life. And... I'm fine with that. That's okay.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

Having seen the thread before it was deleted, it was the cherry on top. The sewing was really bad. Is that representative of their work today, I don't know. So maybe it's unfair to the company, but that's up to them to try and rectify by doing better and possibly trying to rectify their previous mistakes.

Was it just another similar post with several other threads happening at the same time... If I'm being honest, then I would say yes it was. Could it be seen as piling on or malicious intent... I don't know, but I don't think so, but I can see how in the future that could be problematic with plants spreading bad info or someone just being vindictive. There was that other recent thread from a newcomer (who came and went in the span of 20 minutes) who was raving about SB and ripping on Aero without actual reasonable tidbits. But common sense people snuffed that out fairly quickly. So I have faith in the community here that we can judge things as fair, nonsensical, anomalies, patterns, etc.

We're definitely not saving lives here, so yes, it's not the end of the world. And if you really look at it, how many companies have benefited from posts vs. been hurt? I now own jackets from brands I never knew existed because of info I received from these forums. But I can also say I've avoided one or two because of similarly "informed" posts. I'd like to think I weighed the messages (frequency, who was saying it, overall context, etc.) and didn't just react because of one or several pictures or one or two or even a few bad experiences. And maybe for someone who's not as vigilant, they could read one negative post that is a plant, a troll, or was just a fluke, or was a previous standard, etc. etc. and make a poorly informed decision. That's life and again, this isn't life or death. So again, I think people around here can figure things out.

Lastly, I will say there was a bit of "Himmel" mania happening. There was chatter on like 4 or 5 threads at the same time, in short time frame that either cross bred or specifically targeted that subject. It was getting redundant and I sort of stopped reading all of them because message was received in my eyes at least. I'm not saying the posts weren't valid or important, but I think it's more an issue of tidying up the posts, people self policing a little bit, etc. It's not perfect, nothing ever will be, but it's pretty nice around here.

 

[Boyo]

 

[jeo]

Having seen the thread before it was deleted, it was the cherry on top. The sewing was really bad. Is that representative of their work today, I don't know. So maybe it's unfair to the company, but that's up to them to try and rectify by doing better and possibly trying to rectify their previous mistakes.

Was it just another similar post with several other threads happening at the same time... If I'm being honest, then I would say yes it was. Could it be seen as piling on or malicious intent... I don't know, but I don't think so, but I can see how in the future that could be problematic with plants spreading bad info or someone just being vindictive.

I respect your opinion but also respectfully disagree.

The main point of my post was not to show flaws, but to let everyone know that I brought it up with Himel and he did not stand behind his product and instead gave excuses.

All I wanted to do was share my experience, not pile on and not to have anything rectified.

I've had this jacket for two years and never brought it up because I didn't want to harm his reputation. But when he made the claim that he always stands behind his product, I felt compelled to share the truth.

(BTW, I do not think that jacket is representative of their work. My Imperial was cleanly executed.)

 

[ton312]

Having seen the thread before it was deleted, it was the cherry on top. The sewing was really bad. Is that representative of their work today, I don't know. So maybe it's unfair to the company, but that's up to them to try and rectify by doing better and possibly trying to rectify their previous mistakes.

Was it just another similar post with several other threads happening at the same time... If I'm being honest, then I would say yes it was. Could it be seen as piling on or malicious intent... I don't know, but I don't think so, but I can see how in the future that could be problematic with plants spreading bad info or someone just being vindictive. There was that other recent thread from a newcomer (who came and went in the span of 20 minutes) who was raving about SB and ripping on Aero without actual reasonable tidbits. But common sense people snuffed that out fairly quickly. So I have faith in the community here that we can judge things as fair, nonsensical, anomalies, patterns, etc.

We're definitely not saving lives here, so yes, it's not the end of the world. And if you really look at it, how many companies have benefited from posts vs. been hurt? I now own jackets from brands I never knew existed because of info I received from these forums. But I can also say I've avoided one or two because of similarly "informed" posts. I'd like to think I weighed the messages (frequency, who was saying it, overall context, etc.) and didn't just react because of one or several pictures or one or two or even a few bad experiences. And maybe for someone who's not as vigilant, they could read one negative post that is a plant, a troll, or was just a fluke, or was a previous standard, etc. etc. and make a poorly informed decision. That's life and again, this isn't life or death. So again, I think people around here can figure things out.

Lastly, I will say there was a bit of "Himmel" mania happening. There was chatter on like 4 or 5 threads at the same time, in short time frame that either cross bred or specifically targeted that subject. It was getting redundant and I sort of stopped reading all of them because message was received in my eyes at least. I'm not saying the posts weren't valid or important, but I think it's more an issue of tidying up the posts, people self policing a little bit, etc. It's not perfect, nothing ever will be, but it's pretty nice around here.

f any maker falls into a pattern of sending out sub par stuff...the bed is made, time to lay in it. I don’t think members here sharing like experiences, be them positive, negative or any combo therein, should be censored or deleted due to the tone of other (completely independent) threads.

I am a huge fan of certain makers. If they exhibited a negative trend I would have to respect that other members here are equally able to access what they have received and honor their photos and reviews as genuine.

That said, Jeo is not a new member. He has been here longer than most of us (myself included). His collection is diverse and his opinion is valuable. That is the true bedrock of this forum. Not fly by night noobs, posting rants or sour grapes, raves or anything in between. It’s about honest appraisals from forum members who have stood the test of time and continue to contribute. If a group of threads paint a maker in a poor light....said maker has every opportunity to fix it. If they choose not to, that’s the result others can expect. In the case of Carlos and his Chevy , I felt the HB response was fair. For Jeo, it was piss poor. That’s something people should know going in.
The truth is my worst five star is sewn better, at 1/8 the cost

 

[NYDRH]

View attachment 314509

Are the cuffs on those backwards?

 

[jeo]

Are the cuffs on those backwards?

Yes. I was the one who pointed it out in another forum and was happy to hear Dave did rectify the issue this time.

 

[Fonzie]

Frankly, sometimes we all need to get a life. Seriously. It's only clothes.

I DO have a life, I actually come to TFL to escape from it.
With or without emojis, your comment reads very condescending.

 

[ton312]

LOL. In this case I think the mistake was a happy accident. I like the reversed cuff. Pays homage to Hercules jackets.

 

[Hh121]

I don't know how @jeo can remains so calmly about this, it is quite insulting and extremely disrespectful to get your post (after spending a serious amount of work create this post) deleted without given a legit reason.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

I respect your opinion but also respectfully disagree.

The main point of my post was not to show flaws, but to let everyone know that I brought it up with Himel and he did not stand behind his product and instead gave excuses.

All I wanted to do was share my experience, not pile on and not to have anything rectified.

I've had this jacket for two years and never brought it up because I didn't want to harm his reputation. But when he made the claim that he always stands behind his product, I felt compelled to share the truth.

(BTW, I do not think that jacket is representative of their work. My Imperial was cleanly executed.)

no need to disagree because I don't think we're disagreeing. I was saying in the future this could be played by those who don't have fair intent (not you), but also that that's not a reason to stop posts like this because this community can make those decisions themselves and flesh out the bad seeds.

There were a lot of threads that were starting up that were shades of the same issue--Himmels quality to price, Himmels flat out quality, Responsibility of consumer to inform vendor before public outing, and then I think your thread was the last, essentially wrapping up all the previous topics (quality issue which you raised, wasn't addressed by vendor, and now you were going public). Again, not saying that's wrong at all. I had a similar catharsis with Five Star.

Only speaking for myself, the message was received by the previous threads. Your post as I said was just the cherry on top (i.e. just adding more evidence to something that I had already decided on by the previous posts). I don't remember exactly what I said in that thread, but it was something to effect of Himmel needs to do a lot better at his price point since there's several other options of similar high end leather and lower price and better quality. So no disagreement.

Whether your thread needed it's own or could have been added to another is splitting hairs and a bit of red herring to be honest. Nonetheless, it needed to be said. But all I'm saying is I could see how some might not want several threads going at the same time on a similar topics. The admins and I think the forum members have done a good job for instance with 5 Star threads and consolidating them, flagging them to be consolidated, etc. I've seen this happen at least 5 or 6 times now. Could you imagine the first two or three pages filled with "help me figure out what to order or how to measure or has anyone ever ordered the Seal Goat" etc.

Again, not trying to censor info, just can see how some might want to see it organized.

 

[NYDRH]

As a relative outsider on TFL but someone who is not unfamiliar with many internet fora, I am pleasantly surprised by the overall collegial atmosphere here. To offer that outside perspective, I find the tone to be very polite and thoughtful in stark contrast to what is generally available on the internet.

I have learned quite a bit from the wealth of knowledge here.

I have also been following this topic for the past few weeks and I've found it balanced and thoughtful. @jeo's concerns were sincere and founded on legitimate issues and I do believe he weighed that all careful with concerns about harming a business. It seems clear to me that the general intent is to get at the truth and inform the group. I struggle at times thinking what potential fallout could be to someone's livelihood but I have not found there to be an intent to harm. I have seen how certain reviews can have an outsized impact on businesses both positive and negative but I genuinely find that to be an issue that all businesses are subject to in today's business environment.

I do hope the benefits I've received from the collective knowledge continues and I appreciate everyone's interest and passion.

 

[handymike]

Stick around @NYDRH !
You will find this forum and the jackets quite addicting.
The congenial tone is something we take pride in, after-all it’s more fun to hang out with friends.

 

[jeo]

no need to disagree because I don't think we're disagreeing. I was saying in the future this could be played by those who don't have fair intent (not you), but also that that's not a reason to stop posts like this because this community can make those decisions themselves and flesh out the bad seeds.

There were a lot of threads that were starting up that were shades of the same issue--Himmels quality to price, Himmels flat out quality, Responsibility of consumer to inform vendor before public outing, and then I think your thread was the last, essentially wrapping up all the previous topics (quality issue which you raised, wasn't addressed by vendor, and now you were going public). Again, not saying that's wrong at all. I had a similar catharsis with Five Star.

Only speaking for myself, the message was received by the previous threads. Your post as I said was just the cherry on top (i.e. just adding more evidence to something that I had already decided on by the previous posts). I don't remember exactly what I said in that thread, but it was something to effect of Himmel needs to do a lot better at his price point since there's several other options of similar high end leather and lower price and better quality. So no disagreement.

Whether your thread needed it's own or could have been added to another is splitting hairs and a bit of red herring to be honest. Nonetheless, it needed to be said. But all I'm saying is I could see how some might not want several threads going at the same time on a similar topics. The admins and I think the forum members have done a good job for instance with 5 Star threads and consolidating them, flagging them to be consolidated, etc. I've seen this happen at least 5 or 6 times now. Could you imagine the first two or three pages filled with "help me figure out what to order or how to measure or has anyone ever ordered the Seal Goat" etc.

Again, not trying to censor info, just can see how some might want to see it organized.

Well you effectively said that my thread was "more of the same".

"Was it just another similar post with several other threads happening at the same time... If I'm being honest, then I would say yes it was."

That's what I was respectfully disagreeing with.

I was bringing something completely new to the table. Something that I believe is extremely valuable info to people here.

 

[jeo]

I don't know how @jeo can remains so calmly about this, it is quite insulting and extremely disrespectful to get your post (after spending a serious amount of work create this post) deleted without given a legit reason.

No need to get upset. The truth will find it's way to the light one way or another.

In fact, it's quite the opposite. I've been really overwhelmed and happy with the amount of support that the amazing people of this great community have shown. That is why I love this place!

 

[Jin431]

No need to get upset. The truth will find it's way to the light one way or another.

In fact, it's quite the opposite. I've been really overwhelmed and happy with the amount of support that the amazing people of this great community has shown. That is why I love this place!

Looks like we as a community (of leather jacket heads) look out for our own and that is really nice to know. We got you, bud.

 

[jeo]

Looks like we as a community (of leather jacket heads) look out for our own and that is really nice to know. We got you, bud.

Thank you brother!

 

[navetsea]

I've seen Jeo's thread and thought hmm strange maybe it was quietly taken cared off through PMs between him and the manufacturer so the OP took down his own thread, didn't think mod took it down and the stitching along the main zip on the leather facing side is obviously wonky and easily get filtered by QC if they want to throw away a thin strip of shinki and replace the facing with another, or do something at least acknowledge it when sending the product to see if the customer is willing to accept it as is or need a fix. in the end everyone is judged by their own claims, talk the talk walk the walk style.

despite the name "forum" they are privately owned, and not a democratic place at heart, sure we can voice our opinions but in the end it is like we are guesses at someone else's open house party.
moderators keeping things in balance since it is also important for the forum to stay alive with many traffics or new member to join to gain adv revenue to keep it free and a leveled playing field to everyone, otherwise they would need donations from members to stay afloat and people who donate get a special something in return and that get downward spiraled.

so my take on this... calm your heart everyone, chill, just say BOOO, and shrug it off... keep it light hearted

 

[JMax]

FWIW, I’m on team Jeo on this one.

That said, por favor remember that many of the mods are also contributing members of the forum. And for a damn long time. They are part of whatever we is out there.