Wouldn't it be a shame if this thread gets locked/removed too?

[Jin431]

i find it odd and disappointing that mods are recently locking threads or removing them all together for people to voice their concern and opinion. When a certain discussion is about a members individual experience with a certain maker (recurring theme) it seems mods are quick on putting a stop to it without any explanation why. Pls enlighten us for transparency sake.

 

[Jin431]

@Jin431 I think this thread might be received the wrong way. I posed a question in the ask a question thread to clarify TFL’s policy on when and why threads get locked up.

I hope not. I saw your post and wanted to reply as well but I don't want that threads discussion to cascade and end up being closed or removed as well. Atleast if I open a seperate thread there would be no issue like that.

 

[Jin431]

The title of this thread seems a bit like bait to me...just sayin’

i hope not. I was going to reply those same exact lines last night to the chevalier bis thread but I fell asleep and then I woke up anf my instinct have been confirmed. I'm sure mods can take a little ribbing too as that would be no fun if they perceive it like that

 

[Monitor]

Censoring TFL means no other source of truthful info on leather jackets online.

 

[Will Zach]

Locking up threads which criticize manufacturers is fairly common on products-oriented forums. I have seen it on electronics forums, etc. I think the reason is that forum owners feel the manufacturers could become forum sponsors and excessive crapping on them obviously makes it less likely. I think compared to other forums TFL is actually pretty lenient - they let ppl voice opinions, but lock the threads when the discussion has "run its course".

 

[Peacoat]

Locking up threads which criticize manufacturers is fairly common on products-oriented forums. I have seen it on electronics forums, etc. I think the reason is that forum owners feel the manufacturers could become forum sponsors and excessive crapping on them obviously makes it less likely. I think compared to other forums TFL is actually pretty lenient - they let ppl voice opinions, but lock the threads when the discussion has "run its course".

The discussion in question had more than run its course when it was locked.

 

[Marc mndt]

The discussion in question had more than run its course when it was locked.

But what about the deletion of @jeo thread. Like @Superfluous stated:

"The prior thread was started by someone else, based on their individual experiences with Himel. I understand the decision to lock -- not remove, but lock -- that thread after the extended discussion ran its course. Importantly, that discussion remains available as part of the TFL data base for future research and reference.

Jeo posted about a completely different interaction with Himel that was not mentioned in the prior thread. Yes, the same manufacturer was at issue. That said, the existence of a recent discussion concerning the same manufacturer should not bar or preclude Jeo from sharing his unique experiences. Himel is not suddenly immune from further discussion, particularly when the experiences raised by Jeo were not previously shared. This is new data and, by removing the thread (as opposed to locking it), you are denying the TFL community the new data and additional information that allows them to make informed decisions."

Why was Jeo's thread deleted? Which house rule was violated?

 

[Jin431]

The discussion in question had more than run its course when it was locked.

Okay if that is the rules but maybe it would have been nice to read/hear the reply of the maker regarding that particular topic?

 

[Harris HTM]

But what about the deletion of @jeo thread. Like @Superfluous stated:

"The prior thread was started by someone else, based on their individual experiences with Himel. I understand the decision to lock -- not remove, but lock -- that thread after the extended discussion ran its course. Importantly, that discussion remains available as part of the TFL data base for future research and reference.

Jeo posted about a completely different interaction with Himel that was not mentioned in the prior thread. Yes, the same manufacturer was at issue. That said, the existence of a recent discussion concerning the same manufacturer should not bar or preclude Jeo from sharing his unique experiences. Himel is not suddenly immune from further discussion, particularly when the experiences raised by Jeo were not previously shared. This is new data and, by removing the thread (as opposed to locking it), you are denying the TFL community the new data and additional information that allows them to make informed decisions."

Why was Jeo's thread deleted? Which house rule was violated?

And why was the Chevalier bis thread locked without any single explanation (an excuse was given many hours later and only when we complained about it).
Regarding Jeo's thread, the mod answered in the Chevalier thread:
''As a reminder: Once a thread is locked, an end run may not be made by starting a new thread on basically the same topic. That new thread will be summarily deleted.''
Sorry, but if I read this well we should never ever again discuss issues or brands that lead to threads getting locked. Does this mean no more torn sleeves and stitch count talk here, no more skivving and glued seams, no more SB?
I think that the continuous lockdown and a potential serious health problem at home has mentally affect me and probably I'm too strict. My apologies to the moderators (who do an excellent job) if they get offended at that. But none of the last actions here make much sense to me.
Probably time to take a break.

 

[MrProper]

From the other closed thread:
"As a reminder: Once a thread is locked, an end run may not be made by starting a new thread on basically the same topic. That new thread will be summarily deleted."

The question is who decides or what are the criteria for everything being said in a thread and that it can be closed?
If a new thread arises immediately after closing a thread, then there still seems to be a need for discussion.
Why do the moderators step in when the participants exchange their opinions in a peaceful and civilized manner? If decency and morality are violated, that is of course something else. But that wasn’t here

 

[handymike]

In the past, mods have “cleaned up” or “removed” certain posts, but kept the original thread in-tact.
I feel this is an appropriate way to handle the long standing Chevalier thread.
It is a valuable insight into a jacket buyer’s experience, and should survive IMHO.

 

[Riu]

In the past, mods have “cleaned up” or “removed” certain posts, but kept the original thread in-tact.
I feel this is an appropriate way to handle the long standing Chevalier thread.
It is a valuable insight into a jacket buyer’s experience, and should survive IMHO.

I think keeping the original thread is indeed the best way to handle situations like these. From my experience, removing the thread is never a good thing as people shared their personal opinions and, as long as they're not being abusive or disrespectful there should be no reason for removing a thread.

Transparency is what the forums should offer, each maker has its own website so that should be their private space where they can do whatever they want if they have a forum or whatever. I completely understand that we don't have the same experiences but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to express ourselves.

Having worked in a customer service environment for some time I do understand what evasive answers do. Unfortunately, they never go well with customers/users. It would be a shame to have people leave because they are being shut down without having done anything wrong.

Just my two cents.

 

[Monitor]

I don't want this to become a drama nor do I want to add fuel to the fire but the way I see it...

Deletion of Jeo's thread would be justifiable under only two circumstances:
1. If Jeo was proven to be lying
2. If Jeo's issue has been resolved and Jeo regardless decided to complain

If nothing of the above is the case, Jeo's thread was deleted for no reason.

Jeo's thread wasn't a continuation of anything - It was simply a thread about his negative experience with a certain maker and the fact that it appeared at the same time as another thread highlighting negative experience with the same maker, regardless whether said discussion had or hadn't run its course, is completely irrelevant as it was not a continuation of the same discussion nor was it technically related to it.

 

[dannyk]

I’m an admin on some FB pages. One in particular is politically oriented. That leads to some heated discussions. Especially with FBs ever changing clampdown rules on language and political affiliations.
So first let me say I’ve never had an issue with the admins/mods on this page. In fact I’ve asked for their help once or twice and they’ve responded wonderfully. They have been nothing short of great.
But secondarily as and admin on that page I absolutely delete harmful language or dangerous links. But if things go off the rails or run their course we have decided to leave them up-and leave an official admin comment stating why they’ve been locked; then lock them. We want people to see what went down, why it’s wrong, what can be learned from it; and to preserve the comments and thoughts that did not violate anything. I think going forward if the admins/mods of this page could adopt that tactic it would be most beneficial. It seems there is agreement on this. It’s a hard job because when you’re doing it right you don’t get much thanks. When you do it right, most people won’t even know you’re doing anything at all. When a mistake is made it makes it seem like you’re terrible and awful. That’s why I wanted to thank you and take the time to express that thought. You guys have done great. But I would recommend thinking about what we’ve done on my FB group and seeing if it can be applied here.

 

[ton312]

I don't think anybody here posts with the intention of "piling on" or throwing anyone under the bus. Jeo (who happens to be an esteemed member) with an incredible collection of jackets, spanning a variety of makers, has more than earned the right to have his say. In fact he was the ONLY member who was hesitant about posting anything negative in the hype thread because he doesn't want to impact a makers livelihood! If there is a single member among us that would post without bias or malice, it is Jeo.

If we as a community cannot share honest appraisals of jackets in this place, regardless of the current climate around other threads...what is the point? People come to this place to learn. I've probably received 50 messages from brand new members about bootleggers, who join this forum, pick my brain and disappear or never post a single thing. I am happy to help. We all are and that's what makes this place so great! But if we can't share the good with the bad then all forum user credibility and more importantly maker accountability has been lost. I love this site, it's one of the few social media platforms I actively participate in. I would hate to see it diluted in a way that makes it less than 100% genuine.

 

[jeo]

I don't want this to become a drama nor do I want to add fuel to the fire but the way I see it...

Deletion of Jeo's thread would be justifiable under only two circumstances:
1. If Jeo was proven to be lying
2. If Jeo's issue has been resolved and Jeo regardless decided to complain

If nothing of the above is the case, Jeo's thread was deleted for no reason.

Jeo's thread wasn't a continuation of anything - It was simply a thread about his negative experience with a certain maker and the fact that it appeared at the same time as another thread highlighting negative experience with the same maker, regardless whether said discussion had or hadn't run its course, is completely irrelevant as it was not a continuation of the same discussion nor was it technically related to it.

It isn't the case and I can prove it.

 

[Carlos840]

And why was the Chevalier bis thread locked without any single explanation (an excuse was given many hours later and only when we complained about it).
Regarding Jeo's thread, the mod answered in the Chevalier thread:
''As a reminder: Once a thread is locked, an end run may not be made by starting a new thread on basically the same topic. That new thread will be summarily deleted.''
Sorry, but if I read this well we should never ever again discuss issues or brands that lead to threads getting locked. Does this mean no more torn sleeves and stitch count talk here, no more skivving and glued seams, no more SB?
I think that the continuous lockdown and a potential serious health problem at home has mentally affect me and probably I'm too strict. My apologies to the moderators (who do an excellent job) if they get offended at that. But none of the last actions here make much sense to me.
Probably time to take a break.

Interrestingly, my review of the Chevalier was also removed from the Himel website without me having asked anything.
The Himel website mentioned the review in question was originally posted on TFL, so anybody seeing it on the Himel website could have come to TFL and seen the updated pic version.
A closed thread dies and sinks to the bottom, i think someone just wanted that thread gone forever.
And it just happens that we are currently not allowed to post pics of Himel jackets or discuss them in any way.
Weird coincidence...

 

[Ayeteael]

 

[Imuricecreamman]

Interrestingly, my review of the Chevalier was also removed from the Himel website without me having asked anything.
The Himel website mentioned the review in question was originally posted on TFL, so anybody seeing it on the Himel website could have come to TFL and seen the updated pic version.
A closed thread dies and sinks to the bottom, i think someone just wanted that thread gone forever.
And it just happens that we are currently not allowed to post pics of Himel jackets or discuss them in any way.
Weird coincidence...

I don't think we need to get overly paranoid here. Locked threads still show up in google and in your thread on the "Chevalier" still offer a huge amount of credible information to potential buyers.
Deleted threads are totally different animal and having read Jeo's contributions over the last couple of years I have nothing but utter confidence in the validity of his post. I would like to give the mods the benefit of the doubt that they were just slightly triggerhappy in deleting that thread, but I feel a response from them on the issue is warranted at this point.

 

[Edward]

Very few threads are deleted. The original Chevallier thread is still available; it has been closed for now because - though this doesn't appear to occur to many! - the team on here have jobs and lives outside of our (entirely voluntary) contributions on here. It'll doubtless be reopened when we've had time to prune it of irrelevance and the significant inaccuracies about *how TFL works* which have recently cropped up there, OT. Closed threads do not, fwiw, sink any faster than a thread which no longer receives posts - it's not a magical 'disappearing'. If they have run their course but are considered to have elements of merit left, they remain available for anyone who wishes to search for them.

Forum members may find it useful to refer to this explanation of what "vendors" are on TFL.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/merchants-and-the-fedora-lounge.52323/

TFL is not paid for vendor status. The 'vendor' label simply means they have been identified as such for the convenience of members, both to contact for information, and to be aware of seller status for sake of transparency. No money or other benefit changes hands for this. All accusations to the contrary are false.