would you live back in time?

[pigeon toe]

Funny, I'm none of those things... and I strongly feel that I'd fit in rather nicely. Why you ask? Well, because I'd educate those I come in contact with and defend the right thing no matter what. I'd set the example, and not be one of the sheep!

I thought that's what I was doing right now.

Anyway, I'm just going to say it simply: I was not intending to claim that everyone was racist/homophobic/sexist, whatever. I was just stating that we have come a long way since the early half of the 20th century, and I don't think I would like to live in an environment where my lifestyle would be less accepted and made more difficult by the majority. Simple as that.

Also, I suggest you read the book before you say that he is writing from the "Hispanic perspective". The fellow may be Latino, but he does not give a biased representation of the riots or zoot suiters. He gives a historical account, not a personal account.

Okay, I'm done.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think we need to step back and not paint an era with such a broad brush. After all, like it or not, we were raised by people who had roots in that era---parents and grandparents. Somehow they managed to create this generation with all of the values we have to day---good and bad.
I don't judge people in the past by present day standards just as I would not want to be judged by the standards of 60 years into the future. Without the historical context and knowing every single person from that era, you have no idea who was what. Let's just step back and take a long look in the mirror before we start casting those isms around.

Precisely the point I was making earlier. Cultural enlightenment didn't just drop out of the sky one day in 1965 -- a lot of people for many years prior to that were laying the groundwork, and they rarely get the credit they're due, especially in discussions like this one. To broadly condemn the early-mid 20th century generation as nothing more than a lot of "-ists" is to ignore the efforts of a great many ordinary people who recognized the flaws in the world they lived in and worked in their own way to change them, even in ways that might seem insignificant to us today.

An illustration. I once had the good fortune of spending some time with a gentleman by the name of Clyde Sukeforth. Unless you're a baseball fan, you probably have no idea who he was, but I can tell you he was an old Mainer, born in 1901, who went on to a middling career as a big-league catcher in the twenties, and then on to a more successful career as a coach and scout for the Brooklyn Dodgers. Clyde was a member of that "racist generation", a man who'd never had any contact with African-Americans in his life -- but he was a *fair* man, and an *honest* man, who couldn't see any possible reason why black Americans shouldn't have the same opportunities as white Americans.

And that's why he was chosen as the middleman between the Dodgers and a man by the name of Jackie Robinson, and the rest, as they say, is history. One man, not a politician, not a visionary, not an activist or a crusader -- just a regular small-town guy who knew there were injustices in the world and who did his small part to help change them. And I think we really need to take time and recognize that there were a *lot* more Clyde Sukeforths in that generation than modern folk ever bother to acknowledge.

 

[AmateisGal]

I think people should just respect everyone else's preferences as their own and call it a day... otherwise it just gets too serious and not fun anymore!

VERY wise words, Lauren! :eusa_clap If only more people everywhere would follow such good advice!

 

[jamespowers]

Precisely the point I was making earlier. Cultural enlightenment didn't just drop out of the sky one day in 1965 -- a lot of people for many years prior to that were laying the groundwork, and they rarely get the credit they're due, especially in discussions like this one. To broadly condemn the early-mid 20th century generation as nothing more than a lot of "-ists" is to ignore the efforts of a great many ordinary people who recognized the flaws in the world they lived in and worked in their own way to change them, even in ways that might seem insignificant to us today.

An illustration. I once had the good fortune of spending some time with a gentleman by the name of Clyde Sukeforth. Unless you're a baseball fan, you probably have no idea who he was, but I can tell you he was an old Mainer, born in 1901, who went on to a middling career as a big-league catcher in the twenties, and then on to a more successful career as a coach and scout for the Brooklyn Dodgers. Clyde was a member of that "racist generation", a man who'd never had any contact with African-Americans in his life -- but he was a *fair* man, and an *honest* man, who couldn't see any possible reason why black Americans shouldn't have the same opportunities as white Americans.

And that's why he was chosen as the middleman between the Dodgers and a man by the name of Jackie Robinson, and the rest, as they say, is history. One man, not a politician, not a visionary, not an activist or a crusader -- just a regular small-town guy who knew there were injustices in the world and who did his small part to help change them. And I think we really need to take time and recognize that there were a *lot* more Clyde Sukeforths in that generation than modern folk ever bother to acknowledge.

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap
A lot of small steps make a big stride.

 

[RetroToday]

I could live back in time, my only trouble is generating the 1.21 gigawatts to get there!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV_Dh2zvwLI

 

[Forgotten Man]

I thought that's what I was doing right now.

And I'm doin' it in my small humble way right now too.

I just get upset when people feel they would be consumed by the ill and the bad another generation was overly associated with. They seem to decide right there that they'd be unhappy in another time because of what the general world thinks.

My Grandmother Smith loved the Latino culture, she even taught Spanish in high school through the 60s. She learned the language perfectly and could speak it very well. She had no ill words towards any race. I can't recall her ever speaking bad about any minorities. She was born in 1914 and passed away in 1994... Just before her 80th birthday.

She didn't make any huge changes that would be remembered in any history books, but she is just one of those many who didn't fall into one of the "ist's".

 

[Forgotten Man]

And p.p.s. Thanks so much for your nice comment about how I could make cool costumes back then. It was very sweet.

I just don't like seeing such talented people selling them selves short. To automatically claim they'd be poor wile possessing such skill is a sin to discount their capability in adapting to another environment. I could see you making costumes for M~G~M or Warner Brothers, and on the side, having your very own design line to sell on the side for those who want the "Hollywood" look!

You'd be a success, and don't ever think any different! I could see ya enjoying a nice large piece of property out side the city in a beautiful Spanish Hacienda, surrounded by orchards, tending a rose garden, playing with your pets and enjoying the fruits of your labors.

 

[scotrace]

This thread asks a good question, and reetpleat spent a fair amount of time thinking about his original post and framing it to carefully keep us thinking within the confines of that post's concept.

So let's please stay on topic, and away from the rest of it, which has been hashed and rehashed here before.

 

[Lauren]

I just don't like seeing such talented people selling them selves short. To automatically claim they'd be poor wile possessing such skill is a sin to discount their capability in adapting to another environment. I could see you making costumes for M~G~M or Warner Brothers, and on the side, having your very own design line to sell on the side for those who want the "Hollywood" look!

You'd be a success, and don't ever think any different! I could see ya enjoying a nice large piece of property out side the city in a beautiful Spanish Hacienda, surrounded by orchards, tending a rose garden, playing with your pets and enjoying the fruits of your labors.

Well, if that's the truth I'd go back tomorrow or maybe after Sunday... Thanks again!

 

[Forgotten Man]

Well, if that's the truth I'd go back tomorrow or maybe after Sunday... Thanks again!

It is the truth! We'll all be goin' back to the TEENS on Sunday!

 

[Miss 1929]

So true

Funny, I'm none of those things... and I strongly feel that I'd fit in rather nicely. Why you ask? Well, because I'd educate those I come in contact with and defend the right thing no matter what. I'd set the example, and not be one of the sheep!

That's what I have noticed people saying they'd be forced to believe one way if they lived back then... Not true! America was a free country then, that's why so many different people moved here in the 20th Century!

You know I don't fit in with the world today, I dress in 30s-40s fashion, I drive an old car, I really do little that most people do today, but, are there people making fun of me? You bet there are! I endure my own kind of predigest... people who don't understand me for who I am. We know we get screw ball comments from people today because we like what we like!

Just because everyone is jumpin' off a cliff don't mean you have to!

And that's why so many people want to live in the "live and let live" Bay Area too.
I just wouldn't want to be in a place long-term that was so restrictive.

And yes, we are all into "dressing up weird" as some would see it - that kind of behavior was much less tolerated before the 60s than it is now!

The whole "nostalgia" thing is really a modern item. People liked antiques, liked costume parties, but if you walked down a small town street in the 30s wearing an 1890s costume, people woud definitely think you had several screws loose.
"predigest"? Is that prejudice? Freudian...

 

[jamespowers]

I think any moral person has an obligation to look back and judge history. Otherwise, it could happen again.

Judge not lest you be judged and it might be in a much worse light.
Santayana simply said to learn from history---not to judge it based on what is currently de rigueur. [huh]

 

[scotrace]

We really do want to keep this thread open.

 

[LizzieMaine]

An excellent simple overview of the Zoot riots, including primary source newspaper clippings, can be found here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/zoot/ The newspaper clippings are especially interesting -- Hearst journalism at its most inflammatory, and unfortunately typical of the overall tone of West Coast journalism at the time. There's no question that whatever incidents may have occured before the riots erupted, they were fanned into flame by irresponsible journalism. (Neither the first, nor the last time that would happen, alas.)

 

[jtcarrey]

I'll give my two cents, I'd love to live back in time! The music, the clothes, the stars, the opportunities. Today, I look at life and wanna puke, people make me sick, everyone has a freakin agenda and feel they have to prove some crazy point by the way they dress, talk or act. I am happy though that my co-workers don't think I'm weird when I wear 40's clothes at work, they actually compliment me, I've never really encountered anyone who talked bad about my 40's clothes. Except one guy at my old job, but who cares, I wear what I wear because I like it and heck, it looks ALOT better than crap they sell in stores today. If I could live back then, then I would love to have been friends with my grandmother and her siblings, that would be a real treat. And to see Glenn Miller LIVE omg... I mean really, I'm not complaining about our world today but I do complain about some of the ideals people have today. However, I've learned to ignore alot of people, most people these days are childish, inconsiderate and naive. Let them deal with their own problems, I'll take care of mine in my "old shabby" home in the hills with my "dusty old" furniture and my "broken down rusty old" car, HA at least I have taste...

and yea, I'm sure there were people back then who are like they are today but all of the elderly people I know have a good head on their shoulders, you know why, because their parents weren't committed for training their children to have good manners. These days people think you're an abusive parent if you get mad at your kids, but in the Bible it says "spare the rod, spoil the child". I would never want to hit my kids but being a parent, I'd want to train them up right, like my great grandparents. Sorry I'm just going off on a tangent now, grrrrrrrr!

 

[LizzieMaine]

The whole "nostalgia" thing is really a modern item. People liked antiques, liked costume parties, but if you walked down a small town street in the 30s wearing an 1890s costume, people woud definitely think you had several screws loose.

There was actually a woman here in small-town Rockland, Maine during the '30s who did just that. Her name was Lucy Farnsworth, and she's still remembered with awe by those who knew her -- her father made a fortune in the lime-quarry business in the 19th century, and she was his only surviving heir. She took the money he left her and became one of the richest women in New England by investing in stocks, bonds, and commodities -- and no one ever saw her wear anything but full turn-of-the-century regalia.

When she died in 1935, her house was found to be exactly as it had been forty years earlier -- nothing had changed since before the turn of the century. It remains this way today, as a museum connected to her most prominent legacy, the Farnsworth Art Museum.

Bizarre eccentric, or just an extreme nostalgic -- who knows. She might very well have had a few screws loose, but her fashion sense, at least, didn't seem to bother her bankers too much.

 

[jtcarrey]

There was actually a woman here in small-town Rockland, Maine during the '30s who did just that. Her name was Lucy Farnsworth, and she's still remembered with awe by those who knew her -- her father made a fortune in the lime-quarry business in the 19th century, and she was his only surviving heir. She took the money he left her and became one of the richest women in New England by investing in stocks, bonds, and commodities -- and no one ever saw her wear anything but full turn-of-the-century regalia.

When she died in 1935, her house was found to be exactly as it had been forty years earlier -- nothing had changed since before the turn of the century. It remains this way today, as a museum connected to her most prominent legacy, the Farnsworth Art Museum.

Bizarre eccentric, or just an extreme nostalgic -- who knows. She might very well have had a few screws loose, but her fashion sense, at least, didn't seem to bother her bankers too much.

That's neat! When I get my new house, I hope it's as original as possible.. I hate it when they renovate *cough cough DESTROY* old homes.. makes me sick! Good for Mrs. Farnsworth for not letting anyone sway her into thinking she needed to blend.

 

[Bill Taylor]

There were interracial couples back then, not as common as today, but there were! From those I spoke to who lived then, I have determined that racial intolerance was mostly on the eastern and southern side of the US. West coast areas weren’t as racist as the Bible belt or other parts of the states… look at Lucile Ball… she married a Cuban! And she had a very popular TV show in the 50s!

Actually, California was one of the later states to allow inter-racial marriage, in 1959. Eastern seaboard states had done away with those laws a few years earlier, starting in the later 40's, I think. Before that, inter-racial marriage was illegal in all states. The south, as would be expected, delayed until the federal government forced all states to allow inter-racial marriage in 1967. At that time, as I recall, there were still about 12 or 15 states which had not abolished those laws until forced to do so. We lived in San Francisco from 1958 to 2006, and in the earlier years of that period, San Francisco was much, much less liberal than today. In reality, it was somewhat conservative, in the 50's and early 60's especially.

Bill Taylor

 

[Chas]

Would I live back then, if given the choice? Absolutely. For me it would place my birthdate somewhere around 1920.

I suppose that being "vintage" would presuppose that I would be unorthodox in that time as well - "bohemian", probably.

If I had a choice to visit for an extended time it would be NYC in the years after the war - and live within a block or two of 52nd St.; spending all my free time in the jazz clubs.

 

[Chas]

I'd have wanted specifically to miss the 1986 World Series. Because if I wasn't already dead, that would've killed me.

Poor Bill Buckner. A steady 1st baseman who is forever maligned by one bad play.[huh]