would you live back in time?

[reetpleat]

Over the 15 + years I’ve collected odds and ends, as I’ve learned about the past… and feeling a very unique and special tie to it, I have to say that when someone asks me why I’m so interested in it, why I try and live life as it was then (Exception being the computer) I really haven’t a good answer for them.

Why is it that I’ll be at a dance at Fort McArthur, being surrounded by period togged visitors and seeing all sorts of preserved equipment and classic cars… then hearing the echoing sound of Helen Forrest singing Skylark floating on the air in a very haunting manor as the rain falls ever so slightly… wile walking dressed as a Civil Defense officer, I have to fight down tears of emotion… why is that? Am I missing something I once knew? Or, am I just crazy?

What cheeses me off most about “The Now” is the serious lack of romance regarding relationships, as well as everyday things. I’ll be at a dance and a nice ballad comes on and the floor empties… or people gripe: Why do they play this slow stuff? And so many choose a career over marriage and raising families... I just don't understand I figure. I don't like working but, I have to do it... why do so many today feel they wouldn't be happy if they didn't have a high paying job? Remember that 70-80 years ago, we used to have the gold standard... and you could buy things for less because people made less... the money really meant something... a dollar could go a long way! Food for a week didn't cost over $100 bucks; it would cost no more then a few dollars to get food for a week. It all balances out. There were also a lot more “Mom and Pop” business, not as many large corporations coming in and buying up everyone and eliminating the competition. It really was possible to peruse the “American dream”… not so much today.

I have lots of stuff… I mean, if I did go back in time, I wouldn’t have that much… but, would I need that much? I don’t think I would. I only have as many clothes as I do and I hold on to them for dear life because, once they’re gone, they’re gone! If I lived in the 30s and was one of the lucky ones to have a job, I’d be tickled to have only a few suits that I really liked… I could actually fit all my clothes in a small closet! Have a few appliances, have maybe only 2 radios and not 25. lol

Looking at it closely, and pondering it, I’d like to give it a shot for a year… and if I can’t hack it, then I have the choice to come back… and if I do well in that time, then I have the choice to stay.

One last thing, then I’ll lay off of the novel length comments… there’s an old timer who helps my mechanic at the garage I take my car to. A nice, funny old guy, a WWII veteran, a Navy man… he’s in his 80s and works on his own car still! And I talk with him ever so often and I asked him what he thinks of today compared to yesterday. He said he doesn’t like it. I asked him if I had a time machine, would he go back in time… he answered YES! Didn’t even think twice… said he’d go back to the 1920s! He also told me that the 30s were hard times, but he said they always found a way to enjoy something or manage to make ends meet... I then asked him what about the lack of modern medicine back then; he replied: Well, that wouldn't be fun but, I don't care... I'd leave here before things got really ugly! lol

It may be that many of us enjoyed a past life in the era we love so much. Or it may just represent something deep inside us we connect to.

One wonders, if you know nothing about the 40s and all of a sudden were dropped there, would you have that same emotional response? Maybe.

One also might wonder, if we were all back in the 1930s, would we meet weekly and discuss our enthusiasm for the victorian era, and be regaled of stories of last weekends event from the civil war reenactors.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Thirdly, I just can not justify the internment. No Germans wre interned, nor would they ever have been.

While I agree with your basic point -- the internment camps were not America at its finest -- I have to disagree with this specific statement. In fact, nearly 11,000 German and German-American civilians were interned as "enemy aliens" between 1941 and 1945 at a variety of camps scattered around the country, under a program adminitered by the Department of Immigration and Naturalization. Surviving internees have an organization, the German American Internee Coalition.. Most of these German internees were held under discipline considerably more strict than that governing the Japanese relocation camps.

The Japanese relocation program was seen as high-handed and unnecessary even by many at the time: it was implemented despite strong oppostion and a formal protest to the President by J. Edgar Hoover himself.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Unfortunately, my grandmother left it tangled. I managed to get it all out but the lead with the eye on the empty spool came loose. As far as I know, it works but I have to find a new lead to tie the wire to when I change the spool.
I suppose it doesn't matter which way the wire unrolls from the spool? [huh]

Well, there's only two ways to wind it -- if you've got it the wrong way, you'll hear the sound backwards, so it's easy enough to spool it off and wind it the opposite way if you've got it wrong.

In a pinch you can attach the free end of the wire to the spool with a bit of masking tape -- the eye is convenient, but not necessary.

 

[Kassia]

While I agree with your basic point -- the internment camps were not America at its finest -- I have to disagree with this specific statement. In fact, nearly 11,000 German and German-American civilians were interned as "enemy aliens" between 1941 and 1945 at a variety of camps scattered around the country, under a program adminitered by the Department of Immigration and Naturalization. Surviving internees have an organization, the German American Internee Coalition.. Most of these German internees were held under discipline considerably more strict than that governing the Japanese relocation camps.

It was not Canada's finest hour either.. But it was not the first time that immagants and their children were imprissoned during war time..
Ukranaians were interred in Canada in WW1..

 

[Lauren]

One also might wonder, if we were all back in the 1930s, would we meet weekly and discuss our enthusiasm for the victorian era, and be regaled of stories of last weekends event from the civil war reenactors.

This would totally be me. It is now, actually! I identify with what Forgotten Man says about being strongly drawn to eras, but I just am drawn to too many eras to just pick one! And historical costuming is so much better now than it was in the 1930s Marcel waves with panniers, anyone?

I guess I just have to be a time traveler with now as my home base. Jump around wherever and whenever. That would be fun. But not with my current economic status following me through all the eras. I'd hate to work in a shirtwaist factory at the turn of the century- just darn scary stuff, that.

I want to add, that I don't care one way on another with whatever people want to do Now or then, whatever makes you happy. If I could go back being a wealthy woman in the 30's, I'd pick it in a heartbeat- and go nuts on clothes- but not to the same spot I have now. Not saying I have it that rough now, I just know it would be harder then. And I like me internets and fancy computerized sewing machine.

 

[Real Swell Gal]

I think I already did.

 

[jamespowers]

While I agree with your basic point -- the internment camps were not America at its finest -- I have to disagree with this specific statement. In fact, nearly 11,000 German and German-American civilians were interned as "enemy aliens" between 1941 and 1945 at a variety of camps scattered around the country, under a program adminitered by the Department of Immigration and Naturalization. Surviving internees have an organization, the German American Internee Coalition.. Most of these German internees were held under discipline considerably more strict than that governing the Japanese relocation camps.

The Japanese relocation program was seen as high-handed and unnecessary even by many at the time: it was implemented despite strong oppostion and a formal protest to the President by J. Edgar Hoover himself.

They also interned many Italians as well. A local citizen here recalls his stepfather being interred during the war as he was declared an enemy alien as well. The Japanese get all the press but it was not just them that got placed in camps. [huh] If you know people old enough to remember, they will tell about one of their neighbors being placed in a camp during the war.
It was a mess and still one of the reasons why I don't declare exactly what I am for the census as the 1940 census was used to round up such enemy aliens. :rage:

 

[jamespowers]

Well, there's only two ways to wind it -- if you've got it the wrong way, you'll hear the sound backwards, so it's easy enough to spool it off and wind it the opposite way if you've got it wrong.

In a pinch you can attach the free end of the wire to the spool with a bit of masking tape -- the eye is convenient, but not necessary.

Ok, I am blessed to have you as a resource. Maybe I will try to get that thing going tonight. It will be the first time in 35 years that I have heard my grandfather's voice. I hope the darned thing still works.
I have this model(without the turntable option) in case you are curious. :

 

[reetpleat]

While I agree with your basic point -- the internment camps were not America at its finest -- I have to disagree with this specific statement. In fact, nearly 11,000 German and German-American civilians were interned as "enemy aliens" between 1941 and 1945 at a variety of camps scattered around the country, under a program adminitered by the Department of Immigration and Naturalization. Surviving internees have an organization, the German American Internee Coalition.. Most of these German internees were held under discipline considerably more strict than that governing the Japanese relocation camps.

The Japanese relocation program was seen as high-handed and unnecessary even by many at the time: it was implemented despite strong oppostion and a formal protest to the President by J. Edgar Hoover himself.

Well, what do you know. Very interesting info. Thanks.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Ok, I am blessed to have you as a resource. Maybe I will try to get that thing going tonight. It will be the first time in 35 years that I have heard my grandfather's voice. I hope the darned thing still works.
I have this model(without the turntable option) in case you are curious. :

Ah, then the threading instructions are just the reverse of what I said earlier -- full spool on your right, thread thru the head shell, and around the takeup drum on your left. Assuming the electronics are still good you should definitely hear something -- good luck!

 

[pigeon toe]

The Zoot Suit Riots of 1942 came about from rebellious, draft dodging, juvenile delinquents! Not all Hispanics were beaten by the Navy… it was a fight that started between the Navy and young Hispanic juveniles. You must read more into the story to understand WHY it happened… it’s easy to just say that all white males in the navy hated Mexican males in Zoot Suits… the thing is, the Zoot Suit stood as a symbol against patriotism, and fighting for right against an evil power that wanted to take our freedoms away. They were breaking the law, they were cowards to dodge the draft and not serve their country. And those who signed up didn’t appreciate being taunted by them Zoot Suiters. One can say it was all about race, well, I disagree on that score. There were Latinos and Blacks in the armed forces during WWII… in fact; there was an entire company of Asian Americans that fought! And how about the Tuskegee Airmen? First all Black fighter group… and they were respected and requested… why? Because they earned the respect by not losing any bombers they escorted to the enemy! They had a nearly perfect record!

I'm sorry, but you're really, really misinformed. I suggest you read The Power of the Zoot: Youth Culture and Resistance During World War II by Luis Alvarez. He presents a very fair, even account of the political and racial complexities that led up to the Zoot Suit Riot. Not all zoot suiters were sinners and not all servicemen were saints, that's for sure. Same goes for those who believe the opposite.

True, there were many non-white men in the military. But the ones who opposed the draft or joining the military did so because they felt they did not have the same freedoms and rights as white men did and therefore, they didn't see a reason to fight for a country that treated them as second-class citizens. I feel that decision is justified. Even if you disagree with it, that in NO WAY, WHATSOEVER justifies the violence enacted on them by service men. NOT AT ALL.

The Japanese American’s that were driven to camps during WWII in Arizona and such will always be brought up… now, I feel that one HAS to consider the time in which it happened. PEARL HARBOR WAS BOMBED!!! They started to play dirty, they weren’t playin’ by the rules, so we cut off oil trade with them… then, they plan to bomb us… and they did… and I have spoken to many people who remember that day… what a cold, heartless military and government to attack a sleeping harbor on a Sunday morning! Of course the US people will treat any Japanese citizen like dirt!Especially if they had a loved one who was killed in Pearl Harbor… ya have to take a look at how they saw it!

Yes, Pearl Harbor was a shock. 9/11 was a shock too (and that was a terrorist attack, not a military move during wartime). Does that mean all Americans of Middle Eastern descent should be removed from their homes and locked away in internment camps for an indefinite period? I'm glad to say we are more enlightened today. Many in my family knew people who died during the 9/11 attacks. It was devastating. But by no means did they want to see innocent Middle Eastern-Americans jailed for something they had no part in.

I bolded your second to last sentence there because I think it's a cockamamie statement. First of all, just because a lot of people felt racism was ok does not make it right or moral. Secondly, a lot of the people interned WERE US citizens, just of Japanese origin or descent.

It’s not a hate towards a race so much, it’s a hate towards the people who bombed them that morning. The camps they lived in were not ideal living areas, but they were a 100 no, 1000 times better then the camps THEY put our POW’s in… man, they were EVIL! And the camps in Germany and other countries were just abominable!

Hate the individuals then, don't punish those that share the same origins as them.

I'm sure POW prisons were horrific. I'm not doubting you on that one. But they locked up CIVILIANS in internment camps. People in the military know the risk of joining up and fighting for their country. Unfortunately the Japanese and their children did not know the risk of being Japanese-American in the 1940's.

What I said in the last part, what I meant was that most people cry out when someone makes a racist comment… and then tries to sue them for all they got… making a big noise over a word they heard. I say they should settle their differences or not pay any attention to people who say nasty things... people say nasty things to me, they say I’m too white… well, I am, what of it? Why should I choose to take offence to a racial slur? I don’t see any point in it.

Hmm...I don't know of any people actually sue for someone calling them a racial slur. Yes, sometimes things are taken too seriously, but honestly, if I'm not involved and if I'm not the one being called names, who am I if something is being taken "too seriously"? If being called names doesn't hurt you, wonderful! You have a good sense of self and self-esteem. However, those who have faces numerous injustices in a myriad of different ways just because of their race, gender, sexuality, class, ability, what have you, it probably is a bit more difficult.

It's my policy when hearing something from someone who's shoes I have not walked in to give them the benefit of the doubt and do my best to understand.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

We had this topic a few years back and I will say now what I said then:

No!

Why?

First of all, I'd be dead or dying by now.

Also, I intensely dislike the sexism, heterosexism, racism, and lack of opportunities for women and people of color that I remember when I was young -- and that was only the 50's

I would miss my computer. It is my public library, my dear companion; I love the thing and spend many happy hours on it. If I returned to even 30 years ago, I'd be without my beloved computer.

As for sexism, let me add this:

I had female friends who wanted to be doctors, but were persuaded to become nurses because girls did not become doctors. Well, some did -- 2 percent of all medical students in the 60's were women; half of them dropped out because of all the harrassment of male students, and, for those who did graduate, they could look forward to work in government clinics and/or pediatrics, where they made a lot less than the men.

And forget being a lawyer, they steered you towards a career as a secretary. Then you could work in a law office and find a lawyer to marry.
Whippee-s***.

When I was 12, Little League started. Many of the boys in our neighborhood signed up. I couldn't -- because I was a girl, even though I was a better ball player than many of the boys.

I wanted to take auto mechanics so I would know more about cars (this was 1959) and was told by my counselors, I couldn't do that because I was a girl. A boy had to petition the school board to allow him to take home economics, which he wanted to take because he planned to be a chef.

I was told by the phone company in 1965 that they could not hire me because I was "over-qualified," as I was a college graduate. All they could offer me was office work or being a switch-board operator. The men with my age and education were put in junior executive training progams.

I had gay friends who would go to bars, which were raided by the police, the gay patrons arrested and subject to intense grilling by cops (they did not know their rights in those days.i.e., they did not have to tell the police anything). Then, when they got specifics, it was reported in the newspapers, and many people lost their jobs and were shunned by family. Such were the times.

I have heard so many horror stories about racism from people of color. Hispanics who were shipped to Mexico, even though they were born here -- then brought back to the U.S. when the government needed them for the draft in WW II. African Americans who were hanged, killed, denied many jobs, not allowed to frequent places where white people gathered.

All the above prejudices and more angered me to the point that it catapaulted me to become a radical feminist in the early 70's and fight for the rights of women and minorities.

If I did find myself back in time, boy, would I put up a fight.

karol

 

[MsChantillyLace]

I wanted to take auto mechanics so I would know more about cars (this was 1959) and was told by my counselors, I couldn't do that because I was a girl. A boy had to petition the school board to allow him to take home economics, which he wanted to take because he planned to be a chef.

I wanted to take auto mechanics and was told to take an English course instead. Counselors as my high school had full control over scheduling, so there wasn't a way around it. This was in 2001. So much for progress, eh?




I think I'd have an issue working back in the 40s, specifically doing what I do. I know for a fact there was not a field for image consultants-- maybe in Hollywood I could work in wardrobing-- or in my local township, in garment making or tailoring. I also do lifestyle management, like personal errands and private event planning; they call me 'the corporate wife.' So, I probably wouldn't be "working," I'd be married.





Part of this question is a bit odd to me. If I go back in time with all of my friends and family around me, do they keep their knowledge and mindsets or do I only? Many of the people around me have careers that wouldn't exist in the past and don't have any particular similarities to careers in the past... so I think that would significantly change things. If I went back and everyone I knew went back with me with their current positions and things, I think that would change history quite largely.


K.D.'s post made me think of something further: I have probably 100+ friends that are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender. I know enough about history to know that in the past, these people would be quieter about their personal lives... if they weren't arrested or beated or fired first. I think this would alter dynamics of things greatly-- if I was friends with them in the 40s, I might not know them quite so intimately, or, others wouldn't be so pleased with our friendships. In a similar vein, one of my biggest clients is a high profile black lawyer-- and we wouldn't have even run in the same social circles back in the 40s. I think that's quite sad, as I've learned a great deal about art from him.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

MsChantillyLace:

Good post!

Did the counselors even bother to tell you (or did you ask) why they decided you should take English over auto mechanics?

An odd choice. They told me to take homemaking, which, of course, I didn't.

karol

 

[Miss Crisplock]

I'm sorry, but you're really, really misinformed.


"Yes, Pearl Harbor was a shock. 9/11 was a shock too (and that was a terrorist attack, not a military move during wartime)."


Pearl Harbor was more than "a shock". It was an attack during PEACETIME of ships at Harbor; ie. NOT FIGHTING or able to defend themselves, but in PORT.

This is the significance of Pearl Harbor. It was not a Naval Battle, it was a sneak attack that was against all the rules of engagement.

War was declaired AFTER Pearl Harbor, NOT before; the US declared war BECAUSE of Pearl Harbor.


I'm glad to say we are more enlightened today.

I think we are far less enlightened today, and I think moral relavancy is at the heart of that.

I bolded your second to last sentence there because I think it's a cockamamie statement.

I'm sure POW prisons were horrific. I'm not doubting you on that one. But they locked up CIVILIANS in internment camps. People in the military know the risk of joining up and fighting for their country. Unfortunately the Japanese and their children did not know the risk of being Japanese-American in the 1940's.

There is something called "justification" that seems to be at work here. Perhaps it has escaped your attention that their are rules to military engagement including Geneva convention. There is a wee bit of difference between the POW's say in Viet Nam, and Japanese, German and Italian internee's in WWII.

Give up?

THEY WEREN"T TOURTURED AND KILLED.

I believe this is the significant point, and rather worth mentioning and thinking about.


It's my policy when hearing something from someone who's shoes I have not walked in to give them the benefit of the doubt and do my best to understand.

I truely hope this is the case and you are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the people that lived through WWII and made decisions at that time for reasons that you have not attempted to understand.

 

[pigeon toe]

I truely hope this is the case and you are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the people that lived through WWII and made decisions at that time for reasons that you have not attempted to understand.

Of course I am not judging them. That's not what I am talking about at all. I find it absurd for today's modern individuals to not be willing to learn from history, re-examine it and look at history with fresh eyes as we are able to in the 21st century.

K.D., that was a really interesting post. Thanks for sharing your own experiences! I'm only 21 myself, so in my life experience sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. hasn't been that extreme. I do know that these things were highly prevalent back in the day though from academic reading and alternative histories. It's always nice to hear personal experiences though to really help to understand the reality of life in the 60's and earlier.

 

[Forgotten Man]

I truely hope this is the case and you are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the people that lived through WWII and made decisions at that time for reasons that you have not attempted to understand.

Thank you for that comment!

 

[Forgotten Man]

I'm sorry, but you're really, really misinformed. I suggest you read The Power of the Zoot: Youth Culture and Resistance During World War II by Luis Alvarez. He presents a very fair, even account of the political and racial complexities that led up to the Zoot Suit Riot. Not all zoot suiters were sinners and not all servicemen were saints, that's for sure. Same goes for those who believe the opposite.

Again, I believe that Mr. Luis Alvarez’s account is one angle on the riots. Now, why is it that so many feel that all the service men involved in the riots were all white? Now, it is my understanding that there were other service men of different cultures involved, that were supporting their ship mates and fellow service men in a fight against non war supporting rioters.

The people that were attacked were not attacked on the basis of race; it was more on the basis of not supporting the war.

As you may have read that also the German American Citizens and the Italian’s were interned into camps as well… but, chew on this… ever see the movie “Empire of the Sun”? Well it was about an American family that lived in Asia and they were interned into a camp by the Japanese during the war… and it happened in many countries… like Germany for instance, even the citizens of Germany were put into camps if they didn’t fallow the Fuhrer! I do not want to compare America with war time Germany, but I want to explain that due to security being so high, (thanks to the Saint FDR) even legal American citizens were interned into camps.

As for the WWII generation, and your thoughts about how they reacted, it must be great knowing how everyone should react in every situation at all times… must be great to be you.

 

[Miss Crisplock]

Dear PToe,

I messed up the quotes and have responded within your big quote.

You know I am quite fond of you, and do wish to keep this civil, but dear are you quite sure that you read the bits I wrote?

Miss C

 

[Flivver]

I don't think I'd have any trouble at all adapting to life in 1945. After all, having been born in 1951, I grew up in the 1950s, so that provides my frame of reference.

And I have to agree with others here that bringing a 1945 person into today's world would be such a huge culture shock for them that they might not be able to cope. Having lived through most of the time between 1945 and now, it's hard enough for *me* to adapt...even with the changes played out slowly over the years. But to hit a 1945 person with the changes all of a sudden would probably be too much for them to bear.

The person from 1945 would probably be delighted by some of the "Buck Rogers" technology changes they would find in 2008, but I think the social changes would be the hardest for them to accept.

Trust me...things are *really* different today!