MisterCairo
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Withnail's Coat
- Thread starter MisterCairo
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I'm rather embarrassed to say but I still haven't had time to be measured properly. There's only a couple of places here I can do it (smallish towns in Arctic Norway aren't awash with tailors or proper seamstresses) - as much as I love her, I don't trust my wife to do it properly so I want to get it done right, especially considering the cost of the coat. I'm hoping to get it done in the next week or so. Just difficult to juggle young kids and new job. I'll keep you all posted in this thread as I'm so keen on picking one of these up, plus here I reckon it'll get a fair amount of use around town during autumn and spring.
MisterCairo
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Norway?! I thought your location was more antipodian, if that's a word!
Edward
Bartender
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You'll find it on Amazon, from about eight dollars up on DVD. It's worth seeking out.
MisterCairo
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I second Edward's point!
MisterCairo
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I've sent a message to Andrea Galer, chatting about this and that, and asking details about the coat.
As for the allegation that she's not offering "the" coat, here are screens from her own site showing film stills with obviously different coats:
Go to this page and view the thumbnails - one clearly has the left-side pocket, one clearly does not:
http://www.andrea-galer.co.uk/fashion-store-1/mens-withnail-coat-1
I'm home and will upload pics shortly, but I confirm that my coat does not have the pocket.
More to follow!
As for the allegation that she's not offering "the" coat, here are screens from her own site showing film stills with obviously different coats:
Go to this page and view the thumbnails - one clearly has the left-side pocket, one clearly does not:
http://www.andrea-galer.co.uk/fashion-store-1/mens-withnail-coat-1
I'm home and will upload pics shortly, but I confirm that my coat does not have the pocket.
More to follow!
l0fielectronic
Practically Family
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Missing pocket aside, It looks to me like the version being sold is more what the coat would've looked like 'new'.
The cut of the coat in the film is certainly double breasted yet in that it fastens down the middle in a somewhat home made looking fashion, as if it were bought 2nd hand and tailored to fit by someone with little means or skill, as per the character in the film would've probably found.
Looks a lovely looking coat though if you can pull it off, a nice photo of one in the 'wild' here... http://mykebartlett.com/post/100791742425/my-withnail-coat
Looks like another tailor is also selling a version too - https://twitter.com/DaviesandSon/status/421575280390455297
The cut of the coat in the film is certainly double breasted yet in that it fastens down the middle in a somewhat home made looking fashion, as if it were bought 2nd hand and tailored to fit by someone with little means or skill, as per the character in the film would've probably found.
Looks a lovely looking coat though if you can pull it off, a nice photo of one in the 'wild' here... http://mykebartlett.com/post/100791742425/my-withnail-coat
Looks like another tailor is also selling a version too - https://twitter.com/DaviesandSon/status/421575280390455297
I can't open the site. Can you clarify for me are there two coats then? I'm still trying to understand this - not "accusing" anyone as I am not invested enough in this garment to be that emotional. I am unlikely to buy one but that doesn't mean I don't want to know the facts. What I can say is that Peter Botwright of Wested Leather, who made some of the jackets for Indiana Jones didn't get his pattern right until fans pointed out the problems using screen captures. So there is a famous precedent for makers not producing their own stuff accurately. I am sure Ms Galer is far more sophisticated than Peter, however.
MisterCairo
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Davies and Son isn't a competitor, they're the Savile Row tailors who work with Andrea Galer to measure the customers and make the bespoke version. This is the option I took and visited them for the fittings, meeting Andrea there in fact (there are several reasons the bespoke option is much more expensive!).
I hadn't read that article from the Aussie who bought a jacket, an interesting read from a fellow Withnalian!
Sean
I hadn't read that article from the Aussie who bought a jacket, an interesting read from a fellow Withnalian!
Sean
MisterCairo
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Hmm, not sure what the site issue is, it works for me from the link.
Anyhoo, Andrea got back - and HERE IT IS:
First - I was wrong about "differing" film versions, my viewing of the various screen shots and the film itself demonstrate my inability to interpret visual images! Here are Andrea's actual words to my actual question -
Sean - "Regarding the coat, I'm having a discussion on a vintage/retro weblog site about it. Someone has indicated that there is a breast pocket, left side, on some screen shots from the film. Other shots indicate a coat without the pocket (I have no pocket, and having seen the film over 100 times had never noticed one way or the other!).
Just a curiosity, but I know you've mentioned there were in fact several coats used in production - were there different designs?"
Andrea - "Yes on the original coat in the film there is a breast pocket and there is only one row of buttonholes down the middle, when I started to make it for the public I did some adaptations which make it more practical and balanced. For filming I made identical doubles of the shirts / waistcoats / trousers and coats all broken down to get through the filming schedule"
So, to summarize: One was a costume and one is a practical garment. Certainly not an attempt to deceive the public. As she's made just over 100 coats in nearly thirty years, it's a failed attempt to do so if it were.
If you're an Indy fan and want to COS play, go ahead and cry for a duplicate. If you want a lovely coat the same in essentials, made from uniquely created Harris Tweed (it's only made for Andrea), tailored at Davies and Son, 38 Savile Row, well, you know what to do.
Pics of my jacket to follow, I'm deathly ill at the moment and still playing jet lag catch up!
Sean
Anyhoo, Andrea got back - and HERE IT IS:
First - I was wrong about "differing" film versions, my viewing of the various screen shots and the film itself demonstrate my inability to interpret visual images! Here are Andrea's actual words to my actual question -
Sean - "Regarding the coat, I'm having a discussion on a vintage/retro weblog site about it. Someone has indicated that there is a breast pocket, left side, on some screen shots from the film. Other shots indicate a coat without the pocket (I have no pocket, and having seen the film over 100 times had never noticed one way or the other!).
Just a curiosity, but I know you've mentioned there were in fact several coats used in production - were there different designs?"
Andrea - "Yes on the original coat in the film there is a breast pocket and there is only one row of buttonholes down the middle, when I started to make it for the public I did some adaptations which make it more practical and balanced. For filming I made identical doubles of the shirts / waistcoats / trousers and coats all broken down to get through the filming schedule"
So, to summarize: One was a costume and one is a practical garment. Certainly not an attempt to deceive the public. As she's made just over 100 coats in nearly thirty years, it's a failed attempt to do so if it were.
If you're an Indy fan and want to COS play, go ahead and cry for a duplicate. If you want a lovely coat the same in essentials, made from uniquely created Harris Tweed (it's only made for Andrea), tailored at Davies and Son, 38 Savile Row, well, you know what to do.
Pics of my jacket to follow, I'm deathly ill at the moment and still playing jet lag catch up!
Sean
Doctor Damage
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Great to learn that she's straight-up about this and doesn't try to bullsh*t around stuff, like I'm sure some would do in her place. I totally support making garments a bit more practical and useable as long as the 'spirit' of the thing is maintained, which certainly seems to be the case in this case.
MisterCairo
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Smithy, had those measurements taken yet?!
Well that clears things up. It's a Withnail-style coat. Not saying that to be hurtful or nasty, it's just a statement of fact. It's important to know this when ordering.
I don't know why you keep coming back to words like dishonesty when I have never suggested motive. You don't need to overdo the chivalrous defence of AG whose work I have a high respect for. My concern is when someone says they produce a copy of something that it actually is a copy. I was worried that AG had adapted the pattern and it turns out she has. The intentions are pure and the jacket does look wonderful, but it isn't the same. Many people may not care about the details but it does take something away for me.
I suspect the Indiana Jones jacket variations (different pockets, introduction of inside facings, different collar and seams) were also a case of the maker intending to improve the jacket or make it more efficient in the manufacturing process. Peter has certainly hinted at that.
I don't know why you keep coming back to words like dishonesty when I have never suggested motive. You don't need to overdo the chivalrous defence of AG whose work I have a high respect for. My concern is when someone says they produce a copy of something that it actually is a copy. I was worried that AG had adapted the pattern and it turns out she has. The intentions are pure and the jacket does look wonderful, but it isn't the same. Many people may not care about the details but it does take something away for me.
I suspect the Indiana Jones jacket variations (different pockets, introduction of inside facings, different collar and seams) were also a case of the maker intending to improve the jacket or make it more efficient in the manufacturing process. Peter has certainly hinted at that.
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My goodness Sean - what a glorious piece of self-serving sophistry.
All my arguments are as you quote them and I cheerfully stand by them - but if I wanted to call AG a fraud, I would have done so directly.
Perhaps deep down you believe AG is somehow lacking credibility, since you keep jumping to this f-word and have conceded that the jacket has been modified. It's curious how you need to keep defensively pointing out that the garment is from Saville Row (not a piece of costume trash for the likes of Seb Lucas and cosplay losers who should buy their stuff from a Toronto shop of dubious repute). Maybe that's why you appear so irritable, deep down you feel aggrieved and in some way compromised by the changes to the jacket pattern.
Let me defend AG for you. She took a coat and innocently improved on the design to make it, in her eye, a better garment. She called it a Withnail Jacket (since it was based on that garment) knowing that many fans would like to own it. She made it beautifully and in identical fabric. She wasn't to know that at least one fan would miss the breast pocket and original buttons and that this fan would struggle to understand why the garment had been changed. His not unreasonable question: why produce a replica if it isn't a replica?
I think it would be useful if AG had a sentence on her site saying she has adjusted the pattern and why. Whether you like it or not Sean there are people who are into their reproductions being accurate. In fact it wasn't me here who noticed the difference in the jackets it was two others. It doesn't have to be about cosplay losers.
And you know what? If this information had been conveyed at the very start, I would have thought "OK" and moved on.
I'm happy to put a line under this long and unnecessary argument (which I am sure is boring others) and look forward to seeing your coat, Sean, since I am a huge fan of tweed and have owned a couple of long tweed overcoats form the 1930's.
For the record - I have collected coats and jackets for 35 years and was buying and selling vintage Savile Row suits (amongst others) and outerwear in Melbourne in the 1980's when few were interested. Being preoccupied with detail is not just for cosplay (in which I am not involved) it's also for collectors, which I have been.
All my arguments are as you quote them and I cheerfully stand by them - but if I wanted to call AG a fraud, I would have done so directly.
Perhaps deep down you believe AG is somehow lacking credibility, since you keep jumping to this f-word and have conceded that the jacket has been modified. It's curious how you need to keep defensively pointing out that the garment is from Saville Row (not a piece of costume trash for the likes of Seb Lucas and cosplay losers who should buy their stuff from a Toronto shop of dubious repute). Maybe that's why you appear so irritable, deep down you feel aggrieved and in some way compromised by the changes to the jacket pattern.
Let me defend AG for you. She took a coat and innocently improved on the design to make it, in her eye, a better garment. She called it a Withnail Jacket (since it was based on that garment) knowing that many fans would like to own it. She made it beautifully and in identical fabric. She wasn't to know that at least one fan would miss the breast pocket and original buttons and that this fan would struggle to understand why the garment had been changed. His not unreasonable question: why produce a replica if it isn't a replica?
I think it would be useful if AG had a sentence on her site saying she has adjusted the pattern and why. Whether you like it or not Sean there are people who are into their reproductions being accurate. In fact it wasn't me here who noticed the difference in the jackets it was two others. It doesn't have to be about cosplay losers.
And you know what? If this information had been conveyed at the very start, I would have thought "OK" and moved on.
I'm happy to put a line under this long and unnecessary argument (which I am sure is boring others) and look forward to seeing your coat, Sean, since I am a huge fan of tweed and have owned a couple of long tweed overcoats form the 1930's.
For the record - I have collected coats and jackets for 35 years and was buying and selling vintage Savile Row suits (amongst others) and outerwear in Melbourne in the 1980's when few were interested. Being preoccupied with detail is not just for cosplay (in which I am not involved) it's also for collectors, which I have been.
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MisterCairo
I'll Lock Up
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As I get ready to photograph my Withnail coat, I came across this Guardian article on trends the film Withnail & I have influenced:
http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/...-trends-it-influenced-and-how-to-get-the-look
http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/...-trends-it-influenced-and-how-to-get-the-look
MisterCairo
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Holy auto-correct Batman, I had to edit my last twice as it corrected "Withnail" to "Withal"!!!
MisterCairo
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Hey, I just re-read this - who you calling "short" at 5"10"?!?!?!
I'm 5'10" and bald (not sure what you consider "fat", I'm down to 161 after a LOT of working out and proper diet).
I'll post a pic or two shortly with the coat on, it was tailored for me at a heavier weight, probably in the neighbourhood of 180, hopefully it'll hang well enough!
Thoughts and comments will be appreciated!
Edward
Bartender
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Heh.... That would have been me to whom I was referring....
I'm 5'10"; always consiered myself 'short' because I stopped growing at under six foot - though I gather the average these days is 5'8"? Back in my Frank'n'Furter days, my heels took my up to six three, which I loved!
Bald-wise, I've been shaving my head for a decade come next June... (though there's significantly less of it to shave off than the small bald spot I originally was trying to hide!). Alas, width-wise, I've somehow ended up six inches bigger round the middle than I'd like to be (I've given up on ever being the 28" waist I was when I was eighteen, but I'd settle for ten inches over that rather than sixteen and change!). It certainly doesn't get easier to fight that one now I'm old!
MisterCairo
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It certainly doesn't get easier to fight that one now I'm old!
As I know from some of your earlier quotes you are about a decade younger than I am, may I respectfully ask WHO ARE YOU CALLING OLD?!?!?!?!?!