Will we ever see a return to more formal clothes?

[The Good]

Come to Los Angeles for a few days.

It's true. I see them at my campus pretty often. These "longs," they're popular around here, I guess. Usually this look is accompanied by a flat-bill baseball cap, the hip hop or rapper kind, and a baggy t-shirt, hoodie, or sometimes a ski jacket in these colder months.

But my observation is that around L.A. County, people are usually casual, and even more so during the summer time, although that's understandable.

For the record, I wear a tie two to three times a month. Sometimes for church, sometimes just to go to my classes with. Wearing one makes me more confident about my personal business. I think it's kind of sad that they're starting to fall out of use, within the last decade or so, but then again, I don't wear one too often myself.

 

[Widebrim]

I'm certainly not the first to suggest that the necktie as a standard piece of men's attire is gradually going the way of the fedora. I'm not prepared to bet my own money on that proposition, but I wouldn't bet against it, either.

Even though the necktie survived the upheaval of the late-'60s/early-'70s, it seems self-evident that the wide-spread shift to extreme casualness, even reflected to a certain degree in the corporate world, has virtually pounded the proverbial last nail in the coffin. Just about the only men of society among whom ties still flourish (and are actually a necessity) are politicians. To many, the necktie truly is a vestigial remnant of formality, a convention which is itself deemed antiquated and irrelevant. To these people, the aesthetic value of a tie, and its potential role in expressing some kind of individuality, is hardly (if at all) taken into consideration.

 

[Widebrim]

Come to Los Angeles for a few days.

Unfortunately true! And if you still want to see homeboys with the long shorts and knee-high, white socks, spend some time in South-Central and Eastern L.A.

 

[Yeps]

Come to Los Angeles for a few days.

It's true. I see them at my campus pretty often. These "longs," they're popular around here, I guess. Usually this look is accompanied by a flat-bill baseball cap, the hip hop or rapper kind, and a baggy t-shirt, hoodie, or sometimes a ski jacket in these colder months.

But my observation is that around L.A. County, people are usually casual, and even more so during the summer time, although that's understandable.

That is annoying then, because they will probably come back here after a while then. Maybe it is a subculture difference though, because I am much more likely to see either madras shorts or gym shorts. Maybe chunky cargo shorts on the nerdy types (aka my friends). In the music school, once it is warm you see much more fitted shorts in various colors, green, red, etc, which are not as long either, but again that is because there are many more, shall we say, fashion oriented guys especially in the musical theatre department.

 

[Pompidou]

Two steps down, one step up, two steps down, one step up, two steps down... That's how I see it. There'll be a return to more formal clothes, but not a full return to a past milestone/threshold. I see the future of suits as the blazer/sport-coat with a pair of trendy jeans, before the concept of suit becomes something wholly foreign to what we understand a suit to be.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

With the trend toward casual going further and further as time goes by, I don't think you'll ever see it come back. It's a shame, really.

 

[John in Covina]

Actually, don't we see a big difference as to the popularity of suits by regions and by profession?

I think that there are areas that will continue to be suit strongholds and keep it alive as a tradition.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Agreed, suits, I think, will always be in style for professional situations. I just don't think you'll ever see people just 'out' in a suit like you did once upon a time.

Actually, don't we see a big difference as to the popularity of suits by regions and by profession?

I think that there are areas that will continue to be suit strongholds and keep it alive as a tradition.

 

[rgraham]

shakeshead While there may be slight periodic corrections, it will never again be as it was.

I agree 100%. De-evolution is the clear trend. Each generation brings the threshold down further than the last.

 

[Shangas]

I would love to see a return to more dignified dressing. I don't know about FORMAL dressing, but certainly more dignified.

My dad insisted I wear a pair of jeans to my cousin's wedding last year. I nearly had a heart-attack. I immediately balanced it out with a waistcoat and double albert watch-chain. One has to retain a certain level of class in such an important event as a wedding ceremony.

 

[Mike in Seattle]

A somewhat humorous story, and it's even true....

I have been a member of my local volunteer fire department for about 16 years. Several years ago I even served a couple of one year terms as the fire chief. Once while I was chief I responded to a fire from church. I had worn a suit to church, so I removed my jacket and dress shoes and stepped into my bunker gear still wearing my suit pants, shirt and tie. After the fire was out I took one of our trucks to a convenience store to refill the fuel tanks. I walked into the store still wearing the bottom half of my bunker gear with my white shirt and tie. The clerk gave me a really odd look. I just smiled at her and said "I'm the fire chief". She smiled back and nodded her head as if that explained everything.

I would've probably said, "It was a formal fire..." or something like that. "Black tie only," or instead of Casual Friday, say it was "Formal Friday at the fire department."

 

[Mike in Seattle]

I think that there will be a return to more formal clothing--the pendulum inevitably swings back--yet I don't think that it will be universal, but rather limited to a certain stratum of society.

Exactly what I was going to say. Kids rebel against their parents and don't want to dress looking like them. Since we now have all the 30-40s parents dressing in short-shorts or baggy shorts with crotch-at-the-knee (as another poster posted) wearing T-shirts for dressy occasions, I think we'll be seeing "rebel kids" start dressing up.

 

[Shangas]

A very interesting assessment, Mike_In_Seattle. One that I agree with. I certainly see it in myself.

My mum and dad are very informal people. To the point that if I wore a tie, mum would complain I'm WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY overdressing. I'm serious. I wore one for Chinese New Year and she nearly had a heart-attack.

It's natural for children to want to forge their own paths. This instinct, combined with a love of history and the past has probably been responsible for my current style which is kinda semi-formal. It's not suits but it's not jeans and singlet with flipflops either. It's a comfortable, upper-smart-casual kinda look that doesn't look like you're a try-hard but which you at least look like someone respectable.

 

[Edward]

Seems I grew up in a rather more formal place than the US or Aus... but it is changing.

I remember a few years back we had my niece's baptism. I was the godfather. And I was the only man in my family to wear a suit and tie. Her own father basically informal clothes.

My cousin's wedding, a few years ago as well--No tuxes. Just suits with no ties.

I am my niece's godfather; I was the only man under sixty in that church in Belfast in a suit. Little brother tucked his shirt in, though, which was a significantly more formal step than some! Church is become quite an informal thing for younger generations in my experience - at least for the white folks. In ine, there is a very pronounced difference between the average, casual (within reason, though, they are some standards!) white folks and the black folks who really go to town.

Yep. My family attended a friend's wedding where the groom and his men wore matching Converse sneakers..[huh]

This is why you people have the Second Amendment. At the very least, someone needs to blow a whistle, hard, in their ear and order them out of the gene pool. What bothers me there is less the lack of formality, more that there are people who think it's clever to do this sort of thing, and turn their own wedding into a joke.

I work in the IT department of a large organization. Our last gasp at true formality was about six years ago when our department head required managers to wear shirts and ties (for men), and a nice pants suite or blouse and skirt, etc. for the women. That policy went by the way side when that manager left, although there is a company dress code for white collar employees that's basically slacks and a shirt or polo. That policy seems to be interpreted very liberally by managers and employees alike. Recently, I was on a panel that was interviewing candidates for an executive development program. One of the criteria on which the candidates were being graded was dressing appropriately for the interview. Silly me, I assumed that since we were grading the interviewees on dress, I should wear a tie for the occasion. No one actually said anything to me, but I did get a brief double-take from the (tie-less) senior executive who was leading the panel. It's not unusual for even the executives at corporate headquarters to not wear ties, or equivalent if they are female.

Little brother is a programmer. I remember him coming home from his first placement interview back in the day, complaining even more bitterly that my folks had pushed him into wearing a suit as "the guy who interviewed me was in jeans!". lol

I would love to see a return to more dignified dressing. I don't know about FORMAL dressing, but certainly more dignified.

My dad insisted I wear a pair of jeans to my cousin's wedding last year. I nearly had a heart-attack. I immediately balanced it out with a waistcoat and double albert watch-chain. One has to retain a certain level of class in such an important event as a wedding ceremony.

Was it a deliberately casual ceremony? Strange choice, I've never been to a wedding where jeans would have been considered at all acceptable!

I do believe it will change eventually. The influence of pop culture like Mad Men, and rebellion against the uber-casual norm. When you have grown adults wearing their pyjamas in public, there is nowhere else left to go on the casualisation front. At least not unless they all start wearing Mumus. FWIW, the last few years have seen the corporate here in London backing rapidly away from the "dress down Friday" culture.

 

[John in Covina]

I would love to see a return to more dignified dressing. I don't know about FORMAL dressing, but certainly more dignified.

My dad insisted I wear a pair of jeans to my cousin's wedding last year. I nearly had a heart-attack. I immediately balanced it out with a waistcoat and double albert watch-chain. One has to retain a certain level of class in such an important event as a wedding ceremony.

Wow, really, jeans? For me this is inconceivable, unless it was written in part of the invitation as some sort of theme.

 

[John in Covina]

I agree 100%. De-evolution is the clear trend. Each generation brings the threshold down further than the last.

That was well put.

 

[John in Covina]

There is a lot of interesting comments that point to some of the sociological questions as to the who and why.
In the past we had kids that wanted to be like their parents and would work at being just like dad or girls wanting to be just like mom. however there was always some that rebelled and pushed at going their own way. This is part of human nature too so it is part of the mix but in the past the place of the parent was given a lot of re-enforcement in the community so a portion that wanted to rebel did not.

At some point, we see a shift in the power of the parent and the power of the child or teen. I am thinking that it has to do with a shift where people begin to indulge the children. After WWII we see an explosion of goods like toys and clothes marketed to kids and teens. Some of you may recall seeing some type of argument between child or teen and parent over an item or clothing. I think that the marketing appeal to kids and teens is one of the wedges that was driven between parents and their children and helped along the split and rebellion.

As a result many parents today simply don't act or dress grown up and echo the teens and twenty somethings look to try to be hip in their childrens eyes to try to stem a divide over clothes and dress.

now it may be the nature of rebelling but this may actual push some to chose dressing up as an act of individuality and rebellion?

 

[scottyrocks]

Come to Los Angeles for a few days.

Yeah, or Brooklyn.

 

[Tiller]

Two steps down, one step up, two steps down, one step up, two steps down... That's how I see it. There'll be a return to more formal clothes, but not a full return to a past milestone/threshold. I see the future of suits as the blazer/sport-coat with a pair of trendy jeans, before the concept of suit becomes something wholly foreign to what we understand a suit to be.

The suit has survived well over a hundred years, and I don't see it disappearing anytime soon. I don't see it becoming the normal wear for the "average joe" again either, but I hardly see it being replaced completely, and especially not by a sports coat.

The suit survived bell bottoms and afros, and it will survive cargo shorts and sideways ballcaps. The cut maybe different, and the materiel it is made out of may change, but the suit will survive. The suit is like a military uniform, you tend to be able to tell the time period they where from just by looking at them, and perhaps only the highest ranking members of society are going to be wearing them everyday, but they will never disappear completely.

As far as will formal clothes return? Yes. For most of us on the board it hasn't gone anywhere. Will it be the 1930's all over again? No, but the extreme casual style of the late 90's- the teens will eventually be seen as anachronistic as the leisure suit is today. The fashion of the 80's was a rejection of the fashion of the late 60's and early 70's, as time goes by the fashions of today are going to be replaced. Some of us may not like what comes next, but your going to see the return of more conservative clothing eventually.

Not to mention that extreme casual style isn't the universal viewpoint everywhere in society. Here in the hills of upstate New York the "country/redneck" look is still very much dominate, and is anything but urban once you get away from the cities. The Ivy League/preppy style is still in, and their are many subcultures that have their own sense of fashion that doesn't follow the mainstream, such as Goth, Punk, Trad, Emo, yada yada. Extreme casual will eventually go out of style, and personally I believe it is on it's way out and you will start seeing noticeable changes in the next 5-10 years.

Agreed, suits, I think, will always be in style for professional situations. I just don't think you'll ever see people just 'out' in a suit like you did once upon a time.

If I ever meet up with you Tom we'll go have a night on the town dressed to the nines. Women are drawn to men wearing a well fitted suit sense the first question on their lips is usually "Why are you in a suit?" . lol

I would love to see a return to more dignified dressing. I don't know about FORMAL dressing, but certainly more dignified.

My dad insisted I wear a pair of jeans to my cousin's wedding last year. I nearly had a heart-attack. I immediately balanced it out with a waistcoat and double albert watch-chain. One has to retain a certain level of class in such an important event as a wedding ceremony.

The last time I saw my old man he attempted something similar to me when I was going to a family friend's wedding. I told him to dress how he likes and I'll dress how I like, and for him to stop worrying. I'm 25 years old though, and I no longer live under my father's roof.

I found out later that the reason he was having a fit was because he felt if I was going to be dressed in a suit, that he would at the very lest have to wear a tie, and he simply didn't want to. IDK how old you are, but the next time your father tells you how to dress I'd tell him to take care of his own clothes and not to worry about yours lol.

 

[JimWagner]

If the economy continues to be bad and competition for jobs becomes worse I actually believe we'll see a return to suits in the white collar workplace. Despite the relaxed dress codes today wearing a suit to an interview can be the needed edge over the competition. If managers see wearing suits advantageous to their own continued employment then the pendulum will surely swing back towards more formal dress codes. If employees see new employees wearing suits and they want to make sure that how they dress doesn't become a factor in layoffs, then they'll wear suits.

The trend towards informal workplace attire really has its roots in a time when employers were competing for employees and the relaxed dress codes were both an attractor for new employees and a retention device for good employees.

Conversely, with a glut of potential employees, imposing dress codes again to demonstrate employer control over staff who feel like they cannot leave for another job is almost inevitable.

Just my opinion, of course.