Will Aero be posting the joint statement on their own website?

[wdw]

Surely raising the hide issue is a clear indication of honesty. Aero could easily have dealt with a very few individual cases on the quiet and this board would have had several hundred less generally negative posts. All Aero have done by being honest is subject themselves to expensive rebuilds, production delays, loss of income and also loss of goodwill.

Also, having notified via their website that prices would rise in October due to increased costs, when Ken found out that the problem was caused by the previous management and wasn't ongoing, he cancelled the price rises and is now suffering because of that honest decision.

Aero's honesty has cost them dearly.

 

[HorseHide]

I hope - and want to believe that - you're right WDW (you've had a chance to meet some, or all, of the players face-to-face; the rest of us are communicating via email or the occasional call).

 

[caffeinated]

Surely raising the hide issue is a clear indication of honesty. Aero could easily have dealt with a very few individual cases on the quiet and this board would have had several hundred less generally negative posts. All Aero have done by being honest is subject themselves to expensive rebuilds, production delays, loss of income and also loss of goodwill.

Also, having notified via their website that prices would rise in October due to increased costs, when Ken found out that the problem was caused by the previous management and wasn't ongoing, he cancelled the price rises and is now suffering because of that honest decision.

Aero's honesty has cost them dearly.

I think they've done more than that. For starters, they've put an end date to the problems. Now you can definitively say an Aero jacket made after November 2012 is what it is represented to be. (Assuming you take them at their word, which I think we all want to do.) By extension, I think in the future people will be suspect of used jackets on the market that were made during the tenure of the guy who just left. I don't know exactly when he started, but I'm sure someone around here does.

Also, and probably more importantly, by putting the issue out there themselves they also eliminate the bad PR that would come from having the issue discovered down the road by a third party. This was a smart move by Aero, and of course, the responsible move. It's short-term pain for long term gain. They will be fine. They still make a good product.

 

[ForestForTheTrees]

Also, and probably more importantly, by putting the issue out there themselves they also eliminate the bad PR that would come from having the issue discovered down the road by a third party. This was a smart move by Aero, and of course, the responsible move.

That's the thing, if Aero's goal is to reach out to their customers in a responsible way, I don't believe that making a statement on one internet forum qualifies as such. A statement on their own site along with an email distribution to their customer list would be a responsible approach. As it stands now, they risk further jeopardizing their reputation by failing to inform most of their customer base of this news while divulging it only to a select number of people who participate on this forum. I think that Aero will weather the storm based on the quality of their product, but the way this situation is being handled seems that it will end up doing them more harm than good.

 

[caffeinated]

That's the thing, if Aero's goal is to reach out to their customers in a responsible way, I don't believe that making a statement on one internet forum qualifies as such. A statement on their own site along with an email distribution to their customer list would be a responsible approach. As it stands now, they risk further jeopardizing their reputation by failing to inform most of their customer base of this news while divulging it only to a select number of people who participate on this forum. I think that Aero will weather the storm based on the quality of their product, but the way this situation is being handled seems that it will end up doing them more harm than good.

A cynical person might say that this way they can honestly say they put the information out there, without actually having to put it on their website. Technically being honest without telling the majority of their customers.

A charitable person might say they told this forum because this is where all the crazy leather-obsessed customers are. We are the ones most likely to care.

You pick.

 

[garzo]

Regarding Aero's VAT policy, I would guess that they don't have a say in the matter and have to charge sales tax. Normally it's up to the customer to apply for the VAT refund, either at the airport if an item was bought while on an overseas trip, or via an online VAT refund agency. The U.K. must have one. I know Ireland has such a website.
Isn't sales tax usually included in items sold on online shops in the U.S.?

 

[GriffDeLaGriff]

If the customers country is not in the European Eunion, then the selling company "have" to reduce the VAT for the customer. They can offcourse say "we don´t want to do business with you" if they can´t be bothered (it *is* some paperwork).

It is almost impossible to get the VAT back after it has been paid. I went through a 15 paper and 8 week prosess to get my VAT back for a jacket repair (a jacket I already paid VAT on on the original recieving when new) and the answer was "no".

So for me, its either pay the price or don´t buy at all.

 

[hpalapdog]

Regarding Aero's VAT policy, I would guess that they don't have a say in the matter and have to charge sales tax.

No, sales going outside of the EU can be sold vat free as long as proof of shipping is filed. Most companies exporting do this as it gives them more competitive pricing.

 

[Aerojoe]

VAT is pure evil When a company buys hide, it has to pay VAT. When they make a jacket, the jacket has VAT again. When a second hand shop sells the very same jacket, it has VAT again, and there isn't any added value there. There is no better way to damage one country's economy and competitiveness abroad.

 

[hpalapdog]

VAT is pure evil When a company buys hide, it has to pay VAT. When they make a jacket, the jacket has VAT again. When a second hand shop sells the very same jacket, it has VAT again, and there isn't any added value there. There is no better way to damage one country's economy and competitiveness abroad.

That's not true. Only the end user pays. Companies reclaim the VAT on inputs. Your also wrong on second hand goods. The margin scheme means VAT is due on the difference between the buying in and selling price.

 

[Fanch]

The VAT issue was thoroughly discussed in an earlier thread and finally closed by the moderator.

 

[ForestForTheTrees]

A cynical person might say that this way they can honestly say they put the information out there, without actually having to put it on their website. Technically being honest without telling the majority of their customers.

A charitable person might say they told this forum because this is where all the crazy leather-obsessed customers are. We are the ones most likely to care.

You pick.

In this case it's the customers that end up finding out on their own through 2nd hand information that would do the choosing.

 

[caffeinated]

In this case it's the customers that end up finding out on their own through 2nd hand information that would do the choosing.

Very true. And they probably won't be happy.

 

[Edward]

Very true. And they probably won't be happy.

There seem to be a few in these parts are determined not to be.

 

[Aerojoe]

That's not true. Only the end user pays. Companies reclaim the VAT on inputs.

Yes it is true. A company can do VAT regularization but the tax is still there destroying a country's economy. And if you don't believe it, just look at what people from abroad think of Aero and VAT. It is damage or not?

Your also wrong on second hand goods. The margin scheme means VAT is due on the difference between the buying in and selling price.

In my town whenever I go to a second hand shop and I put one of my jackets for sell, they have to collect VAT. The only way to avoid VAT is selling direct to another particular.

 

[majormajor]

In my town whenever I go to a second hand shop and I put one of my jackets for sell, they have to collect VAT. The only way to avoid VAT is selling direct to another particular.

Here is how it works in the UK:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/start/schemes/margin.htm

 

[hpalapdog]

Yes it is true. A company can do VAT regularization but the tax is still there destroying a country's economy. And if you don't believe it, just look at what people from abroad think of Aero and VAT. It is damage or not?



In my town whenever I go to a second hand shop and I put one of my jackets for sell, they have to collect VAT. The only way to avoid VAT is selling direct to another particular.

I'm VAT registered in the UK. The same rules apply throughout the EU.

Aero do not collect VAT on non-EU exports. None is due to the tax man. They keep the money for themselves. IE. it is their choice to "destroy" themselves, as you put it, with prices 20% higher than they need be !

A small business with a turnover bellow circa £75k is not required to be registered for VAT. They do not charge VAT on sales nor do they reclaim any. If they do register it is their choice if they use the margin scheme or not for used goods. For example, if I sell you a used car through my business for £1000 and I acquired it for £900, I only need to hand over £20 to the tax man. In practice preparing the car has a cost and the VAT on that can be reclaimed. The total VAT due is likely to be zero. Same applies to antiques etc.

 

[Sloan1874]

Really, this is an arcane discussion with little to be gained. In the end, you buy a jacket or you don't.

 

[Jeff M]

The VAT issue was thoroughly discussed in an earlier thread and finally closed by the moderator.

Yes.
Rather disappointed that that action was taken.

Figured it would rear it's head again.
The issue was being discussed politely.
It is one that definitely affects many forum members.
It has affected my purchase decisions.

 

[W4ASZ]

There seem to be a few in these parts are determined not to be.

He shoots, he scores !!! :eusa_clap