Will Aero be posting the joint statement on their own website?

[ForestForTheTrees]

i was getting ready to post this in the "Horween USA and Aero Joint Statement" thread, but a number of people were already getting upset by the size of that thread. So, I'll bring this up as a new thread and maybe someone here can help me connect the dots.

Much has been shared by Aero here on the Fedora Lounge recently regarding a number of employees who have parted ways with the company. Most of the information shared has shown these former employees to be less than trustworthy. This has seemingly culminated in the revelation, via a very specific statement and subsequent discussion participation, that some of these employees were responsible for intentionally mis-labeling steerhide jackets as horsehide in order to sell them to unknowing customers as such.

Aero indicates in the statement posted on this forum that any customers who feel they might have purchased such a jacket can contact them about having their jackets inspected and if appropriate the jacket will be replaced. It's an impressive gesture to reach out to members here on the forum. However, I can't understand why this statement hasn't been posted on the Aero website (I just checked and see no signs of it thus far) to reach a wider range of customers so that they might benefit from this information as well. Or to put it another way, why only extend this offer to Fedora Lounge members? Aero could post this news on their website and simply indicate that the problem has been recently discovered and that they want to make things right. There would be no need to go into all of the details of who misrepresented what. Only the details of how to go about having a jacket inspected would need to be covered.

My apologies if this post upsets anyone but if Aero's intention is truly to correct a wrong experienced by any customer along with always telling the truth, it would seem that they would start by doing so on their own website as opposed to this forum.

 

[HungaryTom]

To duplicate all that stuff once again???

 

[majormajor]

Makes sense to me to put it on their site. I have had to tell two friends who are not on FL, but who do have orders in. They still thought 3 months was the waiting time.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Hmmm...This (from Aero's website) is interesting...

29 Nov 2012

First of all I have to apologise that Aero Leather Clothing has inconvenienced many customers all over the world due to serious delays in fulfilling outstanding orders, especially in the busy Christmas period.

Former Managing Director left Aero Leather Clothing Ltd at end of September together with some staff from the factory. They left behind a huge mess, a badly disorganized office and a huge backlog of outstanding orders.

As a founder and the major shareholder of Aero Leather, I have returned to the company along with a considerable number of former Aero staff to reorganise the factory up and get the production running smoothly again.

So, please bear with us and allow us to do what we do best, making fabulous leather jackets. We will fulfil our orders even if there is a delay, we are working really hard to cut the waiting list to an acceptable time. We are now working from 6:00 to 21:00 7 days a week to try to fulfil as many orders as many as we can in a timely manner.

Hiro from Aero Leather Japan came to the factory last week to help sort out a schedule for outstanding Japanese orders last week.

I can guarantee that Aero Leather will be an even better company in a couple of months' time.

Again, I will be extremely grateful if anyone with an overdue order could be patient while we get back to running the company properly, how it was in the past.

Thank you

Ken Calder

Found and Chairman of Aero Leather Clothing Ltd.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

To duplicate all that stuff once again???

Yep.
More 'ifs' and 'whys'

*if* Aero's intention is *-truly-* to correct a wrong experienced by any customer along with always telling the truth, it would seem that they would..Blah Blah blah**

Yeah..wonder what they're 'truly' up to..?(never mind the Christmas workload). Surely something quite sinister. Absolutely questionable enough for another thread...wouldn't you think! [huh]
..Again...'Why' not contact Aero directly..and ask 'them'.?

 

[majormajor]

I guess some folks believe the world revolves around FL.

Putting a statement re Horween hides on Aero's site would duplicate nothing, because there's currently nothing there...

I, along with many on here, have the utmost respect and support for what Ken & Holly are trying to do, but surely, the folks who aren't members on here should be made aware of such an important issue.

PS. "why not contact Aero directly" is not so easy right now - they are snowed under with Emails about Horween hides........:eeek:

 

[Equality 7-2521]

Also that statement says nothing about the hide issues but more a general issue problem. I also respect Aero but I like to remain objective about things as well.

 

[schitzo]

There are a lot of people on here giving it the 'bravo aero... what a wonderful company you truly are... such honesty is so refreshing... you've done the right thing.... we'll love you forever' spiel.

But have they really done the right thing in coming clean about this?

Specifically, if a guy is happy with his steerhide jacket why not just let him be. If he's not happy he is free to contact the factory of his own volition at any time at which point they would have the option of setting him straight (if applicable) on any mislabelling issues.

Christ knows I can't be bothered to trawl through all of that other thread but of the pages I did read the overriding impression I take away with me is that it's very very difficult to distinguish between the two hides and that both are very good quality leathers. So whilst I can see what the 'wrong doing' is here I think my point ultimately has to be, who gives a ***t?

I say embrace the mystery and just enjoy your aero jacket; steer or horse it's a goodun

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Well..just by looking at the increasingly long Aero Announcement thread here on the FL...I might see why Aero wouldn't want to open this up on their site(worldwide) while trying to reorganize a mess in order to fill Christmas orders. Just a thought...

 

[COLORADO]

Finally a FL member which says the main part.:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

i was getting ready to post this in the "Horween USA and Aero Joint Statement" thread, but a number of people were already getting upset by the size of that thread. So, I'll bring this up as a new thread and maybe someone here can help me connect the dots.

Much has been shared by Aero here on the Fedora Lounge recently regarding a number of employees who have parted ways with the company. Most of the information shared has shown these former employees to be less than trustworthy. This has seemingly culminated in the revelation, via a very specific statement and subsequent discussion participation, that some of these employees were responsible for intentionally mis-labeling steerhide jackets as horsehide in order to sell them to unknowing customers as such.

Aero indicates in the statement posted on this forum that any customers who feel they might have purchased such a jacket can contact them about having their jackets inspected and if appropriate the jacket will be replaced. It's an impressive gesture to reach out to members here on the forum. However, I can't understand why this statement hasn't been posted on the Aero website (I just checked and see no signs of it thus far) to reach a wider range of customers so that they might benefit from this information as well. Or to put it another way, why only extend this offer to Fedora Lounge members? Aero could post this news on their website and simply indicate that the problem has been recently discovered and that they want to make things right. There would be no need to go into all of the details of who misrepresented what. Only the details of how to go about having a jacket inspected would need to be covered.

My apologies if this post upsets anyone but if Aero's intention is truly to correct a wrong experienced by any customer along with always telling the truth, it would seem that they would start by doing so on their own website as opposed to this forum.

 

[Fanch]

I have, for the most part, kept up with what has been written on the Horween USA and Aero Leather Joint Statement thread. It is my strong impression that this whole subject matter has been beaten to death. There is no question in my mind that Ken, Holly, and the rest of the Aero staff are working as hard as humanly possible to restore the company and its image from the devastation left from a previous Managing Director and possibly others. This whole subject matter has been thoroughly discussed, and at this point in time, far be it from me to suggest how Aero should run their business, including what information they place on their website. None of us on FL are privy to all of the facts regarding everything that has transpired, and IMO only the Aero staff are capable of making decisions rather than those suggested by us Wise Men on the FL. Unless I am sitting in on a Board of Directors' meeting at Aero and armed with all of the facts, I will keep my counsel to myself. Ultimately the courts will, hopefully, provide resolution.

 

[caffeinated]

Christ knows I can't be bothered to trawl through all of that other thread but of the pages I did read the overriding impression I take away with me is that it's very very difficult to distinguish between the two hides and that both are very good quality leathers. So whilst I can see what the 'wrong doing' is here I think my point ultimately has to be, who gives a ***t?

I say embrace the mystery and just enjoy your aero jacket; steer or horse it's a goodun

Seriously? You may not care what your jacket is made from, but judging by the number of threads on this site alone regarding the differences between hides, most of the people buying these jackets care very deeply. Not to mention the simple idea that you've paid for a particular product and you expect to get that product, not some random substitute. Even if you are perfectly happy with your jacket, there is still the issue of paying for what you didn't get. At these prices especially, I expect your attitude is in the minority.

You wouldn't buy a used jacket off Ebay without knowing the hide, would you? Which actually leads me to wonder what all this does to the used Aero jacket market. But that's another thread, probably.

What this issue has taught me is that it's the tanning process more than the hide that I should be looking at. I will remember that the next jacket I buy.

 

[pauleway]

There are a lot of people on here giving it the 'bravo aero... what a wonderful company you truly are... such honesty is so refreshing... you've done the right thing.... we'll love you forever' spiel.

But have they really done the right thing in coming clean about this?

Specifically, if a guy is happy with his steerhide jacket why not just let him be. If he's not happy he is free to contact the factory of his own volition at any time at which point they would have the option of setting him straight (if applicable) on any mislabelling issues.

Christ knows I can't be bothered to trawl through all of that other thread but of the pages I did read the overriding impression I take away with me is that it's very very difficult to distinguish between the two hides and that both are very good quality leathers. So whilst I can see what the 'wrong doing' is here I think my point ultimately has to be, who gives a ***t?

I say embrace the mystery and just enjoy your aero jacket; steer or horse it's a goodun

There are people who complain about how straight the stitching is on their jacket, and their sleeves are 2/3" too short or long, so getting the correct type leather they ordered just might bother them a little bit!!!

 

[ForestForTheTrees]

I actually thought about writing Aero directly, but since Aero chose this public forum to make their statement this seemed appropriate. I doubt Aero would have chosen to post such information here in the fist place without expecting ample conversation and many questions to follow as a result.

Why would they want to post this all over again on their website? Well, namely to be fair to their customers. Why only inform a subset of the customers instead of trying to reach as many as you can? If the timing is inconvenient, why say anything at this point in time?

Regarding the statement that was posted on Aero's website: Do you think that if Aero had made that post here, rather than the actual one that was made, there would already be over 300 posts and nearly 30,000 views in such a short period of time? Those two messages are totally different.

This topic is being discussed here on this forum to the degree that it is because Aero chose to raise the issue here to begin with. I have no doubt that the folks remaining at Aero are working incredibly hard right now to keep up with the backlog of demand for their product. However, to me, this latest development would appear to be as much about exposing the wrongdoings of others with an audience who are familiar with those people, some of whom are set to become competitors, as it is about righting a wrong.

 

[Sillyrib]

I would like to see an independent lab or company do the testing. Maybe Horween? This should be for all hides. Many people specifically do not want horsehide due personal reasons but may in fact have gotten a whole or partial jacket made of HH. Any jacket that is tested against the labeling should have the option of being returned for a full refund. If not then a class action lawsuit is the usual next step in a case like this.
Aero and Horween are both brands. Any brand or company that could allow the Aero USA debacle and now this wholesale fraud of the main product line should not be trusted with the testing of said product. I do not understand the people on this forum who are saying to quiet this down. These are the same people who were defending Will and Amanda when Mike defrauded customers through the US Website. I think the opposite should be happening. You should be angry that the hundreds of dollars(thousands?) you spent on a jacket(s) may or may not be what you thought it was. I do not want that kind of confusion from a brand I thought I trusted. I also do not want to have to deal with returns sending pics, ect. I think this forum and others like it are a large reason aero has had success in the past. Ultimately, the main ownership of the company is responsible for all facets of the company. Being asleep at the wheel or semiretired is no excuse for bad management and illegal activities. They get both the profits and the liability. That said, I truly do wish that Aero can right the ship and fix the situation with its past and present customers.

 

[COLORADO]

You are right, the management or company's organisation are not customer's problem. What the customers want is to have really what they ordered. They do not have other questions to have. They trust, they order, they pay, they get.

I would like to see an independent lab or company do the testing. Maybe Horween? This should be for all hides. Many people specifically do not want horsehide due personal reasons but may in fact have gotten a whole or partial jacket made of HH. Any jacket that is tested against the labeling should have the option of being returned for a full refund. If not then a class action lawsuit is the usual next step in a case like this.
Aero and Horween are both brands. Any brand or company that could allow the Aero USA debacle and now this wholesale fraud of the main product line should not be trusted with the testing of said product. I do not understand the people on this forum who are saying to quiet this down. These are the same people who were defending Will and Amanda when Mike defrauded customers through the US Website. I think the opposite should be happening. You should be angry that the hundreds of dollars(thousands?) you spent on a jacket(s) may or may not be what you thought it was. I do not want that kind of confusion from a brand I thought I trusted. I also do not want to have to deal with returns sending pics, ect. I think this forum and others like it are a large reason aero has had success in the past. Ultimately, the main ownership of the company is responsible for all facets of the company. Being asleep at the wheel or semiretired is no excuse for bad management and illegal activities. They get both the profits and the liability. That said, I truly do wish that Aero can right the ship and fix the situation with its past and present customers.

 

[HorseHide]

I too have been watching this story unfold with a great deal of interest.

I'm not sure that anyone has been "damaged" and I certainly don't mean to suggest that I have a clue what a solution for this problem is but I repeat an earlier observation which I made about Aero - that this was the company that associated with Mark Moye, that this is the company that collects VAT from non-EU customers and now that this is the compnay that was involved in product misrepresentation.

I further don't know if these three events are bad coincidences, are part of serious gaps in judgment (although I believe that the VAT collection still continues) or suggest something more sinister. I do hope it isn't the last option.

Motivations for disclosure? Again, none of us know for sure and while I am hopeful that this information is being disclosed because it is the right thing to do, the fact that it is disclosed on this forum and not on the Aero website is "curious" to say the least.

Early on in my leather jacket journey I made reference on this forum to my bad experience with Mark Moye and people were quick to jump all over me. We all know that the MM story didn't turn out well. Now, we are observing another set of events which will present another challenge to Aero. Along with many (all?) of the forum members, I hope that Ken and his team are honest, reputable people with the fortitude (and capital) to work through this mess. On the other hand, can it be said that it is inconceivable to imagine a scenario somewhere down the road where Aero isn't around, where people are left trying to recover deposits, or returned jackets, or both? And then will we look back and say "It was so obvious"?

Stop writing about this? I don't think that's the right answer...

 

[hpalapdog]

I think this forum and others like it are a large reason aero has had success in the past.

I doubt it. When I was in Japan there were lots of stores with large numbers of Aero jackets on the rack. It's their biggest market. Probably a more profitable one too, no fussing around with custom sizing and countless emails with customers.

I would imagine Mark Moye's Ebay listing drummed up interest, perhaps more than Aero realized. He linked to a page with hundreds of detailed photos which were far better than anything Aero themselves have ever managed !

 

[wdw]

Aero are basically a small family firm who make great leather jackets for a worldwide clientele. Their pricing strategy is pretty rudimentary and seems to be based on keeping headline prices low whilst meeting their required minimum (and probably relatively modest) return on investment, hence the one-size-fits-all approach with the accompanying VAT concerns recently raised.

This problem would go away if Aero raised base prices by a possibly nominal amount to allow for a VAT deduction (whilst maintaining the required return). This would satisfy a number of people here, but would surely be accompanied by a charge for most if not all modifications from the standard design. They would almost certainly then state that returns of modified jackets would not be permitted, as is the norm elsewhere.

My own view is that's what they should do, as to me their pricing strategy seems more in favour of the consumer than the shareholders. That would then satisfy the people who want VAT deductions and would also drastically reduce the number of mods, thereby increasing production, reducing waiting lists and satisfying more people.

Try telling Belstaff you want extra length on their £1,200 Panther, a different lining or extra pockets, although they might give you £240 VAT back.

 

[HorseHide]

This isn't a debate about the relative merits of Belstaff versus Aero products. And this isn't a debate about the value of Aero jackets, with or without a VAT. This is about honesty.