Why & when do we love the A-2 & other leather jackets?

[aswatland]

If an A-2 is either patched and/or painted with nose art, does that make it more recognizable as a yank's flight jacket ?

It might do, but if it is a CBI jacket with an American flag on the back everyone will know the country of origin.

 

[Smithy]

If an A-2 is either patched and/or painted with nose art, does that make it more recognizable as a yank's flight jacket ?

Probably not really to any great extent. The vast majority of people wouldn't know absolutely anything about American squadron/group/etc patches. Nose art would probably be seen by the layman as some sort of "promotional" garment. Remember there's no history of military wear of A-2s in the UK or the Commonwealth, if your relative was aircrew in WWII (especially Bomber Command) he had an Irvin. Also because that's part of our history we grow up and have more access to the stories of men such as Johnnie Johnson, Guy Gibson, Cobber Kain, Douglas Bader and subsequently the imagery that went with them and that includes what they wore. Irvins then are engrained in people's minds as the image of the WWII flying jacket. It's not really surprising that in the UK and CW, virtually without fail an Irvin will be recognised then as a WWII pilot's jacket but an A-2 for most would appear to be just a regular leather jacket.

 

[442RCT]

Your observations are also true in USA, the Irvin, B-3 or for that matter any shearling jacket is branded as a 'bomber jacket', and A-2s for the post baby boomer generation is just a jacket as well. The ironic thing is the country whose kids know more about A-2s is probably Japan... [huh] lol

 

[Smithy]

Your observations are also true in USA, the Irvin, B-3 or for that matter any shearling jacket is branded as a 'bomber jacket', and A-2s for the post baby boomer generation is just a jacket as well.

That's exactly the thing, it's relative to a country's history and culture.

The ironic thing is the country whose kids know more about A-2s is probably Japan... [huh] lol

Bizarrely amusing isn't it!

 

[Silver Dollar]

Maybe in America.

Very good point, Edward. You're definitely right, especially if you're talking about an unmarked A2. If the jacket has painting on the back (the subject of the artwork and its complexity is significant here) it has a higher chance of being recognized as the USAAF WWII icon. If there's a USAAF aircraft on it or a specific type of pin up or a flag, the origin should be pretty clear. I still conceded that outside of the US, you are right.

 

[Edward]

If an A-2 is either patched and/or painted with nose art, does that make it more recognizable as a yank's flight jacket ?

The most likely response to that would be "oh, a Top Gun jacket!"

 

[Seb Lucas]

I like leather jackets, but I think the A2 is pretty awful. It may be a design classic, but so is the Volkswagen, and I wouldn't want to drive one of those. The A2 is a great leather jacket until you see those silly knits. What were they thinking? Let's make a great leather jacket and then use some woolen fluffery to finish it off... Yuk. It's like they ran out of money.

Having said that, I love a good half-belt. A nice all-leather goatskin jacket is a lovely item to behold, especially after it ages.

 

[Edward]

Some folks love the A2 for its association with the WW2 era USAAF. Some just appreciate it as a garment design. The knits do often seem to be the sticking point for those who don't care for the look. Regarding it as a looks-based design rather misses the point, however: IMO, like much military gear, the A2 was designed first and foremost as a utilitarian piece of kit: the knits (at least until they stretch and wear) keep draughts out. Simples. That the jacket has since become a look for many of us, a "design classic", is coincidental to its design purpose. The USAAF chiefs I doubt gave much thought to whether they looked 'cool' when designing the jacket. Hap Arnold certainly didn't seem bothered by the 'cool factor' of leather when he authorised the switch to cloth from 43.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Some folks love the A2 for its association with the WW2 era USAAF. Some just appreciate it as a garment design. The knits do often seem to be the sticking point for those who don't care for the look. Regarding it as a looks-based design rather misses the point, however: IMO, like much military gear, the A2 was designed first and foremost as a utilitarian piece of kit: the knits (at least until they stretch and wear) keep draughts out. Simples. That the jacket has since become a look for many of us, a "design classic", is coincidental to its design purpose. The USAAF chiefs I doubt gave much thought to whether they looked 'cool' when designing the jacket. Hap Arnold certainly didn't seem bothered by the 'cool factor' of leather when he authorised the switch to cloth from 43.

Yeah, I already got all that Edward. But thanks for putting it so well.

 

[Phantomfixer]

I like leather jackets, but I think the A2 is pretty awful. It may b

Yeah the A-2 is such a horrible design. It was designed back in 1931. Who would ever want to wear one. Let alone find a manufacturer willing to try to duplicate such a nasty looking jacket. Bloody horrible thing. and those cuffs why would anyone want to try and stop the wind not to mention bees from blowing up their armpits. Very poor design I couldn't sell 10 of them if they were made out of horsehide or even goatskin. But that is just my opinion[huh]

 

[aswatland]

I like leather jackets, but I think the A2 is pretty awful. It may be a design classic, but so is the Volkswagen, and I wouldn't want to drive one of those. The A2 is a great leather jacket until you see those silly knits. What were they thinking? Let's make a great leather jacket and then use some woolen fluffery to finish it off... Yuk. It's like they ran out of money.

Did you write this after a few drinks or do you really believe this? If you really believe it, fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even though in this case I guess most people who post here would disagree with you. Perhaps you should try telling some of the surviving vets who wore the A2 in the War that their flight jackets were pretty awful.

 

[442RCT]

A-2 Brute'

If the A-2 had nothing to do with WW2 combat aviators and had been nothing more than a leather jacket designed to be marketed to civilians. Would you still be wearing one ? Would it still be as popular as it is today ? I can honestly say, without it's association with WW2 military aviators, I would still be wearing my blanket lined Levi denim jacket. To me, before I bought my first A-2, which spawned my military flight jacket buying frenzy, a leather jacket was nothing more than a jacket. The only leather jacket I owned prior to my first A-2 was a Navy G-1, it was utilitarian with this handy side pocket for carrying useful equipment. I never bothered to look up the history of the G-1, it was just a jacket. After I bought my first A-2 'style' repro, I was brainwashed by books about the A-2 and G-1, "Cowboys of the Sky" and "Hell Bent For Leather", and the Cockpit/Avirex catalogs, where writers waxed-poetic about the iconic stature of these garments. It was great salesmanship...and even knowing this, I still am hooked on flight jackets.

These are about a third of my flight jacket collection. [huh]

 

[Phantomfixer]

A-2 Brute'

Very nice collection of jackets 442, great mix. I see where you are going with your question but it is kinda like saying "if WWII never happened would I still be interested in it?". Or if strawberries never grew would I still like them? Point is The A-2 was the jacket of the USAAF, it was produced and duplicated in numbers too high to count. What did Elvis say?, 50,000 fans can't be wrong? This thread was not meant to be an A-2 only thing but more how and when did we get hooked on our leather jackets? I was curious to see who had lifelong obsessions and who caught the bug later in life.[huh]

 

[Smithy]

Did you write this after a few drinks or do you really believe this? If you really believe it, fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even though in this case I guess most people who post here would disagree with you. Perhaps you should try telling some of the surviving vets who wore the A2 in the War that their flight jackets were pretty awful.

Andrew, I think Seb was just airing his opinion which I personally think is fine.

This is a thread about why we love the A-2 and other leather jackets and I think there is a place for those whose views are contrary to state them. As well as the positive opinions I think it's fine to hear the negative ones as well and they add to the thread. We are all adults and we should be confident enough of our opinions to let other have and say theirs. Plus it gets bloody boring if everyone is fawning and applauding all the time!

I personally like A-2s but as I have stated before I think they look less than flattering on those with a spare tyre (but I think that goes for most jackets that end at the waist - it will accentuate girth and is not fetching) but that's my own opinion.

My interest in A-2s grew out of my interest in 331 and 332 Sqns (Norwegian squadrons in the RAF) who wore them and as such are the only examples of wearing of A-2s in the RAF at a unit level.

However I've been interested in flying jackets and especially the Irvin for longer. I have been fascinated by the Battle of Britain since being a young lad and my interest can be traced back to that. And also, a chap who lived nearby when I was a nipper who drove an MG and wore an Irvin. He was a dashing bugger in a "Lord Flasheart" type of way and was always roaring around in his MG with his Irvin and setting girls' hearts aflutter. I think that probably cemented in my head of how dashing and great a flying jacket can look.

 

[Yeps]

It may be a design classic, but so is the Volkswagen, and I wouldn't want to drive one of those.

If I got a chance to get an old VW Bug, I would leap at it, especially the convertible.

 

[Fletch]

No accounting for taste, eh?

The A2 is a great leather jacket until you see those silly knits. What were they thinking? Let's make a great leather jacket and then use some woolen fluffery to finish it off... Yuk. It's like they ran out of money.

That wasn't an A-2 innovation, that went back to 1927 and the A-1. The idea was to make a garment that was at least semi-windproof.

(Why does the A-1 button up, then? Because zippers were neither cost-effective nor all that reliable in 1927. They did what they could at the time.)

 

[Stearmen]

Bug Lover

Some folks love the A2 for its association with the WW2 era USAAF. Some just appreciate it as a garment design. The knits do often seem to be the sticking point for those who don't care for the look. Regarding it as a looks-based design rather misses the point, however: IMO, like much military gear, the A2 was designed first and foremost as a utilitarian piece of kit: the knits (at least until they stretch and wear) keep draughts out. Simples. That the jacket has since become a look for many of us, a "design classic", is coincidental to its design purpose. The USAAF chiefs I doubt gave much thought to whether they looked 'cool' when designing the jacket. Hap Arnold certainly didn't seem bothered by the 'cool factor' of leather when he authorised the switch to cloth from 43.

The Bug is one of the greatest cars ever made! You can make it into any thing you like, Baja, Ferrari, how about a Stretch Limo, it is one of the all time do any thing cars! Same with the A2, Frank Sinatra no problem, steve McQueen King Of Cool, and take the epaulets off, Fonzie Haaaa! I have owned a bunch of A2s and a 71 Super Beetle, all great! Having said that, I like my Navy G1 better! Usable pockets, and a collar that doesn't chafe when you wear a tshirt or sweat shirt, so I do understand your point of view Edward. Just lay off the Bug!

 

[aswatland]

Andrew, I think Seb was just airing his opinion which I personally think is fine.

Initially I thought he was winding us up. Of course he is free to state his opinion, however misguided it is!

 

[Edward]

The Bug is one of the greatest cars ever made! You can make it into any thing you like, Baja, Ferrari, how about a Stretch Limo, it is one of the all time do any thing cars! Same with the A2, Frank Sinatra no problem, steve McQueen King Of Cool, and take the epaulets off, Fonzie Haaaa! I have owned a bunch of A2s and a 71 Super Beetle, all great! Having said that, I like my Navy G1 better! Usable pockets, and a collar that doesn't chafe when you wear a tshirt or sweat shirt, so I do understand your point of view Edward. Just lay off the Bug!

Uhm.... I think you might be confusing me with Seb, whose post I quoted? I didn't mention the People's Car at all..... (for the record, I'm a fan of those, right up until the seventies models that brought in the Elephant Feet and the plastic dashboards..... my favourites are the early models with the split oval rear screens. As for that modern abomination that they claim to be a Beetle, well.... VW can say what they like, it's their TM, but that will never be anything more than a Golf in a jelly mould... ).

 

[Stearmen]

Uggly Bugs

Uhm.... I think you might be confusing me with Seb, whose post I quoted? I didn't mention the People's Car at all..... (for the record, I'm a fan of those, right up until the seventies models that brought in the Elephant Feet and the plastic dashboards..... my favourites are the early models with the split oval rear screens. As for that modern abomination that they claim to be a Beetle, well.... VW can say what they like, it's their TM, but that will never be anything more than a Golf in a jelly mould... ).

Sorry about that! For the record, I agree 100% with you on the new Bugs!