Why only Japan makes high-quality jackets?

[Mich486]

The repro inspired clothing industry in Japan is much bigger than anywhere else in the world. Not just leather jackets of course. There are a lot of good Japanese brands. Some items (e.g. vintage inspired engineer boots) are almost exclusively made in Japan. They got a thing for vintage americana!

 

[Jamesonisliar]

Japanese make everything perfect? Well, except of course nuclear power plants.
And my wool RMC crosszip felt worse than the cheapest thing at Zara. As is often the case, people associate a price tag with quality. It’s a novel self delusion. Having run the gambit on low and high priced leather jackets, I don’t find one necessarily equates to the other.

While I do think that Japanese makers are putting out some very nice stuff, in my experience it’s not any better than anything else. It’s marketed to be and it may well posses qualities that people consider to be higher quality, but to say they are the only makers of anything quality in leather is absolutely absurd, laughable and quite novice.

Thanks for the answer!

Nuclear power plant .. It was caused by an unexpected big earthquake.
I think it was not a lack of any technology. This is my opinion only

And I got to know many European and American leather jacket makers here. I found a lot of cool brands outside Japan.

They're a culture of detail. I'm sure you know this, as being South Korean? Ever watched a Japanese person sharpen a knife, or how they get their sharpening stones? Or create ink from a rock for their pens? Or even baseball gloves. I don't think you're going to find this philosophy and dedication concentrated anywhere else on earth. Maybe a person here or there, or a group here or there, but not like this. A culture that embraces and, continues to, reward master craftsmanship. Art.

It is a nice culture. The business must be efficient, so can't apply it in every way.

But it is important to know and respect the value of craftsmanship!!

In my country, clothing is just product. So There is almost no vintage or reproduction. most people don't know the value of vintage yet.

But some people want to develop it. I too ...

 

[Edward]

The simple truth is that no country on earth has a monopoly on the best of any form of manufactured good by any objective standard. The USA no more has magic trees and mystical pixies who can make better guitars than anywhere else on earth, nor does Japan have a monopoly on high end leather garments. Even if we can get past the huge subjectivity of 'best' involved (often impossible), the reality is that any company anywhere will produce only what they can sell. High cost is often more likely to indicate a high quality, however it is certainly no guarantee. Many people are simply prepared to pay more for a particular product, and other intangibles such as wishing to support a particular economy, or "heritage", brand, fashionability (even, especially in niches like our own). Japanese companies are riding high on a reputation for Japanese quality, but I've owned items made in China every bit as good as Japanese equivalents that cost far more. As ever, so much depends on what the market will buy. Back in the fifties, 'Made in Japan' was seen as a badge of low quality, and there was no real market for high quality items made there. Japan has successfully beaten that. Now China is working hard to dispell its international image as a sweatshop for producing the low end, low price units that the Western market demands. It will be interesting to see if they get there soon.

 

[zebedee]

My first decent leather jackets were Korean-made and lasted me at least 10 years.

 

[JMax]

My first decent leather jackets were Korean-made and lasted me at least 10 years.

Pegasus jackets are built in Korea. Extremely well made jackets.

 

[LuvMyMan]

The simple truth is that no country on earth has a monopoly on the best of any form of manufactured good by any objective standard. The USA no more has magic trees and mystical pixies who can make better guitars than anywhere else on earth, nor does Japan have a monopoly on high end leather garments. Even if we can get past the huge subjectivity of 'best' involved (often impossible), the reality is that any company anywhere will produce only what they can sell. High cost is often more likely to indicate a high quality, however it is certainly no guarantee. Many people are simply prepared to pay more for a particular product, and other intangibles such as wishing to support a particular economy, or "heritage", brand, fashionability (even, especially in niches like our own). Japanese companies are riding high on a reputation for Japanese quality, but I've owned items made in China every bit as good as Japanese equivalents that cost far more. As ever, so much depends on what the market will buy. Back in the fifties, 'Made in Japan' was seen as a badge of low quality, and there was no real market for high quality items made there. Japan has successfully beaten that. Now China is working hard to dispell its international image as a sweatshop for producing the low end, low price units that the Western market demands. It will be interesting to see if they get there soon.

So true...in fact even though some Leather Jackets are well made no matter where from, some of the price is name tag oriented as much as where they are made at, not withstanding that the quality is not always the bottom line to price....take a peek at some leathers from Brioni....price tag is big enough to make a mule pass out,..and yeah made in Italy..but again where it is made means not so much in todays world.

 

[Seb Lucas]

But I wonder Why is high quality A-2 only made by Japan? Are there any high quality A-2 Brands I've never experienced?

Welcome. That's a funny comment. Clearly - as this whole site demonstrates again and again - the answer is Japanese A2's are not the only high quality A2's around. Not by a long shot.

But another question to ask is what does high quality actually mean? The original A2's from WW2 were often hastily put together and indifferently manufactured. There is a lot more to a leather jacket than simple notions of quality. My favorite jackets (not A2's) are not particularly well made but they have awesome character and authenticity which matters more to me than stitching or leather choices. I admit this is not always a popular view but I would feel bad not to raise it here.

 

[dannyk]

I think we need to be cognizant that the poster said he was told this, not that he believed it. Out of the examples he had access to he said the Japanese one seemed to be best. But when talking to the guy at the shop it was the shop guy who told him the best come from Japan. So he came here to see if that were true and expand his knowledge. Which it sounds like he’s learning a ton and well on his way to discovering some European and North American makers. Also English isn’t his first language and often times intent, sarcasm, or word choices may come off as odd to us.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I think we need to be cognizant that the poster said he was told this, not that he believed it. Out of the examples he had access to he said the Japanese one seemed to be best. But when talking to the guy at the shop it was the shop guy who told him the best come from Japan. So he came here to see if that were true and expand his knowledge. Which it sounds like he’s learning a ton and well on his way to discovering some European and North American makers. Also English isn’t his first language and often times intent, sarcasm, or word choices may come off as odd to us.

I think that's a given, danny. But anyone who comes on here will hear things that do or don't resonate for whatever reason.

 

[dannyk]

I think that's a given, danny. But anyone who comes on here will hear things that do or don't resonate for whatever reason.

True. Didn’t mean to sound defensive.

 

[navetsea]

I know nothing of these brands, but probably all those japanese brand are of the rack ready to wear, while the western options are made to order? So probably the better title would be why japan is the best rtw niche clothes maker something like that maybe.

Apart from their apparent quality, probably japan is very talented to write up a good story about almost anything, including marketing, so an already good quality, imbued with almost magical story, and priced accordingly to smite hobbiist (as high and exclusive as humanly possible without being labelled absurd, visvim excluded).

 

[dannyk]

I know nothing of these brands, but probably all those japanese brand are of the rack ready to wear, while the western options are made to order? So probably the better title would be why japan is the best rtw niche clothes maker something like that maybe.

The argument for best aside. This is interesting and something I’ve never thought about. I’ve never owned a Japanese brand jacket and haven’t explored that market much myself. But now that you say that any Japanese brands I’ve seen for sale or around we’re all off the rack. While like you said most high end western makers are more well known for their made to order options. I never considered that large difference. Interesting to think about.

 

[KissMyMuscle]

quality management and attitude.

I have went to a RM store, the quality seems all right.

 

[LaymanX]

It's the concept of Kaizen, continuous self-improvement. They're not one to rest on their laurels

 

[Seb Lucas]

It's the concept of Kaizen, continuous self-improvement. They're not one to rest on their laurels

Which was originally an American idea from William Deming, the mid century business genius the Japanese idolized.

 

[jonesy86]

Which was originally an American idea from William Deming, the mid century business genius the Japanese idolized.

TQM

 

[red devil]

Which was originally an American idea from William Deming, the mid century business genius the Japanese idolized.

I noticed that they seem to choose the good ideas and push them even further, they indeed have the Deming Prize.

Regarding otr vs made to order, quite a few made to order makers are available in Japan as well, just not as well known or discussed here.

 

[Edward]

The argument for best aside. This is interesting and something I’ve never thought about. I’ve never owned a Japanese brand jacket and haven’t explored that market much myself. But now that you say that any Japanese brands I’ve seen for sale or around we’re all off the rack. While like you said most high end western makers are more well known for their made to order options. I never considered that large difference. Interesting to think about.

It is a different model. RTW; then there's made to measure - using pre-set patterns but cut to your individual measurements, and then true bespoke, which is where an original pattern is made from scratch purely for the specific individual and cut to flatter them. Sadly "bespoke" has been a much denigrated term since so many made to measure online suit retailers started claiming to be 'bespoke'.

 

[Brettafett]

I have owned A-2s from everyone (well almost), including owning one original WW2 A-2. And those I have not owned, I have at least tried on and inspected...

Further to the above...
RM make the best A-2s? No.
Are their jackets well made, with the best materials and components? To a degree, yes and no.
In terms of side-by-side comparison to original A-2s (of which the Japanese makers have many to reference as they are passionate collectors)... They are not the most authentic.
If you want a really good A-2, that is well made, robust and will last multiple life times, and you have cash to throw into the wind... You could get a RM.

But I'd say there are better, in terms of WW2 authenticity, and equally as well-made and detail specific A-2s out there for a lot less money.

As nice as they are... I find RMJ A-2s over-engineered. The leather is generally thicker than WW2 jacket and many other top tier repros, and also has less character... Some hues are also over-the-top. Generally more fashion-conscious than WW2 accurate. Often the russet shades tend to be overly red or too orange. Patterns and hardware are tops.

But so are the other high-end makers', or at least as close as....

I would say, humbly, that there are a few modern makers of these jackets who all sit side-by-side on the top 'rung' of the high-end ladder.

Goodwear, Bill Kelso, Eastman and Platon's JaDubowmfg... Of these I would not say any are better or worse than the others, but that they all have their own particular 'take' on reproducing an authentic-as-possible WW2 A-2.
1940's in a box so-to-speak.
RMJ would be on that 'rung' maybe, but off to the sides... possibly BR also, but to a lesser degree.
RMNZ would certainly have been, they were fantastic jackets. I was there, in the factory a few years back just before they sold on, and was in Heaven.

None will ever be the perfect WW2 A-2, simply because we are no longer in the 1940s, with its processes, incl. the way leather was chrome tanned back then etc...

Even in the high-end realm... to the pedantic, every maker has its pros and cons, and these may be subjective at times.

If I was going to buy another A-2...?

Platon's Dubow - If the Dubow pattern works for you and the standard sizes fit, is THE best original-maker A-2 repro for the money on the planet today. I have one, and the leather itself is almost identical to the WW2 A-2 I owned in colour, weight and drape. Its wearing in beautifully.
Only seal & russet horsehide, no options, no long sizes, no returns and I found the waist knit a little bit looser than other makers, not a biggie (this can be a requested detail at order)...
If you want options and more options...
Bill Kelso Mfg. The Liberty horsehide is fantastic. The Seal liberty is so much like many original jackets I have seen. Lots of grain and character... Choices of leather. BK has a number of contracts available, all original-maker authentic, various knit, thread and lining options. They will also add or subtract length if need be... Quality and workmanship are top notch! I have three, a RW23380 and 2 Dubows (selling one). Best high-end original-maker A-2 (with options) for the money imo.
Eastman - I have owned too many ELCs Great jackets also, ELC have come along way since my first RW27752 in 2002. Warhorse is great, patterns and detailing is great. Top workmanship... Guys at ELC are fantastic, as is customer service!
However ELC's knit is not great. Its stretches out rather quickly and loses shape. There are some other pattern details which could arguably get tweaked... Prices are becoming crazy. (btw I also have an ELC B-10 since 2005 - love it)
Gary has a couple of fantastic books on the subject! Well worth a read if you are interested in the subject.
Goodwear - John makes some of the very best repro flight jackets, its true... he is incredibly knowledgeable and a great guy. Very detailed, as authentic as you can get, components and hardware tops etc... Some guys get lucky and receive perfect fitting, great looking jackets, but others not so much. I have owned three. Let all three go... 2 due to fit, 1 to appearance, horrible Shinki leather, which looked way too orangey and unlike any A-2 I've ever seen anywhere.
Worth the high price tag and 2+ year wait?
Make that call yourself, but your jacket will not be better than a BK (or Platon's Dubow) for example, unless it has a NOS zipper or original label stitched on or something...

In any case, I'd have any of the above before a RMJ or BR. Each to their own I guess, some fellas recon the more money you pay for something, or the longer the wait to get it, the better it is. Not true.
I had a guy in a Real McCoys store waxing lyrical about how detailed, accurate their A-2s were, with the very best leather in the world... and they were not. Sorry. Yes, the stitching was perfect and the hardware was top-notch, patterns appear to be pretty good.... but they were stiff and lifeless. Leather a bit thick. Uncomfortable. More of a fashion version, than a WW2 clone.
I wanted to bring in one of my other high end A-2 jackets and show him the difference...

Btw, these jackets are meant to age and wear-in. They are meant to scuff, receive scratches and creases and develop character. They are meant o mould to the wearer. They were meant to be worn in cockpits and into dogfights and bomb-runs... There was a war on and were made quickly. Originals are far from perfect and often have many irregularities and anomalies, even deformities... often within the same batch...

I took the time to write this, because I went through many jackets and makers to find what I want. I've wasted lots of money on my interest in this subject, but its been very rewarding.
Ultimately, I now have a number of jackets, which are keepers! Anything future purchases, will be purely out of curiosity...

Thanks for reading.

 

[dannyk]

It is a different model. RTW; then there's made to measure - using pre-set patterns but cut to your individual measurements, and then true bespoke, which is where an original pattern is made from scratch purely for the specific individual and cut to flatter them. Sadly "bespoke" has been a much denigrated term since so many made to measure online suit retailers started claiming to be 'bespoke'.

Very true. I was reading something on this forum the other day with people debating made to measure vs. bespoke. And while traditionally theres a difference, I think its one of those things that enough people start using a word a specific way for long enough the definition changes. I think thats where bespoke probably is these days. Enough people have used it a certain way that now it means the new thing.