Why is the ribbon on the left?

[jamespowers]

Ok, now that I have been doing a little research I thought we might want to go in a different direction. Lets test our hat knowledge out there. Why is the grosgrain ribbon bow (or any bow) on our hats always on the left side of the hat? No hints, no clues because the crowd here is too smart for that.
The first person to get it obtains my admiration---for whatever that is worth. LOL

Regards to all,

J

 

[fedoralover]

A hold over from when men's hat's had huge feathered plumes. Since most people are right handed it kept the plumage from interferring with their sword movements with their right hand.

fedoralover

 

[jamespowers]

Originally posted by fedoralover
A hold over from when men's hat's had huge feathered plumes. Since most people are right handed it kept the plumage from interferring with their sword movements with their right hand.

fedoralover

That is the answer I was looking for. You have my admiration. Now for bonus points, how is a Cavanagh edge created (you might also want to explain what a Cavanagh edge is)?

Regards to all,

J

 

[Brad Bowers]

So, as a lefty, I should move my ribbon to the right side....? Or is that the more feminine side?

Seriously, though, I would like to know how a Cavanagh edge is made, and why no one makes them that way today.

Brad Bowers

 

[fedoralover]

If I remember correctly the cavanaugh edge was patented in 1931, then licensed to other hat manufacturers and sometimes referred to as a guilded edge. It has to be done in the felting process with specialized equipment making it a more expensive product. Most people today would balk at having to pay the extra price for it. Many already choke when they hear of a $200 to $400.00 hat which is pretty standard price range for a custom fedora.

fedoralover

 

[jamespowers]

Originally posted by Brad Bowers
So, as a lefty, I should move my ribbon to the right side....? Or is that the more feminine side?

Brad Bowers

Actually, in the days of the Three Musketeers young children were forced to be right handed. Some even thought the left handed were evil devil's spawn. Phrases such as "left-handed compliment" came from this era. Isn't it much better to live in modern times? We would all be right handed if we were still around in the years of yore.

Regards to all,

J

 

[jamespowers]

Originally posted by fedoralover
If I remember correctly the cavanaugh edge was patented in 1931, then licensed to other hat manufacturers and sometimes referred to as a guilded edge. It has to be done in the felting process with specialized equipment making it a more expensive product. Most people today would balk at having to pay the extra price for it. Many already choke when they hear of a $200 to $400.00 hat which is pretty standard price range for a custom fedora.



fedoralover

Again, you are correct--an A student.
I can only add a bit. The Cavanaugh edge was named after its developer John J. Cavanaugh. Cavanaugh was foreman for Crofut and Knapp. He then became general manager and then president.
In 1928 he joined Dobbs thus creating Cavanaugh-Dobbs. His company Cavanaugh, Ltd. was kept as a subsidiary. Later in 1932 Hat Corporation of America bought out Cavanaugh-Dobbs and made John Cavanaugh president.
I am not quite sure exactly when the cavanaugh edge was developed but it was most likely in the late twenties to early thirties (probably 1932).
Now that I am done boring you to death, the cavanaugh edge is indeed the most expensive brim edge and would likely add at least two hundred dollars to the price of a modern hat.
The reason for this is as fedoralover said. The edge is turned over and sewed with a chain stitch as the body is starting to felt. The stitch is left on through all the felting and then removed---leaving cleanly folded over Cavanaugh edge. The expense is in keeping the hat correctly sized so the edge remains the same dimension from the center of the crown to the edge of the brim. One screw up and the body is worthless and all that work is thrown away. Imagine how many hat bodies you could screw up until you got the dimensions right even with our current level of mechanization! Too costly for today's production. It would have to be hand done for a good part of the operation as well. What a shame to lose such a nice finish to a brim but we have to agree that the cost is prohibitive---unless we can get someone to produce them reasonably. Not likely. LOL LOL
A "gild edge" is likely to be found in Dobbs hats as my wife rightly reminds me. Her hat (brown fedora Dobbs twenty) has it noted on the hat band. Makes sense because they were one company for a while there and beyond that in HCA. Only Dobbs remains today as part of the Hat Brands conglomerate. Anyone know what the quality of their hats is like today?
By the way, I am sitting here typing wearing a Borsalino with a Cavanaugh edge. I wonder how much Borsalino had to pay in order to use that wisely patented process.


Regards to all,

J

 

[Paladin]

Very interesting story. I wonder if you could find a photo to post of a Cavanaugh edge? How common would one be on Borsalino?

Here's a little history story--not about hats, but about wigs:

As incredible as it sounds, men and women took baths only twice a year! (May and October) Women kept their hair covered, while men shaved their heads (because of lice and bugs) and wore wigs. Wealthy men could afford good wigs made from wool. The wigs couldn't be washed, so to clean them they could carve out a loaf of bread, put the wig in the shell, and bake it for 30 minutes. The heat would make the wig big and fluffy, hence the term "big wig." Today we often use the term "here comes the Big Wig" because someone appears to be or is powerful and wealthy.

Or someone with a Cavanaugh Edge....

 

[gcollins]

check out Havershaw's "another Bev of Beauties"--where you can see (as he rightly pointed out to me) the Cavanaugh edge on the first two hats. Today, the underwelt perhaps is used to mimic this, and the thicker end of the brim keeps the brim in shape. that's what I've been learning recently and it makes sense.

 

[havershaw]

My Borsalino with a Cavanagh edge:

and an actual Cavanagh:

a closeup of the Cavanagh edge on my Disney Twenty-Five:

 

[jamespowers]

Very nice Havershaw. Thanks for the pictures. Your Borsalino looks a lot like mine. I think mine is a bit darker than yours and it does not taper much at all. I doubt I will ever be able to find a Disney or Cavanaugh in my size but I can dream. LOL
All of these hats are a part of history. Their style and craftsmanship remain monuments to their creators and their eras. That does not mean that we do not have capable hatters now. It just means that times have changed and the same materials that were once plentiful are now much more scarce. Even adjusted for inflation, a $25 hat in 1948 would only be about $190 today. This just shows us that inflation is not the only factor involved. Have you ever tried to bag a beaver lately?
A Cavanaugh edge can be imitated by an underwelted edge but as soon as you look closely the difference will be obvious. I would think that the thicker edge might be an impediment to keeping the brim in shape. When I snap the brim down at the front, as many of us do, the underwelted edge does not leave the sides of the brim as even as a brim with a Cavanaugh edge---at least this has been my experience. A bound edge does about as good as a Cavanaugh edge for this though. Perhaps I am dreaming.
What are the experiences of others? I always learn better when someone else tells me I am right, wrong or somewhere in between. LOL LOL

Regards to all,

J

P.S. I just remembered that someone mentioned a way that we could look up the year our Borsalinos were made by the numbers in the hat. Could someone point me to this source?