Why is the Bum Look Popular? (formally the unemployed look)

[Martinis at 8]

...Five year old boys...love to roll around in the dirt...

No they don't. They like to stay indoors eat Chee-tos and play computer games. They don't even learn how to fix their bicycles anymore. The Wright Brothers will never fly again

 

[TessTrueheart]

I thought clothes makes the man?
Perhaps Will Shakespeare had it wrong.

It was Mark Twain who said "Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society."

Please keep in mind that not all people are interested in clothes and style and a lot of people are just not very good at putting outfits together. I've worked in retail (fashion) for ten years and keep meeting people who ask for help because they "hate shopping", are "not interested in clothes", "don't know what to wear" for certain occasions (job interviews, new career, weddings, baptisms, parties etc), they are uncomfortable with how they and their bodies look, and I've met hundreds of people who are colour blind. I've learned a lot about clothing by assisting customers, but I' still not a very stylish dresser. My sister is though, she can put together a smashing outfit for anybody. To me, dressing well is something of a talent. And all of us aren't talented.

(And Mr Twain also said: "Be careless in your dress if you must, but keep a tidy soul".)

 

[TessTrueheart]

Sorry for double posting!

 

[i_am_the_scruff]

I just shake my head when a successful entrepreneur complains that people think he's the gardener because of the clothes he wears. Or guys who say "I look like a biker but I'm really a nice guy."

Yeah because someone who rides a motorbike just couldn't be a nice guy could they?

In an ideal world, we could all get to know one another to see what we're really like on the inside. This being the real world, we make trade-offs. A restaurant manager who works 60 hours a week can spend an hour per interview, check references, do a personality test, etc. to see if an angsty looking emo-style person is going to provide fast, pleasant service. Or he can just hire someone who presents himself as pleasant and efficient. In our friendships, we can seek out people who look like us or people who don't. The former won't give us as many broadening life experiences, but will yield more friends we can relax and be ourselves with.

What if the person who presents themselves as efficient is only doing that - presenting it. What if they only thing they care about is their appearence and they're lazy in every other way. But that's fine because they LOOK good.
It's about DOING and not looking.

When I'm hiring someone to work at the theatre, I specifically do *not* hire people who present themselves as edgy rebels. That's not the image we want to present to our patrons, and that's not the attitude I want around the place. I hire people who look clean-cut and upbeat because that's the kind of kid I want around the place. I don't have the time or the patience to indulge edgy rebels whose attitude will likely tick off the people who pay my own wages.

This is a complete joke.
Two people whose pictures were posted in this thread are amazingly creative in acting and would be a gem in any theatre! But because they don't look how you want them to look they're not welcome to be employed by you?
I suppose we see why they're the rich successfull people then eh..

And why exactly would they have a bad attitude beause they dress slightly "edgy"? I think you are the one with the bad attitude for saying that. Someone of you age should know better.
If two people came for a job interview, one had no experience and was clearly not up for the job but looked smart and clean cut, and the other had the "edgy" look you're talking about but was lovely and polite and had all the qualifications and experience needed to do a great job. Who would you choose?

You know, when I started getting interested in the whole vintage thing I thought i'd find some really nice people who accept people's different looks because their look is different and they have to put up with comments. When in actual fact alot of the people here are the most judgemental snobbish people I have come across. And alot of the people's whose posts I enjoyed reading no longer post here. Not because they've been told to leave (like I know a few people have done in the recent past - but I enjoyed some of their posts too) but because they don't like how it is. There are so many nice people here but the others just ruin it.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

LizzeMaine works at a MOVIE theater- she hires concessions & other help around the place. She doesn't hire drama queens and kings, ideally. The comment about someone of her age should know better is clearly judgmental & snobbish.

 

[LizzieMaine]

This is a complete joke.
Two people whose pictures were posted in this thread are amazingly creative in acting and would be a gem in any theatre! But because they don't look how you want them to look they're not welcome to be employed by you?
I suppose we see why they're the rich successfull people then eh..

And why exactly would they have a bad attitude beause they dress slightly "edgy"? I think you are the one with the bad attitude for saying that. Someone of you age should know better.

Well, I'll tell you just what I tell the kids I hire: in a service-oriented business, the most important thing is *not* providing an atmosphere of self-expression for the staff. It's providing an atmosphere that's pleasing to the people who spend the money, and that means knowing the market. Our market is primarily well-heeled people over the age of 50 -- they buy the bulk of our tickets, they support our operations, and they pretty much get to dictate the tone of the establishment. If we were in a young college town, it might be different -- but we're not, and that's just how it is.

But that said, I'd have just as much trouble hiring someone who looked like they stepped right out of the pages of Esquire c. 1937 -- if they were so caught up in their "image" that they weren't willing to put on the little red vest and say "sir" and "ma'am" to the customers. In other words, the first thing one has to realize in *any* job is that "It's NOT all about you." And anyone who goes into a job with that attitude will likely be sporting the "unemployed look" themselves before long.

 

[i_am_the_scruff]

LizzeMaine works at a MOVIE theater- she hires concessions & other help around the place. She doesn't hire drama queens and kings, ideally.

Apologies if it is a movie theatre, I wasn't to know. She only say theatre which makes you think of a... theatre. Here, a cinema is a movie theatre. It's only ever called the cinema, or the pictures.

Well, I'll tell you just what I tell the kids I hire: in a service-oriented business, the most important thing is *not* providing an atmosphere of self-expression for the staff. It's providing an atmosphere that's pleasing to the people who spend the money, and that means knowing the market. Our market is primarily well-heeled people over the age of 50 -- they buy the bulk of our tickets, they support our operations, and they pretty much get to dictate the tone of the establishment. If we were in a young college town, it might be different -- but we're not, and that's just how it is.

But that said, I'd have just as much trouble hiring someone who looked like they stepped right out of the pages of Esquire c. 1937 -- if they were so caught up in their "image" that they weren't willing to put on the little red vest and say "sir" and "ma'am" to the customers. In other words, the first thing one has to realize in *any* job is that "It's NOT all about you." And anyone who goes into a job with that attitude will likely be sporting the "unemployed look" themselves before long.

Right, I see. Thanks for clearing up that it's not just people who you think look "rebel" that are excluded from jobs at your workplace, BUT if there's a uniform then why does it matter how they dress in their spare time? They all look the same one that red vest comes on.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Right, I see. Thanks for clearing up that it's not just people who you think look "rebel" that are excluded from jobs at your workplace, BUT if there's a uniform then why does it matter how they dress in their spare time? They all look the same one that red vest comes on.

It's more the attitude that goes with the look that sends up a red flag for me -- if you dress like a rebel, don't be surprised if people take you for one, and the one thing I don't need is rebels, kids who might smart off to some friend of the owner who would take offense. And any kid who comes to a job interview thinking it's important to show how rebellious they are is pretty much telling me they aren't really interested in the job.

We old folks figure these things out, often thru sad experience in our own feckless youth.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

See....here is the thing.

Each of us is free to do all this judging for our real lives as we see fit.

No two ways about that.

But what -good- does it do, what purpose does it serve, for us, to sit here bemoaning other peoples taste, style, and the theoretical personality trait correlations that -might- accompany their look?

Is this helping us to be a good example of neatly dressed people? Or is the attitude behind threads such as this, simply one of 'wow lets all commiserate so we can feel like we are -better- since we don't do that'

I would much rather have this place, discuss the good things that we share, the interests that we have...and in a positive way become an example of what you all think everyone else lacks.

Instead, threads like this just promote the 'We are cool and your not' thing which would not -inspire- a single person to dress nicer. Because seriously, would anyone want to dress 'our way', based on the attitudes we seem to fall back here on as our "right as well dressed folks to criticize everyone'.

If we are honestly confident and happy about how we dress, it should not matter to us how others dress. It is only when we need to feel better or superior about the choice, that we let the rest creep in.

The only way more people will catch on and dress nicer, is if -nice- people provide a great example. Just dressing well, does not provide that example, if people can see the attitude behind that dressing well stinks.

The Fedora Lounge should be the good encouraging example of things, not the negative talking, people bashing place.

Lead by example, not by complaining.

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

Wait, can I still complain when people wear sweats or pajamas out in public? Because I really still want to do that.

 

[carter]

Just checking in for a daily dose of angst.

I think you are taking this too seriously.

I still agree.

The Fedora Lounge should be the good encouraging example of things, not the negative talking, people bashing place.

Lead by example, not by complaining.

AMEN!

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Wait, can I still complain when people wear sweats or pajamas out in public? Because I really still want to do that.

In private sure.....

I just see very little reason to start threads that exist just to -knock- other folks......

I just see there being a million -positive- things we all here have to talk about -besides- that sort of thing.

We are a group of 10,000 people....who could be a force in helping others up their fashion stakes.....instead of a group that spends their energy knocking those people instead.

[huh]


-be- the change you want to see in the world......comes to mind

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

In private sure.....

I just see very little reason to start threads that exist just to -knock- other folks......

It's a deal!

 

[mister7]

A fine example of MK's style from the Golden Age!

I like being clean shaven, but conversley only get my hair cut about once a year. So MK's knocking those with wild hair and praising those well groomed while sporting facial hair himself struck me as a conundrum.

But the actors pictures he posted got to thinking, did the pencil thin mustache really meet my definition of facial hair? Of course his examples look immaculate! So was trying to think of someone with an actual beard that I also thought of as an example of classic style.

Even though many of his roles involved him being clean shaven I realized my mental picture of Mr. Welles always has a beard! And he is one of those folks who are the very definition of elegent in my mind.

One of the reasons I have given this so much thought concerns the Governor of my state, and recent presidential candidate, Bill Richardson. Governor Richardson likes to grow a beard, but when he is on the national stage, shaves it off.

He shaved it during his presidential run, let it grow back after it was clear he was not going to succeed, and has now shaved it again since President-elect Obama has named him Secretary of Commerce.

It reminds me of the story of Jimmy the Greeks initial rise to prominence picking Truman over Dewey on the strength of his sister telling him women didn't like facial hair.

Is this still true? Was it true then? Opinions!

Me, I'd be rolling around in the woods right this minute sporting my unkempt hair in loose fitting ratty clothes,

except for the fact that I'm rocking this new look right now.

So I'll just stick with warm-up pants and a cast for now.
I still shave every day though, I would hate to have someone who didn't know me think I was a bum!

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

Um, gross.

 

[KeyGrip]

Jeez Mr7, are those staples? Take it easy, man.

 

[Martinis at 8]

LMAO! Very funny Mr7 lol

 

[mister7]

That's the common garment for real adventures, scar tissue!
Some guys have their own tailors but I've always managed to get by with off the rack clothes and an orthopedic surgeon to make me fit in them.

Hump? What hump?

edit: thanks Martini!

 

[Foofoogal]

I for one am
I feel lately like I have somehow stepped off of planet earth and onto some other planet.
I think the jest of it for me is there is a place and time for everything.
While I am accustomed to being around virtually every kind of person in my own family that is huuuugggeeee I am quite concerned about the younger generation to tell the truth.
While person A may find it delightful to wear a clown suit and be appauled if someone judges them it is just flat going to happen.
If the younger have not been taught appropriate mores, dress etc. I guess they cannot comprehend it. Even this statement will be seen as harsh I think. I think though it is kinder and more vintage to try to help the younger understand why they may of not got that job. What help is it to agree with their naivete as I see it? Doesn't pay the bills any way you look at it. Yes, they may find a very trendy office or restaurant or something but not the norm.
I have discovered less than great men in 3 piece suits and great people in young dress if I may say so.
I do hope FL is a place that we can understand and hear others viewpoints.
Dress in one area even in the USA would not look right in another place in the USA even. We have to understand this.
Neatness is not something that cannot be understood. This is reality.
Generations of kids have figured that out sooner or later when they need a job.
I would not like to see it where anyone wears anything anywhere at all times. It would be nice if we all wore signs stating nice, not so nice, mean as can be or something but not reality again.

To the guy with the stitches. Ouch, keep that clean. Yikes.

 

[Matt Deckard]

I think going around saying certain people look unemployed... well that's odd.

There is no such thing as the unemployed look... there are only different fashions and rarely do they ever denote satus, working or otherwise. People wore trench coats around town during the warm days in California in the 80's looking as though they walked out of Damnation Alley... People go around now wearing stubble and grey sweats... It's all style variations. If I were to measure people up by employment and looks... especially here in California, the unemployed look today is often the guy in the suit going to an interview.