Why!!!! Hipsters!!! Why!!!!!

[casechopper]

Poser is a term many have used. Aren't we all posers, at least temporarily, if we change our style of dress? Eventually a change can become ones own style but during a transition one is a poser, or a tryhard.It's a term that is used to ridicule those that are trying something different. Should we all stay as we were raised as children? should we let opinionated people tell us that we shouldn't try their style of clothing because they wore it first?

 

[casechopper]

Note on PBR. I drink it occasionally because it's cheap and the taste isn't much different from the more heavily advertised lagers. Lager to me is practically a commodity and with so little difference between brands why spend unecessarily. Ales are whole different ballgame though.

 

[Shangas]

I'd say the difference is that we do it because we feel a connection with history (at least, that's why I do the things I do).

I'd say that hipsters do it just to be 'different' and 'cool' and 'out there'.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I don't even think of Blue Ribbon as a cheap beer. It's 18.99 a 30 pack here. I can buy Hamm's for 10.99 a 30 pack.

Back in the 1960s, my dad sold Pabst Blue Ribbon to country taverns and groceries in rural southern Wisconsin, by the way. It was a decidedly downmarket product back then. I'll admit to getting a chuckle out of today's youngsters adopting it as some sort of tribal identity marker. At least that's what I think they're doing. I mean, it isn't the only cheap beer. And some is cheaper yet.

Precisely. It's great to dress, act, be whatever you want. Individuality is a wonderful thing. It just bothers me when there's no substance behind it. In the case of the hipster, it's some sort of weird anti-substance, almost coming off as mockery.

I'd say the difference is that we do it because we feel a connection with history (at least, that's why I do the things I do).

I'd say that hipsters do it just to be 'different' and 'cool' and 'out there'.

 

[tonyb]

I don't even think of Blue Ribbon as a cheap beer. It's 18.99 a 30 pack here. I can buy Hamm's for 10.99 a 30 pack.


Guess it's been awhile since I've bought beer. Damn doctors.

Is the "hip factor" influencing the price? Hamm's was the Old Man's primary competition back in his Pabst-selling days. Prices were comparable then, I think, although I couldn't swear to it.

 

[tonyb]

I'd say the difference is that we do it because we feel a connection with history (at least, that's why I do the things I do).

I'd say that hipsters do it just to be 'different' and 'cool' and 'out there'.

You're assuming a lot, aren't you?

Put the shoe on the other foot. What do you suppose your appearance says to people in general? Might many of them consider it "different" and "out there," if not quite "cool"? Some might wonder just who this young man thinks he is, Philip Marlowe?

That would be unfair of those people, and probably inaccurate, but no more so in than what you seem to be assuming about "hipsters."

 

[Shangas]

Tony, if we accept hipsters as being shallow, for want of a better word, non-mainstream people, who buck the trend and try to make 'things' cool by claiming that they do it for some asinine reason such as 'nobody else does it', or claiming to do something 'before it was retro-cool', then I ask what would separate us from them?

If we accept that as being, or something similar to, a definition thereof, then in some ways, we may be.

But I don't dress the way which I do to 'make a statement' or 'be cool', or try and 'buck the trend' just because I can. I do it because I'm appalled by the overbearing casualness of modern dress. I look to history for inspiration. I prefer a more clean-cut and overall more presentable appearance over jeans, T-shirts, hoodies, sneakers, shorts, singlets, flipflops and zip-up parkers.

I'm interested in the things that I am because I find the histories and the stories behind them fascinating. I don't do it because "oh it's SOOO different and I wanna be different and being different is cool" and all that trash. I don't do it because I have any delusions about the past. I do it out of historical fascination.

I suppose the crux of what I'm trying to say is that I think we as a group and a community, do the things we do, appreciate what we do, and live the manner in which we are, because of a common desire to understand and appreciate history and culture. Not to put on some sort of facade or identification. Yes we're different, of course we are. But our difference is a result of our interests and passions, not out of a desire to purposely BE different just for the sake of going against the popular grain, if you get what I mean.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

That whole trying to be different thing is out there, too. I mean, we're all different, but why scream it from the rooftops? If you're willing to get an entire new wardrobe, because what you had before suddenly became popular, you really have no substance or actual taste, just that anti-taste.

People like us (those who truly care about vintage) often get lumped in with hipsters, and that bothers me, too. If everyone suddenly dressed the same as I did, I wouldn't change my style. I'd probably be happier, because I wouldn't feel like such an odd duck. Prices for fedoras, and vintage-styled clothes could come down, because they'd be produced in larger bulk, and thereby cheaper, and more readily available. Sounds great to me.

It just seems like an empty existence to be in such a hurry to ditch everything you supposedly are, because it became mainstream.

 

[tonyb]

My own assumption is that most of the people being categorized here as "hipsters" are just young people doing what young people tend to do, which is adopt a currently popular style.

I'm annoyed by the smart-ass snark some of these young people (especially the males) are prone to, but I usually take that as a sign of a basically insecure young man whose need to come off as superior is just a mask for his doubts as to his own worth. It's a phase people go through, I suppose. I'm just glad that one of my nieces dumped the young man she was seeing who was taking so long to outgrow it I was fearing he never would. Lordy, but that twerp sure could be annoying.

 

[tonyb]

Again, Shangas, it seems you are projecting quite a bit onto other people.

The only thing my interest in "vintage" (or "old crap," as some might characterize it) says for certain about me is that I like old stuff. And I'm far from alone in that, if the recent escalation in authentic vintage clothing, furnishings, etc. is a reliable indicator. Sure, that's purely anecdotal, but so is just about everything else in this thread.

Sure, I'd rather not lose out on some cool vintage item to a kid in a cloth stingy-brim fedora and pre-worn-out pants. But that would be a clear sign that we have at least some things in common.

Like most discussions of this sort, this one is telling us more about ourselves than the people we are discussing.

 

[Shangas]

My own assumption is that most of the people being categorized here as "hipsters" are just young people doing what young people tend to do, which is adopt a currently popular style.

I absolutely understand that. But what we need to do is to differentiate between those who do it because it's the "in thing" and who'll get bored of it in six months, and those who do it out of historical appreciation and as a lifestyle thing. I'm only 25. I do it because I've had a lifelong love of history. I don't do it because itz so radd, like, y'know? Good god, I'd shoot myself first.

I'm annoyed by the smart-ass snark some of these young people (especially the males) are prone to, but I usually take that as a sign of a basically insecure young man whose need to come off as superior is just a mask for his doubts as to his own worth.

People do these things because they're trying to make some sort of 'identity' for themselves, I suppose. They feel inferior for some reason, be it upbringing, family history, social status/class. The people in that boat bring on their own issues. I would put them in a different group to us.

That whole trying to be different thing is out there, too. I mean, we're all different, but why scream it from the rooftops? If you're willing to get an entire new wardrobe, because what you had before suddenly became popular, you really have no substance or actual taste, just that anti-taste.

Absolutely and of course not. That's what I meant by being shallow. If you do it just to be like everyone else, or JUST to be NOT like everyone else, as the case may be, you don't have any substance or taste. It's weak and speaks of insecurity as Tony suggested. I suggest that we dress and act the way we do out of an appreciation of older styles and values, and not to purposely be different just because we have to "rebel' against the status quo.

It just seems like an empty existence to be in such a hurry to ditch everything you supposedly are, because it became mainstream.

Absolutely. And if I'm honest, that sounds incredibly sad and pathetic.

Tony if you feel like I should leave the thread, I'd rather you just say it. The only reason I joined this discussion is because I've heard the word 'hipster' thrown all over the internet. I came here to try and understand exactly what the hell was going on.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Yep, the mention of "hipster" sure does cause a bit of that there Pavlovian thing in these here parts.

 

[tonyb]

...

Tony if you feel like I should leave the thread, I'd rather you just say it. The only reason I joined this discussion is because I've heard the word 'hipster' thrown all over the internet. I came here to try and understand exactly what the hell was going on.

I feel nothing of the sort, Shangas. And besides, even if I did, it wouldn't be my place to say it. I respect your right to express your views on this matter, no matter that I don't necessarily agree. And I like to think that I'm not so ill-mannered as to effectively tell someone who means me no harm to just clam up.

Please keep in mind that you have offered some unflattering views of a class of people we are calling, for the sake of this discussion, "hipsters." You certainly aren't the only one. As I said in my previous post, all these assessments tell us more about ourselves than the people we are discussing.

Glass houses, and all that.

 

[tonyb]

Yep, the mention of "hipster" sure does cause a bit of that there Pavlovian thing in these here parts.

..

It shore do.

Where'd you get the pitcher of the hippie?

 

[Shangas]

I feel nothing of the sort, Shangas. And besides, even if I did, it wouldn't be my place to say it. I respect your right to express your views on this matter, no matter that I don't necessarily agree. And I like to think that I'm not so ill-mannered as to effectively tell someone who means me no harm to just clam up.

Please keep in mind that you have offered some unflattering views of a class of people we are calling, for the sake of this discussion, "hipsters." You certainly aren't the only one. As I said in my previous post, all these assessments tell us more about ourselves than the people we are discussing.

Glass houses, and all that.

I appreciate that. And perhaps I have, but only because I'm trying to differentiate, if possible, us from them, and to try and understand what makes us, 'us', and them 'them', so to speak. I've read other 'hipster' threads here before (as VCB suggests, there have been others here in the past, I remember at least two) and they always seem to stir things up.

 

[Pompidou]

The "them" is fairly easy to define - the definition is all over the Internet. The "us" is a whole different matter. We range from hating the present to liking the past, from single niche hobbyists to historians to veritable living artifacts. There is no "us". Or, at the very least, no "us" that falls into the easy ruleset of the "them". That some of the "us" are the "them" makes it even trickier. It's probably easier to define "us" by singling out the names of those who you'd like to define "us" as.

 

[tonyb]

There is often an assumption around here that there is something beyond an interest in old stuff that makes "us" us. I wonder if that might explain the tendency to differentiate us from "them."

If a "hipster" and I are both interested in some item of furniture at a thrift store, say, I would take it as a sign of commonality rather than difference. I'd feel the same way if it were the lady from the garden club.

I've liked old stuff for as long as I can remember, although my specific interests have changed over the years. In recent years I've developed what many people of my age have, which is a longing for the trappings of my now-distant youth. I don't live in a museum, but most of the furnishings here date from the 1930s through the early 1970s. (You oughta see the groovy early-'70s cylindrical Pioneer omnidirectional "end table" stereo speakers I scored just yesterday! Wood lattice grilles! Walnut veneer tops!) Part of the reason I've outfitted the house this way is because the structure dates from 1993 (it could just as well have been built in 1963) and has an open-concept floor plan, so at least that part of the house kinda begs for that treatment; and it's partly because it brings me some sense of peace and satisfaction to gaze upon my somewhat idealized version of the place I wish I had had back when I was a youngster.

As it turns out, people a generation or two behind me are into that stuff, too. Or so my vintage-dealer acquaintances tell me. Are they "hipsters"? Depends on who you ask, I suppose.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think the current Japanese workwear stuff is pretty damn cool, sans the ability of any blue collar worker to buy any of it. It's so insanely expensive that even white collar folks struggle with the prices. It's a shame too as it's incredible gear. I think they also respect it's heritage. So to me, it's cool and they seem cool too. Just crazy expensive.

Me, I couldn't care less what the Japanese themselves do or wear, since I'm neither Japanese nor do I live in Japan. But I do think the idea of taking "workwear" and turning into some high-end boutique parody of itself for the sake of fashion is the height of ridiculousness, and folks will have to pardon me if I find the idea of somebody spending hundreds of dollars for a pair of dungarees or overalls or a jacket just so they can look "authentic" to be utterly absurd.

I have a pair of actual hickory-stripe workers' overalls I wear to work on my car or do greasy chores around the theatre, and I'll sell them to the first bidder right here on the Lounge for $1500. Real stains, real holes, real sweat on them -- even a couple of small bloodstains. Now that's authentic.

 

[casechopper]

I brought up the japanese workwear trend to question the ironic nature of wearing workwear. I doubt anyone Is spending the kind of money they are to actually do dirty work. They do appreciate the origins of the clothing and the style it has.
We all have things that we do that others find ridiculous. I'm sure there are some things that you do LizzieMaine that other people find ridiculous. You have your reasons for your lifestyle and they have their reasons for theirs.

 

[LizzieMaine]

We all have things that we do that others find ridiculous. I'm sure there are some things that you do LizzieMaine that other people find ridiculous. You have your reasons for your lifestyle and they have their reasons for theirs.

No doubt. The difference between them and me is that what they think is utterly irrelevant to me -- they aren't a part of the culture or the world I was raised in, and I owe them no explanation and I make them no defense. The "hipsters" I've encountered, on the other hand, seem unusually concerned with what others think of them -- they must wear the right clothes, listen to the right music, eat the right food, express the right beliefs. They have every right to do that, blah blah blah, but it's the absolute antithesis of any kind of "authenticity."

Further, they need to understand and accept that there are people who will find many of the attitudes they express to be patronizing, demeaning, and offensive -- and that such people have *every right* to react that way.