Why!!!! Hipsters!!! Why!!!!!

[sheeplady]

To be honest, I don't get the same reading from that picture. If I lived within viewing distance, I would have watched too- I would have taken a chair out and watched in horror. I know people who did that in NY. It was mostly done in horror. We don't have all this amateur footage because people were mocking what was happened- they were horrified and pulled out their recording devices to capture something that they couldn't comprehend. When 9/11 happened, I went home after work and turned on the TV, sat down next to my bed on the floor about 3 feet from the TV (I lived in a studio) and didn't move for about 7 hours until the phone rang. I didn't really cry, I didn't put my head down, I was just too shocked and horrified so I just stared. I know plenty of people who had the same absolute reaction. The two people sitting/ squatting and facing Manhattan are taking a pose I often take in worry- elbows on my knees. I read a lot of tension in the picture.

There are plenty of pictures from 9/11 that are absolutely weird. When the first plane hit, there were plenty of tourists that caught the gaping hole in photographs. I can remember them showing on the news a snapshot of a pregnant woman standing- smiling but her eyes had a worried look- with the towers in the background and the newly created hole clearly visible. When 9/11 happened, a lot of us were just stunned. We thought it was an accident at first- until the second plane hit. There was a lot of confusion. Heck, there was so much confusion and misunderstanding that people were killed because they were told they had to return to work by the authorities. I'm going to give the people in the photo a pass. People do all sorts of weird crud in grief when they don't know what's going on.

Anybody who remembers that day remembers how incomprehensible it all was.

 

[Undertow]

As yesterday was the 11th anniversary of 9-11, this picture, taken on the day of the tragedy, to me really sums up the whole hipster mentality. Even though two of the subjects of the picture have recently claimed that the whole thing was taken out of context, the body language speaks volumes. The photographer himself thought the picture so highly inappropriate that he didn't publish it until a few years later. Note the relaxed, nonchalant attitude of the "sunbathing" woman and you can well imagine the guy in the orange shirt thinking just how "kewl" the whole thing looks. It makes my blood pressure go up seeing these smug bastards (pardon my language) looking for all the world like they're at one of their rooftop parties while just across the river an unimaginable scene of death and destruction unfolds.

Although I can see where this could be interpreted in an inflammatory way, I remember that day quite clearly and I don't think anyone knew exactly what was going on as the events unfolded. To this day, there are still a load of unanswered and often ignored questions.

One picture with some young kids who appear to be talking doesn't really strike me as ignorant, or bad, or even really offensive. Alot of people were stunned, shocked and uncertain and it appears that these kids weren't any different. [huh]

 

[LizzieMaine]

Those aren't hipsters. There's brakes on that bike.

 

[Yeps]

Those aren't hipsters. There's brakes on that bike.

+1

 

[John in Covina]

Sounds like many of the current vintage clothing shops, and market stalls, in London!

The problem stores are those that are stocked with very carefully curated vintage gear, lovingly collected over years, but collected by a hoarder and left in piles to be eaten away by carpet beetles. Heartbreaking to go into one of those places … No 70s crud to distract the beetles, just piles and piles of 30s and 40s and earlier stuff. (Read: Midwest)

You can count on places to staple the price tage through the fur felt body of a fedora.

 

[John in Covina]

As yesterday was the 11th anniversary of 9-11, this picture, taken on the day of the tragedy, to me really sums up the whole hipster mentality. Even though two of the subjects of the picture have recently claimed that the whole thing was taken out of context, the body language speaks volumes. The photographer himself thought the picture so highly inappropriate that he didn't publish it until a few years later. Note the relaxed, nonchalant attitude of the "sunbathing" woman and you can well imagine the guy in the orange shirt thinking just how "kewl" the whole thing looks. It makes my blood pressure go up seeing these smug bastards (pardon my language) looking for all the world like they're at one of their rooftop parties while just across the river an unimaginable scene of death and destruction unfolds.

The photo may be out of context, but it is hard not to see a detatched relationship, there was a very "unreal" quality to that day and people react differently to disaster. Often people are unable to interpret what is happening. There were reports of people that were escaping the fires after the Great San Francisco earthquake of 1906 carrying all sorts of outlandish items, proof that disaster preparedness is also a state of mind.

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

That picture looks like something someone would Photoshop. Note that I don't see any discontinuity proving that it is, but ... I think it's just too off the wall. On the other hand, I lived in Wichita KS at the time, and after the second plane hit the other tower, and the casualty reports started coming it things actually looked better and better. The ORIGINAL estimate was that 50,000 people would have died in both towers, so the eventual count was far lower. 50,000 assuming that both towers were full and nobody got out I guess. I'm saying that because the people in the picture don't look all that upset.

Later

 

[sheeplady]

Hi

That picture looks like something someone would Photoshop. Note that I don't see any discontinuity proving that it is, but ... I think it's just too off the wall. On the other hand, I lived in Wichita KS at the time, and after the second plane hit the other tower, and the casualty reports started coming it things actually looked better and better. The ORIGINAL estimate was that 50,000 people would have died in both towers, so the eventual count was far lower. 50,000 assuming that both towers were full and nobody got out I guess. I'm saying that because the people in the picture don't look all that upset.

Later

It's totally unclear to me when those photos were taken in terms of the events that were unfolding too- all we see is smoke. And unless you had a radio or a TV (I don't see either in the picture) I can't imagine they had any idea what was going on. Heck, those of us with radios and TVs had no clue.

 

[Flicka]

That picture shows people watching a major event and talking, that's all. It says nothing about context. And even if it did, what does it prove about hipsters? Were there even hipsters in 2001? Even presuming this picture were of happy hipsters watching the event, is it fair to sort of make a whole generation guilty by some sort of far-fetched association?

I don't think so. I really don't think so.

 

[m0nk]

Yeah, I've watched numerous posts since I saw the picture, and I agree 100% with everyone. I think that using the picture as some sort of point alone makes no sense, and to use it as an example of "hipsters" makes even less...

 

[Yeps]

Yeah, I've watched numerous posts since I saw the picture, and I agree 100% with everyone. I think that using the picture as some sort of point alone makes no sense, and to use it as an example of "hipsters" makes even less...

Seconded. Interesting picture though.

 

[sheeplady]

Even presuming this picture were of happy hipsters watching the event, is it fair to sort of make a whole generation guilty by some sort of far-fetched association?

I'm sure there are people who celebrated 9/11. But those are *evil* people (or at the best, some of them could be highly misguided brainwashed people) not hipsters. We're talking about a group of people who have questionable fashion sense, not a a group of people who support or celebrate genocide or mass-murder. Hipsters aren't terrorists.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The people I found repugnant at the time were the ones who immediately jumped onto internet forums and Usenet groups to make jokes about the situation -- and there were people who did this -- and the people whom, while the rubble was still falling, were trying to sell "World Trade Center relics" on eBay. I saved screenshots of several such items as proof of just how utterly degenerate people can be. These kids, whatever they're doing, aren't even in that league.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I don't recall the World Trade Center "relics" on eBay (most likely because they got pulled) but I remember they did put a temporary ban on World Trade Center items, no doubt because of the people trying to cash in on the tragedy.

 

[ButteMT61]

Watched Home Alone 2 with my granddaughter. Lots of scenes with the WTC. Sad, and still hard to believe...and while I'm willing to blame cool coffee on hipsters, I won't go to terrorism.

 

[kiwilrdg]

As I think back about the WTC and Pentagon, I had no idea that the acts themselves were as destructive as they were. I was in the Navy in a meeting with 2 Admirals and several other officers. When the phones started going crazy and we got word that we were under attack it was numbing and we knew everything was changing but it was not until some of my guys that went TAD to the scene came back that I started to realize how severe the loss was. I don't think that the relaxed appearance of the picture that was posted is as extereme as people are saying.

This paragraph is inflamatory and I tried to write it from a neutral stance because the content is on human nature and not who is in which side in a conflict. The mention of people in other countries celebrating after 9-11 being *evil* people may be a bit harsh. The people who I saw on TV celebrating were in an area where they grew up seeing buildings destroyed by bombs every day. It is likely they have no idea that the WTC held as many people as the city they were living in. In seeing the war impacting the country that is associated with fueling their war (I am not saying that is the truth, only the perception) they see that the battle is hitting the people who they think are responsible they see what they think will be an end to the war. It would seem to them like the bombing of Tokyo or Berlin in WWII. As I think about it perhaps it is evil, as any war, justified or not, is still evil. The evil is directed towards the enemy and used to demonize the enemy to allow you to defeat the enemy and still hold your head up at the end, it is a necessary coping tool that is used on both sides. Realizing this is what makes post-traumatic stress such a problem.

The attitude that I see from hipsters looks more self-centered than that. More a case of thinking that the explosion doesn't matter because they didn't have any good places to hang out there so it doesn't matter.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

The attitude that I see from hipsters looks more self-centered than that. More a case of thinking that the explosion doesn't matter because they didn't have any good places to hang out there so it doesn't matter.

That's pretty much what I saw or perceived in that picture: clueless, disconnected self-absorption much akin to the more common occurrence of rubberneckers who snarl up traffic on the freeway whenever there's an accident.

 

[sheeplady]

This paragraph is inflamatory and I tried to write it from a neutral stance because the content is on human nature and not who is in which side in a conflict. The mention of people in other countries celebrating after 9-11 being *evil* people may be a bit harsh.

My comment is the one that said that people who celebrate mass murder and genocide are evil or at best horrifically brainwashed. I said absolutely *nothing* about these people being in other countries, that was your assumption. This is a discussion of hipsters, a phenomenon that seems to be limited to a few countries, not the entire globe.

If you feel that people who celebrate the death of others in mass murder or genocide situations are not brainwashed or evil, then that is your belief, but it is not one I will share for any amount of convincing. I believe strongly that genocide and/or mass-murder of civilians is *never* acceptable. I really don't care about war or scarcity or moral. None of those things make murder of innocents (particularly murder of innocents because of their nationality) right or fair or excusable. It's no difference to me who is doing the genocide or who is doing the celebrating, both are disgusting in my mind.

I have known one person who felt that 9/11 was a big joke, and I do believe that person was an incredibly evil person. This person was bred, born, and raised as a U.S. citizen by U.S. parents on U.S. soil. I'm not going to see his taunting of people who lost family and friends (to their face) as anything different than evil.

 

[kiwilrdg]

It's no difference to me who is doing the genocide or who is doing the celebrating, both are disgusting in my mind.

I agree, in fact many of the people who appear to be celebrating quite likely would agree as well. I was saying that it is often used as a coping mechanism. I have heard some pretty scary things said by people in the US in both directions about recent conflicts.

War is evil and everyone in war needs to find some way to compartmentalize their thoughts about things that are necessary for war (to avoid remaining evil after the war) so they can deal with their life later. War is not full of glory or goodness. War is evil. People fighting in a war do evil things that go against what they believe in for what they think is the right thing. Nothing is right in war and the world would be a better place if we could stop all war. Civilians and innocents is not really a black and white issue in war so things happen that should not happen and everything that happens good for someone is terrible for someone else. Even an enemy soldier that is killed is likely to have a child at home that will lose a parent. Celebrating a victory is often just a way of dealing with the reality of the situation.

I don't feel that is always the case, celebrating like that without the underlying issues or concern for the losers is evil.

 

[Undertow]

That's pretty much what I saw or perceived in that picture: clueless, disconnected self-absorption much akin to the more common occurrence of rubberneckers who snarl up traffic on the freeway whenever there's an accident.

Now THAT'S where we need a thread - Rubberneckers!

Drive! Stop backing up traffic to see what someone else is doing! If you're not slowing down for safety's sake, hit the gas and cruise right along! Des Moines is so full of rubbernecking geeks I stopped taking the aux. interstate.